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gungo wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:index options are still options

Technically, yes. But we all know that Indexes will be removed from Matched Play at some point in the future.

Coh Magnussen wrote:Quick question -- I keep seeing "mixed clan" detachments. What effect does having a homogenous clanned detachment have? What effect does having a mixed clan detachment have?

Having a single clan detachment means you benefit from a Kultur. Mixed clan (other than Flash Gitz) means no Kultur. It's the same as any other faction with a codex now, you want to isolate your _{to gain extra special rules.}

Once again index was just updated with a big faq.
There are to many GW models where the rules are only available in the index.
They literally clarified by the rules team how to use the index recently.
Once sisters, gene cults, inquisitors/assassins/agents of imperium/ khorne and all the still made models have codex rules I expect the index to go power level only that’s not happening until chapter approved 2019 and frankly at that point9th edition can’t be far off.

I have no doubt the index will be completely fine throughout 2019. Which is long time for Gw.

i hope 9th is longer than that, we are just over a year in, and sister of battle not be getting thier official codex until sometime last year. it would be a dick move to be liek yea... so we just released codexii for many factions and here is a new edition. That is unless they pull a 6th and just tweek it a bit, and codexes stay the same. still i highly doubt we get a new edition for several years especially with how popular 8th is.

as for the index only units and upgrades I will be sad if they remove them. I still liek to run my custom made rokkit buggies, they are nto the best unit out there but I liek the models enough to still bring a squad of 3.

Bryten wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:

Bryten wrote:
The big risk with this is that if the terrain is not in your favour and you lose first the bustas will be focused and killed easily I think.

Does this situation warrant giving up a killy warlord trait in favor of Kunnin' but Brutal, or are the killy traits just too killy to not take?

I am not sure I know what you mean. What does the warlord trait have to do with bustas?

With it you can put bustas in most killy spot but if you go 2nd reposition bustas somewhere safe and use da jump. Without trait you need to either risk them being targeted or always put them behind LOS blocking terrain which means no da jump on anywhere else and potentially failing to cast it(especially as you need orks to get bonus to casting so unless you have like boyz squad babysitting hard to get more than +1 for more reliable casting).

I love kunning but brutal. I rarely want my warlord fighting anyway as that's easy slay the warlord for enemy as ork characters are rather soft

Bryten wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:

Bryten wrote:
The big risk with this is that if the terrain is not in your favour and you lose first the bustas will be focused and killed easily I think.

Does this situation warrant giving up a killy warlord trait in favor of Kunnin' but Brutal, or are the killy traits just too killy to not take?

I am not sure I know what you mean. What does the warlord trait have to do with bustas?

If I'm not mistaken, it lets you relocate your warlord plus d3 units after it's decided who goes first (so if you guessed wrong, you can relocate them into or out of LOS, either to protect them from turn-1 shooting or enable them to have LOS to a target if you go first). I guess you've got to advance on turn 1 to get within 24" anyways though so it might not buy you much. I was thinking it might let you shoot turn 1 without the penalty, but I forgot they won't be in range. Just ignore me and carry on

 G00fySmiley wrote:

i hope 9th is longer than that, we are just over a year in, and sister of battle not be getting thier official codex until sometime last year. it would be a dick move to be liek yea... so we just released codexii for many factions and here is a new edition. That is unless they pull a 6th and just tweek it a bit, and codexes stay the same. still i highly doubt we get a new edition for several years especially with how popular 8th is.

as for the index only units and upgrades I will be sad if they remove them. I still liek to run my custom made rokkit buggies, they are nto the best unit out there but I liek the models enough to still bring a squad of 3.

There's been 3 editions between 40k and AOS with 2 year gap. But then again odds are codexes stay same. Codexes have been completely invalidated 3 times in GW history. 40k 2->3 and 7-8 and FB 5->6. Other than that codexes have been legal between editions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Coh Magnussen wrote:

Bryten wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:

Bryten wrote:
The big risk with this is that if the terrain is not in your favour and you lose first the bustas will be focused and killed easily I think.

Does this situation warrant giving up a killy warlord trait in favor of Kunnin' but Brutal, or are the killy traits just too killy to not take?

I am not sure I know what you mean. What does the warlord trait have to do with bustas?

If I'm not mistaken, it lets you relocate your warlord plus d3 units after it's decided who goes first (so if you guessed wrong, you can relocate them into or out of LOS, either to protect them from turn-1 shooting or enable them to have LOS to a target if you go first). I guess you've got to advance on turn 1 to get within 24" anyways though so it might not buy you much. I was thinking it might let you shoot turn 1 without the penalty, but I forgot they won't be in range. Just ignore me and carry on

Tank bustas move and shoot without penalty unless they advance and then you use ddd.

However does allow you to reposition into/out of safety as needed and of course reposition totally elsewhere if deployment ends up less good for you. 31.5" average range means you aren't covering everything.

You could even use this to push enemy where you want...Put them early up somewhere, enemy puts elsehwere thinking he's safe due to your mistake, then reposition them where you wanted enemy and bustas be anyway!

tneva82 wrote:

Bryten wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:

Bryten wrote:
The big risk with this is that if the terrain is not in your favour and you lose first the bustas will be focused and killed easily I think.

Does this situation warrant giving up a killy warlord trait in favor of Kunnin' but Brutal, or are the killy traits just too killy to not take?

I am not sure I know what you mean. What does the warlord trait have to do with bustas?

With it you can put bustas in most killy spot but if you go 2nd reposition bustas somewhere safe and use da jump. Without trait you need to either risk them being targeted or always put them behind LOS blocking terrain which means no da jump on anywhere else and potentially failing to cast it(especially as you need orks to get bonus to casting so unless you have like boyz squad babysitting hard to get more than +1 for more reliable casting).

I love kunning but brutal. I rarely want my warlord fighting anyway as that's easy slay the warlord for enemy as ork characters are rather soft

Ahh! I always mix that one up with Brutal but kunnin, sorry about that I tend to prefer to use Brutal but kunnin on the warboss to make him more than crazy in cc but as you said that will most likely give warlord slain pts to your opponent.

Decisions decisions...

Kunnin but brutal allows warboss and d3 units to reposition after deployment, before the first battle round.

tneva82 wrote:

Bryten wrote:

Coh Magnussen wrote:

Bryten wrote:
The big risk with this is that if the terrain is not in your favour and you lose first the bustas will be focused and killed easily I think.

Does this situation warrant giving up a killy warlord trait in favor of Kunnin' but Brutal, or are the killy traits just too killy to not take?

I am not sure I know what you mean. What does the warlord trait have to do with bustas?

With it you can put bustas in most killy spot but if you go 2nd reposition bustas somewhere safe and use da jump. Without trait you need to either risk them being targeted or always put them behind LOS blocking terrain which means no da jump on anywhere else and potentially failing to cast it(especially as you need orks to get bonus to casting so unless you have like boyz squad babysitting hard to get more than +1 for more reliable casting).

I love kunning but brutal. I rarely want my warlord fighting anyway as that's easy slay the warlord for enemy as ork characters are rather soft

I've found throughout 8th that I almost always have more drops than my opponents, so I usually just plan multiple spots for whatever lucky unit gets to drop last. It sort of works like KBB light. Great for my army because I love two traits on my suicide boss. Now that he is a smashboss, all the better!

to be fair the previous editions were more of a core rule update than a renovated new game.
8th changes the whole game quite substantially, which is why the index existed and why they are pushing codexes out so fast.

I highly doubt theyre gonna drop 9th ed after all that. They have NEVER pushed out every codex in a single edition before, or even close.

 JimOnMars wrote:

I've found throughout 8th that I almost always have more drops than my opponents, so I usually just plan multiple spots for whatever lucky unit gets to drop last. It sort of works like KBB light. Great for my army because I love two traits on my suicide boss. Now that he is a smashboss, all the better!

True that's one way. Though generally once your gretchins starts to drop positions where bustas can go gets limited especially with their short ranges. Also with more drops he gets +1 so 60% times he goes first. I find ability to hide them out of LOS then valuable. But I don't want to put them out of LOS as standard as that means relying on 6+ cast which is not that nice. You'll periodically fail that one. And means no chance to use da jump on anything else.

Thus I love kunning but brutal

What would you do guys?

I'm playing a 65 power campaign, I've got a Evil Sunz battalion of Weirdboy, Bigmek KFF, 2x30 boyz, 10 gretchlin, 3 deffkoptas, trukk and a vanguard of 2x5 nobz and painboy.

The point is, I've got 9 CP left and need a HQ for the vanguard.

2x5 nobz + painboy + meKFF go trukk, 30 boyz deepstrike, 30 boyz jump, 3 deffkoptas deepstrike, I need something that doesn't footslogg, maybe shokkgun + 2 mek gunz, shokkgun is bad but I need a HQ anyways

 Vineheart01 wrote:
to be fair the previous editions were more of a core rule update than a renovated new game.
8th changes the whole game quite substantially, which is why the index existed and why they are pushing codexes out so fast.

I highly doubt theyre gonna drop 9th ed after all that. They have NEVER pushed out every codex in a single edition before, or even close.

Last statement makes it more likely that 9th is coming soon Can't break that pattern ;-)

But I think FB 6th actually did get to be complete.

So, I'm doing a bit of excel math here on our various warlord traits.

We have four direct-damage warlord traits: Big Killa Boss, Might Is Right, Brutal But Kunnin, and Proper Killy.

BKB only applies vs Vehicle and Monster targets. PK and BBK only apply when charging.

I ran the numbers for the average damage done by a Painboy with Killa Klaw (wanted to have a character who ordinarily hits on 3s in the mix), a Warboss with Killa Klaw, and a Deffkilla Wartrike, and I analyzed them against a few opponents:

A super-nasty character (T6 3++ after a Custode Jetbike)
A standard vehicle (T7 3+)
and an imperial knight (T8 3+)

In almost all circumstances, Brutal But Kunnin provided the biggest boost to damage output.

Might is Right provided a tiny edge over BBK specificially against the invuln-saved character.

Proper Killy brought up second place overall on all characters except the Deffkilla Wartrike.

If you have a combat character, I would advise Brutal But Kunnin as your primary combat trait, unless you are using the Mogroks Finkin Kap and want 2 combat traits, in which case go for Might is Right.

Might is Right does offer an advantage in that it works in second rounds of combat (when you arent charging/charged) but I find that to be somewhat negligible because it is rare to see a situation where the ork character will not either die, or wipe their opponent in 1 round with multiple swings. Or both. Orks is never beaten!

Always ignore Big Killa Boss in every circumstance.

I just hope I actually get an army built before i have to buy another book!

Killa klaw plus Brutal but kunnin also always outperforms standard klaw plus any two traits: the thinking cap does not make a better beats tick.

Geemoney,

Though I will disagree on the mek guns, I do think your list would do better dropping a slew of rokkits off the boyz mobs, and pumping those points into something else. Deathskulls is all about MSU. Having smaller squads (each having a rokkit > one squad with more rokkit shots). Lots of cheap single shooters avail in the codex (mek's, deffkoptas, you could fill the points with). The mek's with index KMB's are particularly nasty, fit in with those squads and add some serious punch. (death skulls again, so basically hitting 56% of the time with the reroll).

What's really crazy, when you add in dakkadakkadakka, it bumps the % to nearly 70% on a single KMB shot with deathskulls.

 greggles wrote:
Geemoney,

Though I will disagree on the mek guns, I do think your list would do better dropping a slew of rokkits off the boyz mobs, and pumping those points into something else. Deathskulls is all about MSU. Having smaller squads (each having a rokkit > one squad with more rokkit shots). Lots of cheap single shooters avail in the codex (mek's, deffkoptas, you could fill the points with). The mek's with index KMB's are particularly nasty, fit in with those squads and add some serious punch. (death skulls again, so basically hitting 56% of the time with the reroll).

What's really crazy, when you add in dakkadakkadakka, it bumps the % to nearly 70% on a single KMB shot with deathskulls.

Mek gunz are gretchlin

Kebabcito wrote:

 greggles wrote:
Geemoney,

Though I will disagree on the mek guns, I do think your list would do better dropping a slew of rokkits off the boyz mobs, and pumping those points into something else. Deathskulls is all about MSU. Having smaller squads (each having a rokkit > one squad with more rokkit shots). Lots of cheap single shooters avail in the codex (mek's, deffkoptas, you could fill the points with). The mek's with index KMB's are particularly nasty, fit in with those squads and add some serious punch. (death skulls again, so basically hitting 56% of the time with the reroll).

What's really crazy, when you add in dakkadakkadakka, it bumps the % to nearly 70% on a single KMB shot with deathskulls.

Mek gunz are gretchlin

I think he was just talking about Kustom Mega Blastas.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

gungo wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

G00fySmiley wrote:index options are still options

Technically, yes. But we all know that Indexes will be removed from Matched Play at some point in the future.

Coh Magnussen wrote:Quick question -- I keep seeing "mixed clan" detachments. What effect does having a homogenous clanned detachment have? What effect does having a mixed clan detachment have?

Having a single clan detachment means you benefit from a Kultur. Mixed clan (other than Flash Gitz) means no Kultur. It's the same as any other faction with a codex now, you want to isolate your _{to gain extra special rules.}

Once again index was just updated with a big faq.
There are to many GW models where the rules are only available in the index.
They literally clarified by the rules team how to use the index recently.
Once sisters, gene cults, inquisitors/assassins/agents of imperium/ khorne and all the still made models have codex rules I expect the index to go power level only that’s not happening until chapter approved 2019 and frankly at that point9th edition can’t be far off.

I have no doubt the index will be completely fine throughout 2019. Which is long time for Gw.

i hope 9th is longer than that, we are just over a year in, and sister of battle not be getting thier official codex until sometime last year. it would be a dick move to be liek yea... so we just released codexii for many factions and here is a new edition. That is unless they pull a 6th and just tweek it a bit, and codexes stay the same. still i highly doubt we get a new edition for several years especially with how popular 8th is.

as for the index only units and upgrades I will be sad if they remove them. I still liek to run my custom made rokkit buggies, they are nto the best unit out there but I liek the models enough to still bring a squad of 3.

8th released June 17th 2017... a 3 year turn around for 9th edition in June 2020 isn’t abnormal.... I don’t think 9th edition will be a shake up... I think we are in the living rulebook phase where the BRB is constantly updated... which leads us to the biggest problem in 8th... we have multiple big FAQs, soon multiple chapter approved, Codexes, individual codex FAQs, index, index FAQs, etc with rules all over the place....some of these FAQs even update the original FAQs. Then we will have new units that exist as dataslate outside Codexes becuase they get released after the codex. This is only 1.5 years into 8th now imagine another 1.5 years of cluttered faq mess... any new edition will be a clean up edition to consolidate this mess. But ya i expect a new rule book in the 3-4 year mark. All the Codexes to stay valid like they usually are but then then they will slowly rerelease updated Codexes... aka time to rerelease space marines codex and make money again!

I’m not to worried about this year rumors suggest genecult next, khorne and slannesh and sisters of battle all this year... and I’m feeling some type of rogue trader/agents of the imperium can’t be far off (maybe and renegades)... in other words a full slate of new army releases.

 Geemoney wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
easy to kill? one of the complaints about them is theyre so durable for the price.
Its not that theyre so tough they cant be hurt like some high save T8 things that shall remain nameless *cough* knights *cough* its that theyre moderately tough for pennies.

A couple things at their durability isnt hard to remove, 10+ is. Thats what ive noticed when i spam walkers/buggies, a few of them go up in smoke pretty quick but then the rest are practically unscathed because by then i had killed what was killing me reliably.

That has not been my experience recently. 3 Helvrins will kill 6 of the 10 mek gunz on the table at 48" I don't know what else to tell you.

Of course, in your list there is no vehicle. All the enemy anti tank goes to the mek gunz. But 31 and 45 points for a mek gun is a steal, T5 and 6W with actualy shooting. It's basically 5 points per wound for Smashas and 7,5 for Traktors. In a list like yours lootas could be tough, in a list like mine (all vehicles and units embarked or deployed by Tellyporta, grots and mek gunz) they always die turn 1, maybe 2 even with Grot Shields.

Aye, talking about the KMB's in the army. Now that they do D6 damage, if you are running deathskulls, try to fit as many as you can. I think my 1500 point list has 12 or so (all with rerolls). Deffkoptas, single meks, deff dreads etc.

When your single mek in the middle of a gretchin mob pops off D6 damage -3 ap shots with triple rerolls, it does some work.

the_scotsman wrote:
Burned Git Bones: Unviable
Hey you know those guys who get giant bonuses to their psychic tests making them already the most reliable psykers in the game except that they perils all the time so they tend to explode? Want to make them do that, but MORE? The only possible use case I can think of for this is trying to get +4 to a Smite, which doesn’t technically work because Smite is not a “power of the waaagh”. Skip it.

I wouldn't say this is unviable at all, especially with the amount of grots being used for different lists. There have been a number of games i've played where my "ork" model count has been quite low. I've used it quite a bit in my last few games, and it's been clutch on several occasions.
It gives the warphead a lot of autonomy, and is very useful to help guarantee that critical da jump smite combo.
At worst I'd say it's situational.

im actually loving Kustom Mega weapons now that theyre D6. I run badmoonz and im finding myself running as many as i can...well that is without sacrificing arms on my dreads of course.

They were so bad before and now theyre great. Probably cursing myself saying this but in 5 games my mork, 3 dreads with 1 kmb, dragsta, and 2 rando meks have yet to roll a 1 after the badmoon reroll too lol. (yup totally just cursed myself with that...)

Im curious though, does the regular ugly as sin kopta GW still sells for some reason have a KMB model or something? All i have are AOBR koptas and i thought the nonAOBR had bigshootas with no options. Kinda curious why it has KMB access yet kanz/babymeks dont.

 r_squared wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Burned Git Bones: Unviable
Hey you know those guys who get giant bonuses to their psychic tests making them already the most reliable psykers in the game except that they perils all the time so they tend to explode? Want to make them do that, but MORE? The only possible use case I can think of for this is trying to get +4 to a Smite, which doesn’t technically work because Smite is not a “power of the waaagh”. Skip it.

I wouldn't say this is unviable at all, especially with the amount of grots being used for different lists. There have been a number of games i've played where my "ork" model count has been quite low. I've used it quite a bit in my last few games, and it's been clutch on several occasions.
It gives the warphead a lot of autonomy, and is very useful to help guarantee that critical da jump smite combo.
At worst I'd say it's situational.

As I note in the review of it, it only grants +1 to power of the waagh, so fit the bones don't help you smite.

So 4 rokkits in the boyz squad cost about the same as 1 defkopta. The boyz squad gives me 4 shots with 1 reroll. Deffkoptas give me 1 shot with 1 reroll. So I could take 12 rokkits or 3 KMB deffkoptas basically. Just in terms of damage potential I think the rokkits will preform better. What I am looking for in this list is high damage potential.

I think you could make an argument for a bunch of 10 man units of boyz with a rokkit and kombi rokkit....

I like the KMB's on the mek's there a couple of them in there.

I think you make a good point there. The mek gunz seemed to survive longer when I was running the battlewagon version of my list. Note that was index pre knights codex

Think it's worth slapping 7 MegaNobz, Nob with Waaagh Banner and 5 Kommandos into a battlewagon? The Kommandos are mainly there to soak emergency disembark deaths.

the_scotsman wrote:

 r_squared wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Burned Git Bones: Unviable
Hey you know those guys who get giant bonuses to their psychic tests making them already the most reliable psykers in the game except that they perils all the time so they tend to explode? Want to make them do that, but MORE? The only possible use case I can think of for this is trying to get +4 to a Smite, which doesn’t technically work because Smite is not a “power of the waaagh”. Skip it.

I wouldn't say this is unviable at all, especially with the amount of grots being used for different lists. There have been a number of games i've played where my "ork" model count has been quite low. I've used it quite a bit in my last few games, and it's been clutch on several occasions.
It gives the warphead a lot of autonomy, and is very useful to help guarantee that critical da jump smite combo.
At worst I'd say it's situational.

As I note in the review of it, it only grants +1 to power of the waagh, so fit the bones don't help you smite.

They certainly help you da jump, allowing you to either jump in, or away as the situation demands. I think you've dismissed the usefulness of this a bit too quickly.

Granted, I was skeptical at first, but I've run it a few times, and it is very handy indeed. It gives flexibility, and it only costs a single cp for an extra gubbinz which you could easily have spent anyway on a cp re-roll on a failed casting. With lower point and model count games, it's worth a thought. In my experience, I feel that its definitely not a straight unviable.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Think it's worth slapping 7 MegaNobz, Nob with Waaagh Banner and 5 Kommandos into a battlewagon? The Kommandos are mainly there to soak emergency disembark deaths.

Nah da jump 10 meganobz instead. Tried it Saturday with evil sunz, it rocks. The banner is too hard to reliably bring close honestly. 350 points which are a great pain to remove, unless opponent has tons of dark reaper typer things (if so meganobz become worthless).

They are not a competitive unit though (I own 15, including 11 of the latest kit...) I am sad to say, as hitting on 4+ is terrible for clearing chaff they will land on

 Geemoney wrote:
So 4 rokkits in the boyz squad cost about the same as 1 defkopta. The boyz squad gives me 4 shots with 1 reroll. Deffkoptas give me 1 shot with 1 reroll.

You get 2 shots with the kopta.

Also, the kopta is one of the few units we have that has a chance of sniping. fly up to the character and pray. Perfect for your Deathskulls...probably even better as suns.

Pretty much any spot on the board can be reached by turn 2, if it lives that long.

What are the best solutions for removing a small screen before we Da Jump on turn 1?

I got a psyker spell, burna bomma bomm, Kopta bomb

What would you choose? I am talking about removing 5 scouts in my movement or pyshic phase.

on note of the banner, only reason i dont use it is the same reason i have issues with painboy/bosses on the assault: since theres no rule for a character to "join the charge" like there is for "join the unit that GOT charged" its super easy for them to fail the charge and leave the boyz alone.

Really, really wish if a unit within 3" charged, the character can follow.