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 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

"Then there are better ways to get them up the board"
Like what? Rhinos are useful but their speed is limited and they can be shot and killed. Throw expensive units into a Rhino and the Rhino wont last long.

". . Hellblasters . . ."
Would you rather have 2w, or a 3++?

 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm thinking Pods may be useful again with the prospect of 2 5man Command Squads, w/Storm Shields and Plasma.

Pods do have a very important bonus over other Deep Strike options, in that only the Pod can be Forewarned/Auspex Scanned against. The units inside are un-interceptable.

Amazing what 2 point Storm Shields do.

I would still willingly take a Termite over the Pod due to it actually being a threat after it appears and the 12 dude capacity (get yourself 3×4 dude squads instead or fit in an HQ if you don't have them dropping in for some insane reason), but at least it won't be terrible in that situation.

No other uses for the Pod though, sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

"Then there are better ways to get them up the board"
Like what? Rhinos are useful but their speed is limited and they can be shot and killed. Throw expensive units into a Rhino and the Rhino wont last long.

". . Hellblasters . . ."
Would you rather have 2w, or a 3++?

At the new price point of Storm Shields? The 3++, no questions asked.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm thinking Pods may be useful again with the prospect of 2 5man Command Squads, w/Storm Shields and Plasma.

Pods do have a very important bonus over other Deep Strike options, in that only the Pod can be Forewarned/Auspex Scanned against. The units inside are un-interceptable.

Amazing what 2 point Storm Shields do.

I would still willingly take a Termite over the Pod due to it actually being a threat after it appears and the 12 dude capacity (get yourself 3×4 dude squads instead or fit in an HQ if you don't have them dropping in for some insane reason), but at least it won't be terrible in that situation.

No other uses for the Pod though, sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

"Then there are better ways to get them up the board"
Like what? Rhinos are useful but their speed is limited and they can be shot and killed. Throw expensive units into a Rhino and the Rhino wont last long.

". . Hellblasters . . ."
Would you rather have 2w, or a 3++?

At the new price point of Storm Shields? The 3++, no questions asked.

The 2point. 3++ is bonkers and seems to throw a whole bunch of the internal balance out the window. I've had some old rhino doors that have been waiting years for a conversion opportunity, so I guess that's finally happening.

The termite is dope, but even if I bought the model I'd give it to my Chaos army anyways. Pods are built and painted, so they might make a comeback.

Honestly, Pods would be worth it if they allowed units to disembark ignoring the 9" disembark penalty. Melta can now get in double tap range. flamers get WAY better with effective delivery methods. Large squads of ASM/VV can actually get stuck in and do damage (instead of having to make 9" charges).

It basically would allow marines to REALLY punish poor screening and board positioning by dropping whats needed where it is needed (which always lined up with my head canon as marines being shock troops). Screens are going to punish these sort of plays, but everything should have a counter.

Coming t2 earliest, more access to ds without, all ds pinpoint accuracy coupled with no melta range(before big part of pod was accuracy delivering melta's) and expensive. Oh and aura's making gunlines optimal

Crimson wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

What units want to be close, but outside 9” and is worth spending the points on a pod?

Hellblasters...

If there was an(inexpensive)way to get them up the board I would love it. it really needs to be in the 20ish points range or a piece of wargear.

Pretty good ideas you have here! I personally like the idea as bought wargear. But then again many deep strike stratagems are activated with CPs so I don't understand why shouldn't marines have similar system also.

As a larger concept, it's weird why they removed the scatter, i.e. randomness, from deep strike, but at the same time many other random effects in the system were retained. Scattering of course was something people commonly argued about, and where people blatantly would 'interpret' the scatter direction in their own favour, be it unintended or not.
Meanwhile it's really weird future where pinpoint teleporting and targeting is more accurate than what troops can judge their sprinting distance. Yeah, we are talking about rules and this is 'fluff' aspect, but the rules are full of mechanics based on fluff. This 8th ed 40k in general is really weird combination of archaic carryover rules from earlier editions, fluff considerations and some fresh ideas and streamlining.

Another point about deep strike rules is they have been hard limited to 9" distance from enemy. I don't think there is any real justification why this distance should definitely be limited to outside 9". If drop pods or assault marines could do 6" inches, or drop pods 9" + disembark as far from the vehicle as allowed, leading to essentially around 6" as some of you suggested already.
If these specific unit rules turned out to be too powerful one could adjust the point costs to more appropriate level. Or make every deep strike rule either a stratagem or bought wargear option in general.

You would go a long way towards fixing Terminators of all stripes by letting anything with the Terminator keyword Deep Strike at 6” rather than 9”. Hell if you also let the same units halve all damage rounding up then you might see competitive Terminators for the first time in what, twenty years?

Too many embarrassing incidents when people forgot to hitch their trousers up good and snug, and their bowels dropped to their ankles when they hit.

Drop pods are the only models in my entire collection that I've bought only for gaming purpose since I found them ugly but very powerful rules wise in 7th.

What happened to them? SM of all kinds can deep strike in a thousand ways, they can't carry some units that may benefit from them anymore like wulfen, they can't arrive in flamers or melta ranges. They also cost twice the points (three times the points at index times) than they used to be.

 Blackie wrote:
Drop pods are the only models in my entire collection that I've bought only for gaming purpose since I found them ugly but very powerful rules wise in 7th.

What happened to them? SM of all kinds can deep strike in a thousand ways, they can't carry some units that may benefit from them anymore like wulfen, they can't arrive in flamers or melta ranges. They also cost twice the points (three times the points at index times) than they used to be.

When Flesh Terrors came out in 7th, it was worded that ALL imperial units can use those Drop Pods... I bought 7 right away for my SoB army, and 1 month later they said "NO NO NO" b.c Admech/Skitari broke the game so badly it nerfed it for everyone...... WTF does a SoB player need 7 drop pods for, i'm just happy they all where used and go for 10-20$ each.

 Blackie wrote:
Drop pods are the only models in my entire collection that I've bought only for gaming purpose since I found them ugly but very powerful rules wise in 7th.

What happened to them? SM of all kinds can deep strike in a thousand ways, they can't carry some units that may benefit from them anymore like wulfen, they can't arrive in flamers or melta ranges. They also cost twice the points (three times the points at index times) than they used to be.

I think designers still consider MEQs to be durable unit, and thus consider drop pod'ed Melta Devastators to be 'Moral Hazard' for game balance, while in reality most lists can easily remove 10 MEQs a turn if they so choose, so these 'Drop Pod strikes' are kind of one-hit-wonders, without the wonder.

But in all seriousness, the outside 9" deep strike bubble must be due to the melee, they want to make it difficult but possible to charge after the deep strike. So the range needs to be 9", which then screws over meltaguns and flamers. Very silly considering meltaguns cost premium because of their effectiveness within 6" of target, while many stacked heavy weapons (lascannons, autocannons, similar etc.) get point cost discounts if they are twin- or quad-stacked etc. because they are more 'restrictive'. Comparing the melta point costs with stacked heavy weapons it's not hard to miss the logical dissonance: With melta the intended short range effectiveness is a 'Bonus' that needs to be priced premium, while with stacked heavy weapons the stacking is considered 'Negative' (while inherently being able to stack several weapons instead of just single is definitely a bonus, many units would like to take more weapons but are restricted by arbitrary rules) and therefore needs a price decrease. These point cost 'considerations' are arbitrary and inconsistent with each other, but broadly favor long range shooting over short range invariably.

Well one of the CA play tests on FtN sounded like they dont understand the power level of units... you should listen to it (the one talking about SoB that was last week i think).

He was trying to argue that Tac armies are just as good and viable as Primaris b.c of the options, the main guy cut him off and was like "No, we are no going down this road neither are good" lol or something to that effect, it was a week ago. but i got the impression they really play at a lower tier level when play testing.


With the CA points like you said Ghorgul about Twin weapons, etc.. and that Pod cast, it is VERY clear they over value units with high options compare to dedicated roles.

I know they are a bit expensive in points but what happend to the classic drop pod insertion of space marines? Are they just so out of the meats now that they are not considered at all? Are they any good in friendly games or are they just not worth it at all?

Well. GW dopped the (pod-)ball.

Now after you are done stabbing me for my terrible pun, they are as you said too expensive, the content itself is too expensive 90% of the time, and as Amishprn said, the overvaluation of dropable content leads to a lack of potential targets to pod.

Ergo: it itself is bad and the dropable stuff is also mostly bad, and or does not need a pod.

One of the sad things is that a drop pod assault by Orks on rynn's world was featured on one of the very first miniature box sets for 40k, through bullneck's space ork raiders.

Also you could buy that squad set for less than a lot of single figures cost today. Excuse me, I need to go cry for a while...

You guys should be happy you don't have to take them. At least the cost of having them isn't build in to the cost of all of your models. Would you rather have had 18pts tacticals, just because a drop pod is free or 20-30pts per squad?

Except DS doesn't add up all that much if at all. 1 pts at most

I'd consider 50 point Drop pods for my Primaris Ultramarines if they were an option. Certainly for my Hblasters. Being able to land 10 at 15 inches and use the Scions of Guilliman Stratagem and high power to reduce some hard spots would be worth it.

Maybe sternguard for Black Templars. Maybe.

i think I'd probably give them a crack with my DAs for plasma spam veterans. A veteran with plasmagun and stormshield (or combi-plasma, because why not) used to be 34pts a model, now they are 27pts. Granted, you are maxed at 5 per unit but that's somewhat reasonable.

Well if they could carry dreads or wulfen they could be useful in SW armies now that they are 65 pts.

Drop Pods should be super fragile and cheap. Make them T5 W5 4+ save or something and then they can be 30 points. They can't be cheap right now cause at 30 pts with the current profile you could just dump them empty on top of objectives and make the enemy waste anti tank shots to shoot it down(or run over with 2 models)

 Blackie wrote:
Well if they could carry dreads or wulfen they could be useful in SW armies now that they are 65 pts.

I want Wulfen Dreads in a drop pod (I know there's the Lucius pattern but that thing costs 120 so is only worth it to drop a dual-gun Leviathan within 18" of whatever poor sod it has decided to reduce to scrap and gore).

Anyway, I was thinking that maybe a WG plasma squad + cheap Lord for the rerolls might be nice. Kit 5 out with combi-plasma and plasma pistol, 4 with Stormbolter/SS (to not break the bank and have some ablative wounds) and give your Lord his own combi-plasma (and maybe a solid melee weapon to dissuade would-be chargers). You basically pay 65 (?) points to save 2 CP (you don't have to use the outflank stratagem), the freedom to deploy wherever you want instead of being restricted to table edges and you are guaranteed to arrive safely (albeit in T2) because you want this glasscannon of a unit to arrive intact. Will cost you about 350-400 points but spitting out 17 overcharged plasma shots every turn in almost-safety is not something to be underestimated. You'll get a guaranteed umm... beta-strike? and your opponent will have to divert firepower to them to prevent his precious tanks and monsters from being reduced to ash. Which in turn allows your choppy stuff to get in charge range relatively safely.

cmspano wrote:
Drop Pods should be super fragile and cheap. Make them T5 W5 4+ save or something and then they can be 30 points. They can't be cheap right now cause at 30 pts with the current profile you could just dump them empty on top of objectives and make the enemy waste anti tank shots to shoot it down(or run over with 2 models)

Or just make it so that they can't hold objectives.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm thinking Pods may be useful again with the prospect of 2 5man Command Squads, w/Storm Shields and Plasma.

Pods do have a very important bonus over other Deep Strike options, in that only the Pod can be Forewarned/Auspex Scanned against. The units inside are un-interceptable.

Amazing what 2 point Storm Shields do.

I would still willingly take a Termite over the Pod due to it actually being a threat after it appears and the 12 dude capacity (get yourself 3×4 dude squads instead or fit in an HQ if you don't have them dropping in for some insane reason), but at least it won't be terrible in that situation.

No other uses for the Pod though, sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

"Then there are better ways to get them up the board"
Like what? Rhinos are useful but their speed is limited and they can be shot and killed. Throw expensive units into a Rhino and the Rhino wont last long.

". . Hellblasters . . ."
Would you rather have 2w, or a 3++?

At the new price point of Storm Shields? The 3++, no questions asked.

The 2point. 3++ is bonkers and seems to throw a whole bunch of the internal balance out the window. I've had some old rhino doors that have been waiting years for a conversion opportunity, so I guess that's finally happening.

The termite is dope, but even if I bought the model I'd give it to my Chaos army anyways. Pods are built and painted, so they might make a comeback.

It's especially nuts when you consider that, at that point, the only thing Primaris are more durable to is D1 weapons without any decent AP. I know that, to AP-2 D1 they're the same durability, which means Primaris only win out vs AP-1 in that particular situation.

Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

Combat shields are now more expensive than stormshields. Honestly if they made them worth 5pts, and decreased the cost of combat shields to 2pts. I think people would be less confused.

That is the most Ludicrous part.

Assault cannons are now more expensive than missile launchers. 2 Lascannons are more expensive than a twin lascannon.

Heavy Plasma Cannons are less expensive than a rocket. (Wait what?)

Relic Blades are now cheaper than two lightning claws...

Tartars are now less expensive with their heavy weapon than a normal terminator squad with a heavy weapon....

Its like someone went through the book started assigning random numbers without any rhyme or reason.

Sternguard are 2pts more expensive than tactical marine.

Its kind of baffling actually how poorly they optimized marine lists.

GW sold enough drop pods in 5th 6th and 7th so it was time for a meta change. honestly i would love thier points to go down or for them to be allowed to ignore the 9 inch rule (with the balance of being unable to assault the turn something landed) being able to drop in turn 1, unload a volly of fire in melta range... that would make them worth the current points, note i am not suggesting turn 1 drop, no min and points drop, rather 1 or the other.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

Combat shields are now more expensive than stormshields. Honestly if they made them worth 5pts, and decreased the cost of combat shields to 2pts. I think people would be less confused.

That is the most Ludicrous part.

Assault cannons are now more expensive than missile launchers. 2 Lascannons are more expensive than a twin lascannon.

Heavy Plasma Cannons are less expensive than a rocket. (Wait what?)

Relic Blades are now cheaper than two lightning claws...

Tartars are now less expensive with their heavy weapon than a normal terminator squad with a heavy weapon....

Its like someone went through the book started assigning random numbers without any rhyme or reason.

Sternguard are 2pts more expensive than tactical marine.

Its kind of baffling actually how poorly they optimized marine lists.

Sternguard are actually 3 points more expensive than a Tactical Marine. Minimum weapon cost is 2 points.

Termites FTW