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Mining guild / aggressive mining unions (lol) could definitely work under the book, it's practically an Adeptus Mining codex

The cult themes are also represented to some extent, with the loyalty and some of the powers, so you could maybe represent aspects of Chaos cultist force, though it would be pushing it a bit I think. Like you said, they already have their own rules, weak or not. I wouldn't have let an opponent run their Necrons as Craftworld Eldar for example, just so he could get a better ruleset for his fighter jets and firepower. You could force this in, but it would not be totally smooth, keeping track of boardstate would be a hassle for your opponents, it would be a lot of bookkeeping, and you will find plenty of people like myself who would rather not play against you for doing that just so that you could have some better rules than the ones already written for your army.

As for Xenos bands: Not a chance. Pretty much every weapon is already Imperial origin, and the ones that aren't are very imperium in flavor and style. They have some claws and biomorphs littered through I guess, but that's much too loose an association. Don't do that.



Especially if you haven't even built the army yet, there's no real reason you have to do this. Making a mining force would work just fine and people would love it. The rest... eh.

 Red Corsair wrote:
See? I wasn't full of it when I was telling you high numbers of acolytes have issues deploying and getting in range from reserve. It comes from experience playing in tournaments.

I already knew that. That's why I rather pick rusted claw for that +1 save against incoming fire next turn. I can get in close combat but not with enough models to make a dent apart from the 'perfect ambush' unit. I think I'am going to try to drop more cheaper Neophytes to protect the characters and might delay some acolytes for another turn with perfect ambush. I really need to decide if I go big and try to assault to get closer or should simply deploy in cover with my characters and take incoming fire and move in next turn + fresh 'perfect ambush' backup. Dropping the handflamer unit with 'lying in wait' also prevents counter attack for the units behind them.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Again the main issues are timing. You have to start coming in on turn 2 or you forfeit too much space, but also because you only have until turn 3. The slight work around to the turn 3 issue is using the strat to move 3 blipped units into underground. You still need the real estate to deploy however.

Having board control is only an issue against specific armies with lots of infantry and I got the tools to deal with that. My main issue is 'having something on the field' so that I don't get killed before my units drop in, but also helps my army. I need to survive and that could be difficult against fast enemy units that get first turn.

 ph34r wrote:
How do we as GSC players feel about the GSC rules (with no tyranids) being used to represent:
-regular bog-standard rebellious mining guilds
-crime organizations with stolen gear
-rebels, heretics, and cults of a xenos but non-tyranid nature
-rebels, heretics, and cults of an unspecified nature
-rebels, heretics, and cults of chaos

I really want to make a fun not-loyalist-imperials army, but using Astra Militarum seems too bog-standard and has too much military-grade gear. Renegades and Heretics is for specifically chaos type factions, and is of course, basically unplayably bad.

On page 37 of the Codex, there is this blurp, that certainly support your idea. I am planning to do this Nurgle/GSC army, or perhaps a more human/Ash Waste ganger/Mad Max Fury Road project - Or maybe a mix of all it.
So I think you should definitely go for it!

Infestation and Plague
The Cult Tenebrous finds itself becoming
the infested rather than the infesters when
their bulk lander is swallowed by a warp
storm that strands them on the outskirts
of Nurgle’s Garden. The cult discovers the
true meaning of parasitism and horror.
Eventually, the Grandfather of Plagues
allows them to emerge into realspace once
more, horrifically changed and ready to
serve their new master’s sickly agendas

 SHUPPET wrote:
As for Xenos bands: Not a chance. Pretty much every weapon is already Imperial origin, and the ones that aren't are very imperium in flavor and style. They have some claws and biomorphs littered through I guess, but that's much too loose an association. Don't do that.

Sorry I was unclear, what I mean to say is humans from the Imperium who have fallen under the sway of [tyranids, other xenos, chaos, etc] in my examples. So, a spooky lovecraftian cult that just happens to not be about Genestealers specifically, for example.

Best way to kit out vultures?

Drdotts wrote:
Best way to kit out vultures?

Is there any loadout besides the punisher cannons? That's the one that seems good to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mellon wrote:Excellent ideas, do it.

And I agree with dracpanzer, show pics! I can see a lot of really cool conversions coming from this.

dracpanzer wrote:Seems like a great idea to me. A chaos cult using a few daemon bits for acolyte conversions. Beastmen heads to sub in on neophyte bodies to get rid of the tyranid look. Lots of possibilities. Have at it, and show pics!

Right now my thought on the sinister force behind the army is "spooky alien undead ghost stuff but not chaos".

Here are some (spoilered to not mess up page formatting) images that evoke a mood I'm going for (by the amazing artist Keith Thompson):


And here's what I've got so far:

Well I know punisher cannons but are you guys running just punishers to make them 160 points or are you taking the missiles and other jazz

Keep em cheap. The base form is enough to clear chaff and that’s their job, use the points to beef up whatever your sending in through the screens instead

 SHUPPET wrote:
Are you saying 10 with demo charge on all 10? There's a few issues I have with that but not least being that it's already not too difficult to screen a big target against them. What are the full 10 adding?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yeah I agree that you have to have some measure of restraint when it comes to reserves. I prioritise board control every list, though I also keep a little something in reserve to come running out when the times right!

I am saying 10 with every member having a demo charge yes. I have been dropping them in on turn 3 unless I have a window on 2. That unit can quire literally just win you the game. It can stretch out very far and you can through all 10 the turn the arrive plus the blasting charges, which can be better then you would expect with rusted claw. It's CP expensive though but it is by far and away are best unit to combine with lying in wait and since it is shooting, it's more consistent. Smaller units work as well, but I find if I am sinking so many CP into it already, I'd rather maximize my splash.

As everything else though, yes screening can and will be a PITA. It's the entire issue with this book. Everything works from reserve and all the reserve tricks use strats, meaning your only using them once a turn. They really should have made perfect ambush a pregame stratagem that you spent on units during deployment even if it meant changing how it worked for balance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shogun wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
See? I wasn't full of it when I was telling you high numbers of acolytes have issues deploying and getting in range from reserve. It comes from experience playing in tournaments.

I already knew that. That's why I rather pick rusted claw for that +1 save against incoming fire next turn. I can get in close combat but not with enough models to make a dent apart from the 'perfect ambush' unit. I think I'am going to try to drop more cheaper Neophytes to protect the characters and might delay some acolytes for another turn with perfect ambush. I really need to decide if I go big and try to assault to get closer or should simply deploy in cover with my characters and take incoming fire and move in next turn + fresh 'perfect ambush' backup. Dropping the handflamer unit with 'lying in wait' also prevents counter attack for the units behind them.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Again the main issues are timing. You have to start coming in on turn 2 or you forfeit too much space, but also because you only have until turn 3. The slight work around to the turn 3 issue is using the strat to move 3 blipped units into underground. You still need the real estate to deploy however.

Having board control is only an issue against specific armies with lots of infantry and I got the tools to deal with that. My main issue is 'having something on the field' so that I don't get killed before my units drop in, but also helps my army. I need to survive and that could be difficult against fast enemy units that get first turn.

Having board control isn't an issue only with horde armies. I can literally screen out the entire table by turn 2 with my dark eldar which is not a horde army. Heck, even with my necrons I can do it thanks to veil of darkness and deceiver starting turn 1. But, that aside, yes your going to struggle reserving large portions of your army. I'd go so far as to say it's the trap of the book. Your better off reserve 2-3 sledge hammer units plus some trick characters if you run them and focus on swarming the table from the get go with cheap fast units and scouts. Our transport, the truck at least, is really cheap and quite fast. They die pretty easily still, but I find they last much longer then the equivalent points in infantry, they also are great for soaking overwatch and being a nuisance when you lock things up.

@Red Corsair are you saying that you’ve been throwing all 10 demo charges at once? I think the strat says you can only use 5 at a time..?

 Reanimator wrote:
@Red Corsair are you saying that you’ve been throwing all 10 demo charges at once? I think the strat says you can only use 5 at a time..?

Laying in wait to be 3" away.
Perfect Ambush to shoot when you come down.
Extra Explosives to throw 5 demo's.

Shooting Phase.
Extra Explosives to throw the remaining 5 demo's
Drive by Demolition for +1 to hit and wound (can't move since DS this turn)

Viola, 10 demo charges in 1 turn.

I stand corrected! Although I had no idea you needed to burn 8cp to do it.

It's expensive but with an alphus nearby your hitting and wounding most things on 2's. For me it generally swings the game in my favor or brings me back from the brink. I've tried twisted helix abberants from anointed throng (2 CP) perfect ambushing (3CP) and fighting twice (3CP) which also costs 8CP and the bikes are more reliable and cheaper. Also don't forget your getting 10D6 demos but also 10d6 blasting charges, with +1 to wound those also can really murder things.

Yeah that's a crapton of firepower. I'd probably consider it, but I run a mix of Tyranids and GSC and with Kraken + Hive Guard I simply don't have 8CP to throw at something like that, in fact I barely even have the CP to do my single Acolyte bomb. With a pure GSC list though, that seems pretty hot. For the reasons you describe is exactly why I prefer Tyranids. They deploy on the field better than GSC, but GSC definitely hotdrops better, and I think a mix of both (and stacking a bunch of psykers!) is what's best at least in my personal opinion.

Ordana wrote:

 Reanimator wrote:
@Red Corsair are you saying that you’ve been throwing all 10 demo charges at once? I think the strat says you can only use 5 at a time..?

Laying in wait to be 3" away.
Perfect Ambush to shoot when you come down.
Extra Explosives to throw 5 demo's.

Shooting Phase.
Extra Explosives to throw the remaining 5 demo's
Drive by Demolition for +1 to hit and wound (can't move since DS this turn)

Viola, 10 demo charges in 1 turn.

Red Corsair wrote:It's expensive but with an alphus nearby your hitting and wounding most things on 2's. For me it generally swings the game in my favor or brings me back from the brink. I've tried twisted helix abberants from anointed throng (2 CP) perfect ambushing (3CP) and fighting twice (3CP) which also costs 8CP and the bikes are more reliable and cheaper. Also don't forget your getting 10D6 demos but also 10d6 blasting charges, with +1 to wound those also can really murder things.

I know Jackals with demos are amazing, did a little mathhammer on them a while back. But what I have been thinking about is whether 1x10 or 2x5 is better. Its the same cp cost to do 2x lying in wait, extra explosives, drive by demo, or for the 10 man, lying in wait, perfect ambush, 2x extra explosives, drive by demo. Opportunity cost of both pa and liw one turn vs liw two turns, so kinda a wash there. So the main tradeoff is getting all the demos into something in a single turn, vs both sets of 5 demos getting the alphus and drive by demo bonuses (the movement phase set otherwise would not). So +2 to hit and +1 to wound, which is nothing to turn your nose up at. I guess also potential for the keler bonus too. What are people’s thoughts?

2x5 is perfectly fine. I just find I get more from the blasting charges as well. After all, it isn't just 10d6 demos, it's also 10d6 blasting charges with that +2 to hit and +1 to wound.

 Red Corsair wrote:
2x5 is perfectly fine. I just find I get more from the blasting charges as well. After all, it isn't just 10d6 demos, it's also 10d6 blasting charges with that +2 to hit and +1 to wound.

Just to be explicit for anyone else reading this, only 5 of the demos and 5 of the blasting charges get the +2/+1 (and potential reroll 1s to hit with keler) because those benefits only work in the shooting phase. But you’re right that 10 BCs even with only half getting buffed is pretty nice still.

Benlisted wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
2x5 is perfectly fine. I just find I get more from the blasting charges as well. After all, it isn't just 10d6 demos, it's also 10d6 blasting charges with that +2 to hit and +1 to wound.

Just to be explicit for anyone else reading this, only 5 of the demos and 5 of the blasting charges get the +2/+1 (and potential reroll 1s to hit with keler) because those benefits only work in the shooting phase. But you’re right that 10 BCs even with only half getting buffed is pretty nice still.

Thats, true and honestly, I think using acolytes with demos might also have merit. You don't get that sweet drive by demo strat but your taking them anyway and demos are so cheap. The list I am currently running/testing fields 6 10 man acolyte units in trucks and IO haven't settled on any gear yet.

I have been looking at the Ambush Marker rules to make sure I had my 'withins' and 'wholly withins' straight and I noticed a couple of things. The first is that if someone has snuck up on you and gotten just outside of the magic 9" away, the first models that you place doesn't have to be more than 9" away from the enemy - every other model in the unit does, but the first is only restricted by distance from the marker. This may just get you charged if you try it - but it is worth knowing.
However, this also means that the first model can also be placed outside of your deployment zone (marker wholly within, but first model just has to be within 1" of that), and if you are on a 32mm base, you can gain a nearly 2" advantage. Unless you are a Goliath truck, in which case your advantage appears to be a significant one... and then you should be able to disembark models.
Thoughts?

 Red Corsair wrote:

Thats, true and honestly, I think using acolytes with demos might also have merit. You don't get that sweet drive by demo strat but your taking them anyway and demos are so cheap. The list I am currently running/testing fields 6 10 man acolyte units in trucks and IO haven't settled on any gear yet.

Try 2 units of 5 with Demolition Charges in a Truck. This allows you to throw 2 charges at a time (or 3 with a demolition cache) without having to drop command points on Extra Explosives.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Thats, true and honestly, I think using acolytes with demos might also have merit. You don't get that sweet drive by demo strat but your taking them anyway and demos are so cheap. The list I am currently running/testing fields 6 10 man acolyte units in trucks and IO haven't settled on any gear yet.

Try 2 units of 5 with Demolition Charges in a Truck. This allows you to throw 2 charges at a time (or 3 with a demolition cache) without having to drop command points on Extra Explosives.

I'll give it a try next outing.

BTW I remember a discussion about the alphus +1 to hit buff effecting passengers in a transport. If true can anyone point to me where/ how I would demonstrate this in the rules/FAQs?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Thats, true and honestly, I think using acolytes with demos might also have merit. You don't get that sweet drive by demo strat but your taking them anyway and demos are so cheap. The list I am currently running/testing fields 6 10 man acolyte units in trucks and IO haven't settled on any gear yet.

Try 2 units of 5 with Demolition Charges in a Truck. This allows you to throw 2 charges at a time (or 3 with a demolition cache) without having to drop command points on Extra Explosives.

I'll give it a try next outing.

BTW I remember a discussion about the alphus +1 to hit buff effecting passengers in a transport. If true can anyone point to me where/ how I would demonstrate this in the rules/FAQs?

Modifiers and penalties that affect the transport affect the occupants as well.

So, a +1 to-hit that affects the Goliath also affects the passengers, if indirectly.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Mining guild / aggressive mining unions (lol) could definitely work under the book, it's practically an Adeptus Mining codex

The cult themes are also represented to some extent, with the loyalty and some of the powers, so you could maybe represent aspects of Chaos cultist force, though it would be pushing it a bit I think. Like you said, they already have their own rules, weak or not. I wouldn't have let an opponent run their Necrons as Craftworld Eldar for example, just so he could get a better ruleset for his fighter jets and firepower. You could force this in, but it would not be totally smooth, keeping track of boardstate would be a hassle for your opponents, it would be a lot of bookkeeping, and you will find plenty of people like myself who would rather not play against you for doing that just so that you could have some better rules than the ones already written for your army.

What list would you recommend I use to make HP Lovecraft: Shadow over Innsmouth: The Army?

Benlisted wrote:....... But you’re right that 10 BCs even with only half getting buffed is pretty nice still.

In a test game I dropped 10 jackals with DC between two custodes jetbike captains with lying in wait and perfect ambush. First I threw 2 DC on captain A and 3 DC on Captain B. I used the jackals on the outside of the unit. After this I could look at how many wounds the captains got and divided the next batch accordingly (5 jackals in the middle in range of both captains). This way I got the most out of my demolition charges. But I think I would rather pick two 5 x jackal units with DC for flexible 'lying in wait' or simply drop them in cover and drive forward next turn and trow them then. Better to use 'perfect ambush' for the assault units.

Red Corsair wrote:....... The list I am currently running/testing fields 6 10 man acolyte units in trucks and IO haven't settled on any gear yet.

How is this list working for you? I'am serious curious because I think the trucks would just blow up and the acolytes are target practice form that point on.

hangnailnz wrote:I have been looking at the Ambush Marker rules to make sure I had my 'withins' and 'wholly withins' straight and I noticed a couple of things. The first is that if someone has snuck up on you and gotten just outside of the magic 9" away, the first models that you place doesn't have to be more than 9" away from the enemy - every other model in the unit does, but the first is only restricted by distance from the marker. This may just get you charged if you try it - but it is worth knowing.
However, this also means that the first model can also be placed outside of your deployment zone (marker wholly within, but first model just has to be within 1" of that), and if you are on a 32mm base, you can gain a nearly 2" advantage. Unless you are a Goliath truck, in which case your advantage appears to be a significant one... and then you should be able to disembark models.
Thoughts?

I think it's not RAI but if you want to play it that way then let your opponent know beforehand.

Strat_N8 wrote:
Try 2 units of 5 with Demolition Charges in a Truck. This allows you to throw 2 charges at a time (or 3 with a demolition cache) without having to drop command points on Extra Explosives.

How do you get close? how do the survive?

So there have been a ton of GSC lists having success at the big ITC tournaments, plus Adepticon in the last few months. Does anyone have access to any of these to share?

40kstats.com shows the top 4 lists (3 GSC in the last few tournaments).

I've recently started Nids and all this GSC success has got me thinking of some combos I could add. Reliably getting a unit of Abberrants or Rock Saw Acolytes into combat would be great. Or a Kelemorph or something to access the GSC psychic tree - so much good stuff!

It’s interesting because there doesn’t seem to be a “one list” yet. Some have flamer bombs, some have rock saw bombs. Some have aberrants. Some have vultures, some have kraken genestealers.

One consistency of course is tons of infantry, specifically acolytes and no vehicles.

Knights and eldar flier spam are still the big kids in the block, On the latter, I have no bloody clue how GS can deal with 3-6 fliers blocking reinforcements coming anywhere outside our own deployment zone.

shogun wrote:

How do you get close? how do the survive?

Threat overload more or less. You put enough vehicles down on the table and the foe runs out of anti-armor to deal with them all. Trucks are fairly fast so getting close isn't too big an issue (generally in range to begin bombing by turn 2) and can use their mobility to stay out of line of sight provided there is sufficient terrain.

Also for the sake of context, I was giving advice to Red Corsair who said he is working on a list featuring 60 Acolytes and 6 trucks. Breaking 10-man units into 5 man units makes them more efficient bomb throwers while embarked on a Goliath due to the way grenades work. Assuming 3 trucks with demo caches and 3 10-strong units with no extra explosives, you can get 6 charges out in one go. If the squads are instead run as 6 5-strong units, that increases to 9 charges in one go. Now the 10-strong unit does get more out of extra explosives, but at that point you are burning command points and still throw 1 less demo charge than the MSU approach.

Gordoape wrote:It’s interesting because there doesn’t seem to be a “one list” yet. Some have flamer bombs, some have rock saw bombs. Some have aberrants. Some have vultures, some have kraken genestealers.

One consistency of course is tons of infantry, specifically acolytes and no vehicles.

Thats because it is a 'glass scalpel' army that relies on different tactics depending on the enemies armies and missions. A minor mistake or unlucky turn can tear the whole army down but the same goes for the enemy player. You cannot really go for the obvious 'one list' with GSC. Also really depends on the tournament/mission setting.

Postulent wrote:Knights and eldar flier spam are still the big kids in the block, On the latter, I have no bloody clue how GS can deal with 3-6 fliers blocking reinforcements coming anywhere outside our own deployment zone.

Fliers are a tough one but also depends on the whole army setup. Craftworld flyers are not great at killing cheap infantry but the drukhari razorwing's are a different matter. Mind controlling a crimson hunter exarch could mean a dead flyer in one go. 5 rusty claw jackals with demolition charge can get a 2+ to hit so even a flyer with lightning reflexes can get killed in one go.

Strat_N8 wrote:

shogun wrote:

How do you get close? how do the survive?

Threat overload more or less. You put enough vehicles down on the table and the foe runs out of anti-armor to deal with them all. Trucks are fairly fast so getting close isn't too big an issue (generally in range to begin bombing by turn 2) and can use their mobility to stay out of line of sight provided there is sufficient terrain.

Also for the sake of context, I was giving advice to Red Corsair who said he is working on a list featuring 60 Acolytes and 6 trucks. Breaking 10-man units into 5 man units makes them more efficient bomb throwers while embarked on a Goliath due to the way grenades work. Assuming 3 trucks with demo caches and 3 10-strong units with no extra explosives, you can get 6 charges out in one go. If the squads are instead run as 6 5-strong units, that increases to 9 charges in one go. Now the 10-strong unit does get more out of extra explosives, but at that point you are burning command points and still throw 1 less demo charge than the MSU approach.

Yes, if you want to go down that road it would be good advice but I don't see how 6 trucks would come even close to make demolition charges work.