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Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




Well, now that it's confirmed Reivers get the new Vanguard Psycher abilities because they have the Phobos Keyword, does that make them useful again?

By the by, why are we getting these Dev Commentary alterations AFTER the fact, when it was clearly intended from the creation of Reivers that they had Phobos armor? I mean, that leads me to believe one of two things happened:

1. Either you had the entire Vanguard line already established at the time when you created Reivers, and just drip fed us the lineup to make us pay more, in which case whatever. I mean, ok, fine. Dick more but sure.

or

2. You designed the entire vanguard unit off of the Reiver, and gave the Reiver the Phobos key word after. In which case, WHY. A seriously, in my opinion, crappy looking and pointless unit, that is outperformed and under costed by the rest of the Infantry lineup. What was the idea of making these "new" units off the Reiver.

"Hey Dave, this is Jeff from accounting. We need a new lineup of models to sell."

"Why not use those models everyone uses?"

"Intercessors?"

"No, The Reivers."

"No one uses those. We don't even use those. We made them as a joke remember?"

"PHSSSSS whaaaat? Dude, EVERYONE in accounting uses them."
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





I don't see the point. At a glance Infiltrators are superior in almost every regard.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?


doubly so if you're hitting say a guard squad or something else similer as they'll likely lose a ton of models from morale failure too

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?


No charging with that warp time unless you have some version of advance and charge.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





East Bay, Ca, US

Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

 Galas wrote:
I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you

Bharring wrote:
He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
 
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.


This made me laugh out loud in my office, and I got in trouble. Worth it.
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.


I only know they exist because I built 5 of them with knives cause I already had the carbine version built and painted, and I just wanted to build something...
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

In the voxcast episode with Jes talking about Primaris. He said something like "when we designed the mkX armour, we figured out all of the ways the plates would be added to the base suit."
so that sounds to me like they have already had the designs for the primaris range since they started w Dark Imperium. I think they didnt want to name the reivers armour when they launched as to not hint at what was to come. so they just drip feed us bits n pieces of the already fully designed range.

I'm glad that they do have a cohesive aesthetic for the range and expect things like(gravis, inceptor, etc) make more sense once it's all out there.

I do really like the Phobos stuff and think that once they're used together on the tabletop, some pretty interesting ways of utilizing reivers will show themselves.

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Hanford, CA, AKA The Eye of Terror

Racerguy180 wrote:
In the voxcast episode with Jes talking about Primaris. He said something like "when we designed the mkX armour, we figured out all of the ways the plates would be added to the base suit."
so that sounds to me like they have already had the designs for the primaris range since they started w Dark Imperium. I think they didnt want to name the reivers armour when they launched as to not hint at what was to come. so they just drip feed us bits n pieces of the already fully designed range.

I'm glad that they do have a cohesive aesthetic for the range and expect things like(gravis, inceptor, etc) make more sense once it's all out there.

I do really like the Phobos stuff and think that once they're used together on the tabletop, some pretty interesting ways of utilizing reivers will show themselves.



They actually talked about this a lot in the white dwarf design articles that came out during the big introduction of Primaris. Like they really took time thinking about how the helmets worked with multiple sections, how the models moved, how the pouches and such would make sense, or having mag attached items. I think they are doing a lot of planning for this line and they are only dripping it out to create anticipation and to of course, stimulate sales. I think it would have been folly to introduce them all right away when other armies were begging for new releases, especially Orks and now Chaos. Additionally from a rules perspective I think they also wanted to see what the first year would impact how the new primaris stuff worked in the wide world (no amount of playtesting can replicate what insane tournament players do)

I think theres definitely a very precise design aesthetic we are barely getting to see the surface of for 40k as a whole. And I like it. Just look at how focused and interesting AOS has gotten. The new lines are totally unique and packed with flavor. 40k just suffers from too many ugly legacy options (hellllo potato faced guardsman and gorilla butt ork!). Theres a bright future here and I hope to see it all unfold.

17,000 points (Valhallan)
10,000 points
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Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, now that it's confirmed Reivers get the new Vanguard Psycher abilities because they have the Phobos Keyword, does that make them useful again?

By the by, why are we getting these Dev Commentary alterations AFTER the fact, when it was clearly intended from the creation of Reivers that they had Phobos armor? I mean, that leads me to believe one of two things happened:

1. Either you had the entire Vanguard line already established at the time when you created Reivers, and just drip fed us the lineup to make us pay more, in which case whatever. I mean, ok, fine. Dick more but sure.

or

2. You designed the entire vanguard unit off of the Reiver, and gave the Reiver the Phobos key word after. In which case, WHY. A seriously, in my opinion, crappy looking and pointless unit, that is outperformed and under costed by the rest of the Infantry lineup. What was the idea of making these "new" units off the Reiver.

"Hey Dave, this is Jeff from accounting. We need a new lineup of models to sell."

"Why not use those models everyone uses?"

"Intercessors?"

"No, The Reivers."

"No one uses those. We don't even use those. We made them as a joke remember?"

"PHSSSSS whaaaat? Dude, EVERYONE in accounting uses them."

From the way the process has been explained in various podcasts I've listened to the model is designed first then rules are added after the fact and actually built around the model. So the whole primaris range was most likely designed with a style of armor in mind. As more have come out and the rules team has seen the need to buff these units they can look at the model line and decide what to add. All these guys have the same armor type so they decided to give it a specific keyword. So essentially the rules team is going to add/ modify rules (which might include previously released models) as they get more access to the new sculpts
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?
The only offensive benefit for this power is if you have equipped your Reivers with Bolt Carbines. None of the other weapons work with the power since you have to Advance. You also can't charge unless you have some sort of ability to advance and charge (since you are Marines, you can't).

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

That's because they're a useless unit.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




U.k

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

That's because they're a useless unit.


But look cool. So are therefore an auto include in my armies.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

Andykp wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

That's because they're a useless unit.


But look cool. So are therefore an auto include in my armies.


How presumptuous.

I really like the idea of the unit and now with shadowspear, they actually have use for me.
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?


How you managing to charge after you are forced to advance with that move sport?

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Sorry to derail the thread but where was it confirmed that Reivers get Phobos keyword?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I loved the interview on Voxcast with Jes Goodwin where he was like 'everyone loved the new Reivers!' and now they're... where? I never see them on the table. They have no power weapon, no punch. They're an expensive harassment unit that doesn't even harass very well with all of the ways that a player can just... deploy their army to deny deep strike.

If they had ANY kind of special weapon, they might be decent. As is, they compete for points with models that just do their job better.

It doesn't matter that they have the Phobos keyword. They still won't be used in favor of things that can actually remove models from the table.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I'm pretty sure Reivers always had "phobos" mkx armor--they just didn't add the keyword because I'm not sure at the time that they knew they were going to use it for anything.

I can't remember where I've seen the phobos thing mentioned in the past but I'mlike 99% sure.
   
Made in us
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





Sioux Falls, SD

 bullyboy wrote:
Sorry to derail the thread but where was it confirmed that Reivers get Phobos keyword?
The Shadowspear Codex Vanguard Space Marines booklet. I believe there was an article on Warhammer Community that stated they got the Phones keyword as well, not 100% certain on that one.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




U.k

Racerguy180 wrote:
Andykp wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

That's because they're a useless unit.


But look cool. So are therefore an auto include in my armies.


How presumptuous.

I really like the idea of the unit and now with shadowspear, they actually have use for me.


I’ve always found them useful too. I play pure primaris so there isn’t much fills the role they have. And like I said. They look ace so I take at least 5 every time. People seem to think that if certain crowds don’t use them then no one does. I would say they are my favourite unit in primaris. Converting my captain from shadow spear to look like a captain reiver.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.

 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.


Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Backwoods bunker USA

All they need to do is give Reivers “power knives” and they will be in again.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear





 Stux wrote:
kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.


Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...


Oh, didn't realise that. Was that in an FAQ?

 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

kingheff wrote:
 Stux wrote:
kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.


Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...


Oh, didn't realise that. Was that in an FAQ?

Wait, wasn’t that only for flyers?

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Gig Harbor, WA

kingheff wrote:
 Stux wrote:
kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.


Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...


Oh, didn't realise that. Was that in an FAQ?


It’s in space marine errata.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

Whoops. I don’t play them so I haven’t made that
Mistakes.

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

 Stux wrote:
kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.


Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...


...because of a different unit getting abused in a soup. Le sigh.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Horrific Hive Tyrant





 JohnnyHell wrote:
 Stux wrote:
kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.


Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...


...because of a different unit getting abused in a soup. Le sigh.


Weirdly though, it wasn't directly that FAQ that affected Reivers, as Reivers don't have fly. It came in a slightly later FAQ, specifically targeting Reivers.

I tend to give GW the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things, but this was a real head scratched for me!
   
 
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