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As we all know stratagems give you specific instructions what to do. But all other rules still apply, unless the stratagem tells you otherwise. No unit can be selected to fight more than once in the fight phase (unless a special rule says otherwise). The stratagem doesnt say to ignore that restriction.



Here is a stratagem that does something similiar for the eversor assassin, it gives you permission to fight a second time, even if the assassin already fought in that fight phase. This is missing from OIDDDE.



Can a character who has already fought in the fight phase, fight a second time with OIDDDE ?

When using OIDDDE you aren't selecting the model to fight. The stratagem tells them to fight instead, so no restriction is broken.

The fact they explicitly say it's ok on the Eversor strat is irrelevant, it's just inconsistent wording on GW's part.

On the eversor strat its irrelevant because of bad wording, but the choice of words is fine on OIDDDE ? Sorry, not buying that.

 p5freak wrote:
On the eversor strat its irrelevant because of bad wording, but the choice of words is fine on OIDDDE ? Sorry, not buying that.

It's not BAD wording, it's just unnecessary. There's no contradiction here. That's not the point anyway. The point is that OIDDDE doesn't tell you to select a unit, so clearly it doesn't interfere with the restriction of only selecting a unit to fight once.

The eversor assassin strat also doesnt tell you to "select". It says to "choose". And it gives you permission to fight a second time, which OIDDDE doesnt. Still not buying it.

 p5freak wrote:
The eversor assassin strat also doesnt tell you to "select". It says to "choose". And it gives you permission to fight a second time, which OIDDDE doesnt. Still not buying it.

Fine. Still works though.

I believe you are correct in thinking that it is not giving you an 2nd fight phase. It is only allowing you to fight after you are slain.

Most of the "fight a 2nd time" stratagems are 2 or 3 points not 1. Of course, there is a lot of room for the RAW vs RAI argument.

Both Stratagems work just fine. Nothing to see here.

Do the assassins have the grey knight keyword? I dont play them so i dont know.

If it doesnt then this issue doesnt matter.

In the case of OIDDDE, it would be better if the rule included the explicit permission to fight a second (or third, or fourth, or whatever) time, but it is not necessary. The Stratagem itself tells you to select a model and then immediately fight as if the fight phase. This overrides the normal rules as to when the unit may be selected to fight, which is once per fight phase. It even allows you to fight outside of the Fight Phase.

The Assassin Stratagem doesn't need the permission to fight a second time, but it is a good clarification. As written, you are allowed to choose an Eversor that has not fought during the Fight Phase. This means you can get a virtual Heroic Intervention during your own turn when you follow the fight sequence and pile-in 3".

I'll leave it to others to debate whether your target is allowed to fight back after your End of the Fight phase action.

For future posters and viewers, no need to read ahead. The question was answered sificjnatly above. It works and there is nothing to see here. “Still don’t buy it” isn’t a valid argument after facts and rules have been stated. Thank you for coming!

I was right, you cannot fight a second time, if you already have fought in the fight phase

BRB update 1.4
Q: When using an ability or Stratagem to fight again in the
Fight phase, or fight ‘as if it were the Fight phase’, are you able to
ignore the rules for who is eligible to fight in the Fight phase? For
example, a unit is not within 1" of any enemy models and did
not charge that turn when I use the Stratagem – can it be selected
to fight again in order to pile into an enemy unit that was more
than 1" away and fight?
A: No.

That’s not what that FAQ says. It says you can’t ‘fight again’ if no enemy is within 1”, not that fight again doesn’t work at all. Indeed, the opening of the question should be a clue that fight again is possible.

Emphasising half an FAQ doesn’t magically make it fit what you want it to.

It says you arent able to ignore rules in the fight phase. A unit which has already fought cannot be selected to fight more than once in each fight phase. OIDDDE doesnt remove that restriction, the assassin stratagem does.

Still not buying it. ;-)

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Still not buying it. ;-)

Agreed!

JohnnyHell wrote:Still not buying it. ;-)

Stux wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Still not buying it. ;-)

Agreed!

Then you dont play by the rules. The FAQ clearly says you must follow all rules of the fight phase (not being able to fight twice is a rule of the fight phase), unless the stratagem says otherwise. A unit not being within 1" and did not charge is just an example.

 p5freak wrote:

JohnnyHell wrote:Still not buying it. ;-)

Stux wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Still not buying it. ;-)

Agreed!

Then you dont play by the rules. The FAQ clearly says you must follow all rules of the fight phase (not being able to fight twice is a rule of the fight phase), unless the stratagem says otherwise. A unit not being within 1" and did not charge is just an example.

No, you're making logical leaps outside of what the rules actually say, and hence you don't play by THE rules. You play by your interpretation of the rules.

 p5freak wrote:

JohnnyHell wrote:Still not buying it. ;-)

Stux wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Still not buying it. ;-)

Agreed!

Then you dont play by the rules. The FAQ clearly says you must follow all rules of the fight phase (not being able to fight twice is a rule of the fight phase), unless the stratagem says otherwise. A unit not being within 1" and did not charge is just an example.

Except, the strat says otherwise...

It mentions allowing the model to fight. So the model can fight.

Except, the strat says otherwise...

It mentions allowing the model to fight. So the model can fight.

I agree that this is rules as intended.
but with the ambiguity of "eligible" in the context of the new FAQ
its hard to really know...
Honour the Chapter strat says "select X Infantry unit - that unit can immediately fight for a second time"
but it wouldn't be able to in a situation where the unit has not charged and is not within 1" of enemy... in this case strat says fight,,, but model can't fight.

The real question is, what did GW mean by eligible.... why didn't they think to specify this with errata, or a more comprehensive answer then "No."

Under Choose Unit to Fight With

Any unit that charged or has a models within "1 of an enemy unit can be shose to fight in the fight phase... after all charging units have fought, the players alternate choosing eligible units to fight with until all eligible units on both sides have fought once each.

then the next line reads

No unit can be selected to fight more than once in each Fight phase.

the fact that these two statements are separated like this leads me to believe that eligibility refers specifically to the things mentioned above where the term is stated, i.e. "any unit that charged or ghas a models within 1" of an enemy unit."

however, it is pretty ambiguous.

 DeathReaper wrote:


Except, the strat says otherwise...

It mentions allowing the model to fight. So the model can fight.

It doesnt matter what the stratagem says. The FAQ overrules it. The FAQ says you must follow all rules of the fight phase. No unit can fight twice in the fight phase, unless a special rule says otherwise.

It doesnt matter what the stratagem says. The FAQ overrules it. The FAQ says you must follow all rules of the fight phase. No unit can fight twice in the fight phase, unless a special rule says otherwise.

Wrong,
the FAQ says

are you able to ignore the rules for who is eligible to fight in the Fight phase

according to BRB eligible could be a rules keyword for "any unit that charged or has a models within 1" due to this exact sentence being referenced that way preceding the text of "No unit can be selected to fight more than once in each Fight phase."

The real question is what is RAI for the word eligible not what is RAW, as RAW does not define the term exactly but only makes use of it when referencing the above.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also note
the rule is

No unit can be selected to fight more then once in each Fight phase

The faq still states

‘as if it were that phase’

it is not the Fight phase it is an action being taken 'as if it were that fight phase.' even though its in the actual fight phase.
thus its own little instance of the fight phase.

It is do this action, as though it was the fight phase, its not checking to see whether or not its actually the fight phase. It just wants you to do an action ... as though it was fight phase.

Unlike the "even if that model has already fought this phase" strat because that doesn't say "as if this was the fight phase" it says do this "at the end of the fight phase"

edit: added punctuation for dramatic pause

This would appear to have covered the pertinent points by now, and there's little to be gained by people just repeating the same arguments at each other for another three pages, so we'll just go ahead and lock it down.

Given the divided opinions here, it's probably something that's worth discussing with your opponent pre-game, where applicable.

Moving on.