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I'm copy-pasting directly from the latest version of the 40k rulebook errata:

Page 177 – Movement Phase
Add the following text to the end of the Movement phase section: ‘Aircraft

If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move characteristic (or if it has a damage table on its datasheet that includes any minimum Move characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be moved across such models (and their bases) as if they were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move within 1" of any enemy units.
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).’

I'm aware that the intent of the rule is to prevent flyers from blocking the movement of enemy units and it may be that the bit of the above paragraph that I'm about to reproduce may just refer to units moving over units with the AIRCRAFT keyword but... and I'm quoting:

"whenever a model makes any kind of move... and it cannot end the move within 1" of enemy units"

To me, that says that you can't use pile-ins / consolidations or heroic interventions to get within an inch of a model that has the AIRCRAFT keyword. You would still be able to charge them because the AIRBORNE ability provides an exception to this rule.

The reason I'm concerned about this rule interpretation is that the new white scars supplement has a warlord trait called master of snares that works the same as the drukhari wyches ability "no escape" but, unlike it, it affects all unit types, not just infantry. The ability could definitely be used by a white scars smash captain to charge an aircraft and auto-explode it on the following turn if the aircraft fails to fall back but, could a captain on a bike use it as well for exploding aircrafts? I mean, is this model allowed to get within an inch of an aircraft using pile-ins / consolidations or heroic interventions?

The rules for the Movement Phase apply in the movement phase.

The rules in the Fight Phase explicitly allow you to ignore the 1" rule.

Yes, they do... but do they provide an exception to the AIRCRAFT rule? I reckon they may not need to because AIRCRAFT has been included in the movement phase section but... same applies to FLY... and FLY affects both the movement and the charge phase... same could happen here, since the rule states "any movement", it could very well apply to all phases. On top of it, the unit meeting the requirements gains the AIRCRAFT rule not for the movement phase alone but for the entirety of the game

eparedes0785 wrote:
I'm copy-pasting directly from the latest version of the 40k rulebook errata:

Page 177 – Movement Phase
Add the following text to the end of the Movement phase section: ‘Aircraft

If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move characteristic (or if it has a damage table on its datasheet that includes any minimum Move characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be moved across such models (and their bases) as if they were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move within 1" of any enemy units.
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).’

I'm aware that the intent of the rule is to prevent flyers from blocking the movement of enemy units and it may be that the bit of the above paragraph that I'm about to reproduce may just refer to units moving over units with the AIRCRAFT keyword but... and I'm quoting:

"whenever a model makes any kind of move... and it cannot end the move within 1" of enemy units"

To me, that says that you can't use pile-ins / consolidations or heroic interventions to get within an inch of a model that has the AIRCRAFT keyword. You would still be able to charge them because the AIRBORNE ability provides an exception to this rule.

The reason I'm concerned about this rule interpretation is that the new white scars supplement has a warlord trait called master of snares that works the same as the drukhari wyches ability "no escape" but, unlike it, it affects all unit types, not just infantry. The ability could definitely be used by a white scars smash captain to charge an aircraft and auto-explode it on the following turn if the aircraft fails to fall back but, could a captain on a bike use it as well for exploding aircrafts? I mean, is this model allowed to get within an inch of an aircraft using pile-ins / consolidations or heroic interventions?

Yes, it may. Like BCB said, different rules for different phases.

Does the Master of Snares mention Falling Back? If so, if the AIRCRAFT is not making a Fall Back move, per the quote you used, then no, it wouldn't I suppose. But, if the ability refers to any unit within 1 inch moving away, then yes, it would likely affect the AIRCRAFT.

What if the aircraft had the airborne ability?

eparedes0785 wrote:
What if the aircraft had the airborne ability?

Airborne- This model cannot charge, and can only be charged and attacked in the fight phase by units with the Fly keyword.

I don't see how that matters. You have been piled/consolidated into, pulling you into combat. You're not being charged or attacked. Therefore you're locked in combat.

Yes you can pile in consolidate into an AIRCRAFT and with master of snares it cannot fallback. When the aircraft can't hover it can't fallback, which means it can't make its minimum move, and it's destroyed.

 p5freak wrote:
Yes you can pile in consolidate into an AIRCRAFT and with master of snares it cannot fallback. When the aircraft can't hover it can't fallback, which means it can't make its minimum move, and it's destroyed.

BRB FAQ wrote:Page 177 – Movement Phase
Add the following text to the end of the Movement
phase section:
‘Aircraft
If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move
characteristic (or if it has a damage table on
its datasheet that includes any minimum Move
characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be
moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they
were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move
within 1" of any enemy units.
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement
phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not
have to Fall Back in order to move).’

You don't even need to consolidate to get within 1" - But between Aircraft, and Airborne, you're going to be hard pressed to make the case they're locked in combat. You can't fight it, it can't fight you, it doesn't even count as within 1" for denying movement. All you really did was make me point out my flyers are on scenic flying stands, not bases, and you're not within 1" of the hull, until they make a That Guy rule clarification that this 1" window they gave ground troops also counts for the flyers vs non-flying ground troops.

Additionally, I'd point out the Pile In is a move, and the Aircraft rule prohibits any and all movement that ENDS within 1" of an AIRCRAFT.

Repeated for emphasis/isolation:

Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be
moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they
were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move
within 1" of any enemy units.

Emphasis mine.

If you try and pile into my Aircraft, I'm going to point out you just made an illegal move. You can't pile into Aircraft by the wording of the Aircraft rule, and technically, you can't even finish your charge move within 1" of the unit you actually tried to charge if you had to get within 1" of my AIRCRAFT - because you're now prohibited from getting within 1" of ANY enemy units. Your charge failed. You don't even get to pile-in.

There is no such thing as locked in combat, only whether you are within 1" of enemy models, or not. It doesn't matter if you can attack a unit, or not. Master of snares prevents a unit from falling back. If it's s flyer with minimum move it will be destroyed.

 p5freak wrote:
There is no such thing as locked in combat, only whether you are within 1" of enemy models, or not. It doesn't matter if you can attack a unit, or not. Master of snares prevents a unit from falling back. If it's s flyer with minimum move it will be destroyed.

If it's a flyer with a minimum move, it's an AIRCRAFT - that's pretty much how they defined their new KEYWORD, and you can't get within 1" of AIRCRAFT with "any kind of move" - even a Pile-In Move.

Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be
moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they
were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move
within 1" of any enemy units.

For as much as we laugh at GW for writing bad rules, they usually do it often enough you can find another badly written rule to bash someone trying to abuse the first badly written rule over the head with. In this case not only can't you pile in to my aircraft, you can't charge them either. Even with models that fly. Because even with Fly, you can't end within 1" of my AIRCRAFT even on a Charge Move - which is still "any kind of move" -

You are forgetting that this is only in the movement phase. The fight phase is not the movement phase. You can pile in and consolidate in the fight phase into an aircraft.

Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, page 177 – Movement Phase
Add the following text to the end of the Movement Phase section:
‘Aircraft
If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move characteristic (or if it has a damage table on its datasheet that
includes any minimum Move characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move within 1" of any enemy units.
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).’

 p5freak wrote:
You are forgetting that this is only in the movement phase. The fight phase is not the movement phase. You can pile in and consolidate in the fight phase into an aircraft.

Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, page 177 – Movement Phase
Add the following text to the end of the Movement Phase section:
‘Aircraft
If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move characteristic (or if it has a damage table on its datasheet that
includes any minimum Move characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move within 1" of any enemy units.
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).’

No, it's not.

If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).

comes AFTER the part about not being able to move within 1" of an AIRCRAFT The first part doesn't specify a phase, and in fact specifies ANY KIND OF MOVE. Charge and Pile-In are kinds of moves. The part you continued the quote to doesn't even refer to the AIRCRAFT but models within 1" of an AIRCRAFT who can still move without falling back. In the movement phase.

With the way this rule is written, the only way you're getting your White Scars bike captain within 1" of an AIRCRAFT is to make him fly, and have me charge him with my AIRCRAFT.

Aircraft have the airborne ability, and thus cannot charge unless they have hover.

So essentially, if we say that AIRCRAFT means nothing can move within an inch of the model ever, then they immune to all melee and movement aside from their own.
Even though the rule does say a unit can be moved within an inch but cannot end it's move within an inch. So which is it?

Because Pile In and Consolidation allow you to be moved within an inch of enemy model.

Again, those rules are only in the movement phase.

 p5freak wrote:
Again, those rules are only in the movement phase.

Again, no they're not. You are however free to quote and emphasize the "Movement Phase Only" disclaimer you see for not being able to end ANY KIND OF MOVE within 1" of an AIRCRAFT using the italics, bold, or underline BBCode. Wouldn't be the first time I've been blind. Are you saying a Charge Move and a Pile-In Move aren't... some kind of move? Even Embarking and Disembarking is some kind of move.

It's pretty simple. If someone is going to try and get a cheap RAW kill of an AIRCRAFT because they don't want to deal with it in the spirit of the game, they're going to run into a cheap RAW reading of the AIRCRAFT rule - and a strictly literal reading of "Any Kind Of Move" until/unless GW FAQ's it - again - either to nerf the snares or change the wording of AIRCRAFT so they can just keep flying/moving like the ground models. They screwed up making the keep moving without falling back allowance one-directional.

I wouldn't be OK either if an opponent pile-ins / consolidates / heroically intervenes within an inch of my aircraft with a model that can't fly i.e: white scars captain on a bike with master of snares, with the sole intention of preventing it from falling back on subsequent turns, thus making it explode.

It does not make any sense from a logical point of view. In addition, and I may be wrong on this one, just because the aircraft rule sits under the movement phase section of the rules does not mean that it only applies to this section. A good example is the rule FLY, which also sits in this section of the rules but affects charges too.

And no, the fact that the aircraft rule impedes enemy models to move within an inch of models with aircraft does not mean it's impossible to charge them imo, as the airborne rule provides an exception to it (if you have fly, you can charge an aircraft)

eparedes0785 wrote:


And no, the fact that the aircraft rule impedes enemy models to move within an inch of models with aircraft does not mean it's impossible to charge them imo, as the airborne rule provides an exception to it (if you have fly, you can charge an aircraft)

Ahh you see, you're giving them a generous interpretation of the rules. Perfectly fine, understandable, and even expected in a friendly game. Not so much when they want to crash a Stormraven with a pit trap. After that, they can't charge it either, rule says 4+ cant fall back, Rule says Any Kind of Move.

I'm getting lost at this point... nobody is arguing that a smash captain (with a jump pack) with master of snares would be able to charge an aircraft, then destroy it in the following turn if the aircraft were unable to fall back, right?

Breton wrote:


Again, no they're not. You are however free to quote and emphasize the "Movement Phase Only" disclaimer you see for not being able to end ANY KIND OF MOVE within 1" of an AIRCRAFT using the italics, bold, or underline BBCode. Wouldn't be the first time I've been blind. Are you saying a Charge Move and a Pile-In Move aren't... some kind of move? Even Embarking and Disembarking is some kind of move.

Charge, pile in, consolidate are moves. But NOT moves in the movement phase. The limitation of not being able to move within 1" of an aircraft only applies in the movement phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

eparedes0785 wrote:
I wouldn't be OK either if an opponent pile-ins / consolidates / heroically intervenes within an inch of my aircraft with a model that can't fly i.e: white scars captain on a bike with master of snares, with the sole intention of preventing it from falling back on subsequent turns, thus making it explode.

I am also not ok with tsons smite spam, suffering 30MW per turn, but that's doesn't change the rules.

Is a charge a move in the movement phase?

Because the rule FLY, although included in the movement phase, specifies you get to fly in the charge phase...

 p5freak wrote:

Breton wrote:


Again, no they're not. You are however free to quote and emphasize the "Movement Phase Only" disclaimer you see for not being able to end ANY KIND OF MOVE within 1" of an AIRCRAFT using the italics, bold, or underline BBCode. Wouldn't be the first time I've been blind. Are you saying a Charge Move and a Pile-In Move aren't... some kind of move? Even Embarking and Disembarking is some kind of move.

Charge, pile in, consolidate are moves. But NOT moves in the movement phase. The limitation of not being able to move within 1" of an aircraft only applies in the movement phase.

Prove it. Quote the Any Kind of Move modified by Only In the Movement Phase.

To paraphrase you, you may not like it but the rules as written don't differentiate between ANY KIND OF MOVE in the movement phase, and ANY KIND OF MOVE IN ANY PHASE - you may not like it....

but that's doesn't change the rules.

ANY KIND OF MOVE is not modified by "in the movement phase".

Breton wrote:

Prove it. Quote the Any Kind of Move modified by Only In the Movement Phase.

To paraphrase you, you may not like it but the rules as written don't differentiate between ANY KIND OF MOVE in the movement phase, and ANY KIND OF MOVE IN ANY PHASE - you may not like it....

Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, page 177 – Movement Phase
Add the following text to the end of the Movement Phase section:
‘Aircraft
If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move characteristic (or if it has a damage table on its datasheet that
includes any minimum Move characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.
Whenever a model makes any kind of move, it can be moved within 1" of enemy Aircraft, and it can be
moved across such models (and their bases) as if they were not there, but it cannot end the move on top of
another model (or its base), and it cannot end the move within 1" of any enemy units.
If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy units that are within 1" of it are
Aircraft, then it can still make a move (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back in order to move).’

These rules are literally listed in the movement phase part of the rulebook. hence they only apply in the movement phase. The part that you are hung up on is "any kind of move" but it's my understanding charging and pile-in are not kinds of moves. The kinds of moves are "move, fall back, and advance" as those are what's listed in the movement phase. Charging is an action taken in the charge phase, and pile-in is an action taken in the fight phase.

the last sentence of the rule is in regards to when you choose the model to activate and whether or not it can move. It also explicitly mentions having other units within 1" of it. which implies that units can end up in the position without breaking the previously mentioned rules.

 p5freak wrote:

Breton wrote:


Again, no they're not. You are however free to quote and emphasize the "Movement Phase Only" disclaimer you see for not being able to end ANY KIND OF MOVE within 1" of an AIRCRAFT using the italics, bold, or underline BBCode. Wouldn't be the first time I've been blind. Are you saying a Charge Move and a Pile-In Move aren't... some kind of move? Even Embarking and Disembarking is some kind of move.

Charge, pile in, consolidate are moves. But NOT moves in the movement phase. The limitation of not being able to move within 1" of an aircraft only applies in the movement phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

eparedes0785 wrote:
I wouldn't be OK either if an opponent pile-ins / consolidates / heroically intervenes within an inch of my aircraft with a model that can't fly i.e: white scars captain on a bike with master of snares, with the sole intention of preventing it from falling back on subsequent turns, thus making it explode.

I am also not ok with tsons smite spam, suffering 30MW per turn, but that's doesn't change the rules.

Please provide specific quotes rules stating movement phse only.. otherwise, your speculations are done here. Thank you for your fine, there is the door.

I, and others, have already provided citations. Please leave if you don't want, or can't read it. It's the one saying pg. 177 add the following text to the end of the movement phase section.

Could sbdy explain to me why the rule FLY, which is also embedded in the movement phase section does not only apply to the movement phase, please?

Page 177 – Moving
Add the following sentence to the end of the first paragraph:
‘No part of a model or its base can be set up or moved over the edge of the battlefield.’

Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models as if they were not there, and when moving across terrain features, vertical distance is not counted against the total it can move (i.e. moving vertically is free for this model in the Movement phase). If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the CHARGE PHASE it can move across models (other than Buildings) as if they were not there.’


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition to the above question, could you also explain why do aircrafts only gain the keyword for the movement phase alone as well?

If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move characteristic (or if it has a damage table on its datasheet that includes any minimum Move characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.

eparedes0785 wrote:
Could sbdy explain to me why the rule FLY, which is also embedded in the movement phase section does not only apply to the movement phase, please?

Page 177 – Moving
Add the following sentence to the end of the first paragraph:
‘No part of a model or its base can be set up or moved over the edge of the battlefield.’

Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models as if they were not there, and when moving across terrain features, vertical distance is not counted against the total it can move (i.e. moving vertically is free for this model in the Movement phase). If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the CHARGE PHASE it can move across models (other than Buildings) as if they were not there.’


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition to the above question, could you also explain why do aircrafts only gain the keyword for the movement phase alone as well?

If a unit can Fly and it has a minimum Move characteristic (or if it has a damage table on its datasheet that includes any minimum Move characteristics), that unit gains the Aircraft keyword.

Sure thing. Here you go. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_update_April_2019_en.pdf

balmong7 wrote:



Sure thing. Here you go. https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_update_April_2019_en.pdf

All that does is clarify the rule, it doesn't explain why FLY continues to apply outside the movement phase but ANY KIND OF MOVE does not.

Also thank for this one -

Change the second paragraph to read:
‘If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, then during the Movement phase it can move across models as if they were not there,

My AIRCRAFT have the fly rule. I can move over the Captain as if he's not there. I don't even have to fall back. As if he's not there.

We believed the most elegant way to resolve this issue was simply to disallow units that
can Fly from ignoring intervening models and terrain during the Charge phase. Since then, we’ve had a lot of feedback
from players who feel that the inability to ignore intervening models when charging has unduly affected the effectiveness
of their flying units. On reflection, we believe they are right, and it was certainly not our intent to affect the balance
of any of these units by our changes.

That's why Fly still works outside the movement phase. Because feedback from the players made them decide to change the rule to allow it.

balmong7 wrote:

We believed the most elegant way to resolve this issue was simply to disallow units that
can Fly from ignoring intervening models and terrain during the Charge phase. Since then, we’ve had a lot of feedback
from players who feel that the inability to ignore intervening models when charging has unduly affected the effectiveness
of their flying units. On reflection, we believe they are right, and it was certainly not our intent to affect the balance
of any of these units by our changes.

That's why Fly still works outside the movement phase. Because feedback from the players made them decide to change the rule to allow it.

It worked before that way before they changed it to, even though it was still described in the movement phase.The FAQ that rolls back the change to FLY working outside the movement phase as described in the movement phase section isn't very good proof things in the movement phase section only apply in the movement phase. We're still Any Kind of Move, and Models with Fly can move over models as if they aren't there.

Breton wrote:

balmong7 wrote:

We believed the most elegant way to resolve this issue was simply to disallow units that
can Fly from ignoring intervening models and terrain during the Charge phase. Since then, we’ve had a lot of feedback
from players who feel that the inability to ignore intervening models when charging has unduly affected the effectiveness
of their flying units. On reflection, we believe they are right, and it was certainly not our intent to affect the balance
of any of these units by our changes.

That's why Fly still works outside the movement phase. Because feedback from the players made them decide to change the rule to allow it.

It worked before that way before they changed it to, even though it was still described in the movement phase.The FAQ that rolls back the change to FLY working outside the movement phase as described in the movement phase section isn't very good proof things in the movement phase section only apply in the movement phase. We're still Any Kind of Move, and Models with Fly can move over models as if they aren't there.

But the aircraft rule was introduced after they changed it. They introduced the "movement phase only" specific stuff when they changed fly. A bunch of people got mad about fly, so it was granted a special exception.