Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

What happened to the old policy of killing any non-human Xenos life on sight? Does that still apply now or do we need to hold fire whenever we encounter Eldar just because they revived Gulliman and their clowns helped bring him to Earth.

Why are the Eldar bringing back Primarchs and opening helping humans? Is the official IoM policy to still kill them as despised enemies of humanity?

Considering Imperial Inquisitors even sometimes WORK with the clown varient of the Eldar and their library... how is that not insane heresy? Humans cannot work with any form of Xenos. That is heresy.

Humanity at large is still anti-xenos. The more progressive types are just in a more favorable relationship with a very small sub-sub group of Eldar weirdos. It remains mostly the same anti-alien for the rest of the Eldar. You probably have some Imperial parties that don’t care about that better relationship, though, and they would just kill them, given the chance.

Inquisitors do whatever the frack they want, they ain’t gotta explain gack. Sometimes Inquistors bind daemons and harness chaos powers.

It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

I don't think the Imperium at large knows that xenos scums helped revive the primarch ?

 Argive wrote:
It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

The blind xenophobia of the Imperium pre-Guilliman's return was also itself a retcon, though. Back in 2nd edition fluff, Imperial-Eldar alliances against Chaos were the norm. The people of Tallarn had a pact of eternal friendship with Biel-Tan. Prominent Imperial worlds had Eldar ambassadors. And the Eldar didn't generally view humans as worthless vermin, either, but rather as wayward and rather stupid children who needed to be properly trained before they could be allowed to inherit the Galaxy.

Personally, I welcome GW's recent moves to tone down some of the 3rd-7th edition grimderp Flanderization of the setting. 2nd edition fluff was what brought me into the hobby. The stupid grimdark-for-the-sake-of-grimdark nonsense that developed and metastasized over the next couple of editions eventually drove me away from 40K for a decade.

Fun fact, the Ultramarines famous chief librarian, Tigurius was originally a half-Eldar, this being the cause of his psychic affinity.

My, how times change.

 Elbows wrote:
Fun fact, the Ultramarines famous chief librarian, Tigurius was originally a half-Eldar, this being the cause of his psychic affinity.

My, how times change.

It wasn't Tigurius, it was Illiyan Nastase

WHAT IS THE AMOUNT OF HERESY IN THIS CHAT?

Kill all Xenos on sight, doesn't matter if they also hate Chaos.

Alliances of convenience happen all the time. Makes things more interesting.

Also means I get to be amused by folks exploding at a lack of violent racism.

The Aeldari, being superior to the dogmatic unevolved Mon'Keigh in every way, have come to the conclusion that in the fight against Chaos, they need to help the IoM otherwise Chaos will win.

That is why the Eldar decided to revive G-man so that there would be something to unite the unwashed masses of the IoM and give them hope.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's all that's happening

-

They are allies in the same way that the US and Russia are allies. They would love nothing more than to wipe each other off the face of the galaxy but they don't have the ability to cleanly do so.

DorianGray wrote:
WHAT IS THE AMOUNT OF HERESY IN THIS CHAT?

Kill all Xenos on sight, doesn't matter if they also hate Chaos.

There's always been a matter of priority. For example Tau and Tyranids both deserve to be shot on sight but if you run into both at once you'll join up with the Tau, kill the Tyranids then proceed to shoot the Tau.

I don't like when people caricature 40k: even during the 3-7th Ed there have been alliances: the 13th Black Crusade for example when Eldrad died fighting Chaos in 3rd or 4th IIRC
It was not grimdark grimdark, just a healthy dose.

 Elbows wrote:
Fun fact, the Ultramarines famous chief librarian, Tigurius was originally a half-Eldar, this being the cause of his psychic affinity.

My, how times change.

His dad got it on with a Farseer.... Bow-Chick-A-Wow-Wow

 Argive wrote:
It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

perhaps you should actually read the lore rather then rely on internet memes for your lore. the eldar and IoM are hardly holding hands, Gulliman has an occasional understanding with Yvrine. so one Imperial Leader has an occasional understanding with one Eldar leader. that doesn't mean they don't fight and that the millions of other factions and leaders within these groups won't attack each other on sight. Even Gulliman's not going to give the eldar a free pass.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Argive wrote:
It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

perhaps you should actually read the lore rather then rely on internet memes for your lore. the eldar and IoM are hardly holding hands, Gulliman has an occasional understanding with Yvrine. so one Imperial Leader has an occasional understanding with one Eldar leader. that doesn't mean they don't fight and that the millions of other factions and leaders within these groups won't attack each other on sight. Even Gulliman's not going to give the eldar a free pass.

One of them is a pretty minor leader as well. Yvraine doesn't have a load of direct power.

Marines have a lot more latitude in action than planets, PDFs, or even IG. The average member of the IoM is required to shoot the xenos scum on sight. Not doing so is liable to get you blammed. But a Marine (chapter) can choose not to. It's a lot harder for a Marine to get blammed.

Besides, Marines have worked with Eldar from time to time at least as far back as pre-heresey Thousand Sons dealing with a Tomb World.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Argive wrote:
It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

perhaps you should actually read the lore rather then rely on internet memes for your lore. the eldar and IoM are hardly holding hands, Gulliman has an occasional understanding with Yvrine. so one Imperial Leader has an occasional understanding with one Eldar leader. that doesn't mean they don't fight and that the millions of other factions and leaders within these groups won't attack each other on sight. Even Gulliman's not going to give the eldar a free pass.

I'm relying on my memories of rule book and codex lore from back in the 3rd ed.
Just saying it how it is. I have no interest reading the "nu 40k" lore tbh. Can hardly get enough time and energy to read some heresy stuff which I really need to start..

 Argive wrote:
It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

Considering there used to be a half-Eldar Ultramarine captain in Rogue Trader, that’s entirely BS.

Dunno I think I got into 40k around 2nd /3rd edition so after RT. (The one with the black templars on the cover of the BRB which had all of the data sheets for all of the factions) Just going by memory and by memory the IOM was very anti everything and a kill on sight of heretics and xenos seemed to be the order of the day. Maybe Im misremembering. This was when primarchs were more of a myth rather than fieldable models..

I mean I can see the idea of working with IOM to kill chaos, nids and Ork culls from an eldar perspective to be like a very sound logic.

But where you have a fanatical IOM which has inquisitors running around with the power to order fleets and exterminatus willy nilly if and when they feel heresy is being committed, the notion of institutionalised wide scale co-operation seems a bit unrealistic. Its supposedly a very grim dark behemoth of an empire that has millions of worlds being colonised and destroyed every single day. It seemed nobody was running that show and it was running itself by stamping out heresy..

The IoM is mostly depicted as a huge lumbering ignorant lump of sci facist bureaucracy. It makes sense to me that the head honchos would be casual about doing stuff they'd execute their subjects for dreaming of, just as it makes sense to me that people far from the cores of power can play fast and loose with supposedly iron clad edicts when the rubber hits the road. Both have a tendency to happen in the real world. One of the luxuries of being at the top of a food chain like that is getting to write and enforce the rules, rather than having to follow them. And sure you know you could get blammed for trading or working with Mr Xeno tomorrow, but that's a "maybe", if there's certainty of starving otherwise.


The Eldar/Human bromance leading to the return of G Man also seems to have been a temporary alliance of convenience, it doesn't seem to be an ongoing established precedent, and it's not clear to me how many people outside the inner circles are even aware it happened.

Also don't forget Yvraine wants to resurrect the God of the Dead. How better to do that than to make the Imperium strong enough to kill all the Eldar again.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

jokes!!!

 Argive wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Argive wrote:
It used to be the case until GW retconned the entire notion of grim dark 40k IOM as they needed a way to sell RB and primaris models ranges ohh and the triumvirate of ynnead *spits on the ground*. . So a nicer friendly IOM was needed to sell said models because reasons.

perhaps you should actually read the lore rather then rely on internet memes for your lore. the eldar and IoM are hardly holding hands, Gulliman has an occasional understanding with Yvrine. so one Imperial Leader has an occasional understanding with one Eldar leader. that doesn't mean they don't fight and that the millions of other factions and leaders within these groups won't attack each other on sight. Even Gulliman's not going to give the eldar a free pass.

I'm relying on my memories of rule book and codex lore from back in the 3rd ed.
Just saying it how it is. I have no interest reading the "nu 40k" lore tbh. Can hardly get enough time and energy to read some heresy stuff which I really need to start..

you have no intreast in reading the fluff but hey why let that stop you from having an opinion and spewing it to everyone as if it was fact!

I have/had an interest in old fluff when it was relevant to me liking the hobby at the time... I think there's a difference.

But hey ho don't let that stop you from spewing your opinion like its fact about what my opinions should or should not be.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Also don't forget Yvraine wants to resurrect the God of the Dead. How better to do that than to make the Imperium strong enough to kill all the Eldar again.

Bring about/give birth to - not resurrect. Ynead, while long prophesied and followed, has yet to be born.

And the Eldar God of the Dead - there are likely other God of the Deads of other cultures (although none as powerful beyond if you consider Nurgle one - I wouldn't).

Bharring wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Also don't forget Yvraine wants to resurrect the God of the Dead. How better to do that than to make the Imperium strong enough to kill all the Eldar again.

Bring about/give birth to - not resurrect. Ynead, while long prophesied and followed, has yet to be born.

And the Eldar God of the Dead - there are likely other God of the Deads of other cultures (although none as powerful beyond if you consider Nurgle one - I wouldn't).

Ynnead both always has been and never will be. Warp time is weird so resurrect seems a fair term.

I'd think that the only gods of death left are Nurgle and some forms of the Emperor. Until Nagash comes flying out of the Warp and teaches people about how you enslave a galaxy.

 Duskweaver wrote:
The blind xenophobia of the Imperium pre-Guilliman's return was also itself a retcon, though. Back in 2nd edition fluff, Imperial-Eldar alliances against Chaos were the norm. The people of Tallarn had a pact of eternal friendship with Biel-Tan. Prominent Imperial worlds had Eldar ambassadors. And the Eldar didn't generally view humans as worthless vermin, either, but rather as wayward and rather stupid children who needed to be properly trained before they could be allowed to inherit the Galaxy.

Personally, I welcome GW's recent moves to tone down some of the 3rd-7th edition grimderp Flanderization of the setting. 2nd edition fluff was what brought me into the hobby. The stupid grimdark-for-the-sake-of-grimdark nonsense that developed and metastasized over the next couple of editions eventually drove me away from 40K for a decade.

Agreed. A relationship of grudging acceptance with occasional betrayals makes for a much more interesting story than blind "Kill them all on sight" attitudes.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
They are allies in the same way that the US and Russia are allies. They would love nothing more than to wipe each other off the face of the galaxy but they don't have the ability to cleanly do so.

More like their fates are tied together. If the Eldar die out, humanity likely will as well, and vice-versa. The Eldar need humanity's manpower and humanity needs the Eldar's knowledge and "wisdom". Both sides reluctantly realize this, and the higher ups come to an understanding of sorts. Doesn't stop the majority of both factions from hating each others guts.

Maybe it's me, but that's a kind of grimdark in itself I quite enjoy - the Eldar and IoM aren't so different that they can't or don't work together effectively on occasion. If they could get their acts together, they could probably take the universe between them.

And yet, that's impossible simply because the factions are too fossilised in their ways to consider it on any grander scale than a few practical detentes here or there. Both factions are doomed to slow deaths by ideas set in stone millenia before, preached and enforced by authorities who know of instances when it would have been madness to live by them.