The Tau and advanced Imperial tech

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**KingGarland**

I remember reading in some Tau books that when first encountering the Imperium and discovering some of the lower tech used like the Lasgun they were rather unimpressed but I am wondering if there are any examples of the Tau analyzing some of the really weird/advanced stuff that the Imperium has like Knights/Titans, Ad Mech robots or Custodes tech?

**Eipi10**

Have the Tau even fought Custodes?

But if I recall a forum post I saw a while back, the T'au originally thought titans were just imperial propaganda. When they actually fought titans in the Damocles gulf crusade, they had to use spacecraft like the Manta to fight them. They were poorly suited for the job, so the T'au developed real super heavies to fight the Titans; both aerial and later ground-based, for when they need to contest actual territory.

**KingGarland**

Eipi10 wrote:
Have the Tau even fought Custodes?

But if I recall a forum post I saw a while back, the T'au originally thought titans were just imperial propaganda. When they actually fought titans in the Damocles gulf crusade, they had to use spacecraft like the Manta to fight them. They were poorly suited for the job, so the T'au developed real super heavies to fight the Titans; both aerial and later ground-based, for when they need to contest actual territory.

I remember that. I think that is the background of that huge ass Forge world model for the Tau, the KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour.

**Darian Aarush**

KingGarland wrote:
I remember reading in some Tau books that when first encountering the Imperium and discovering some of the lower tech used like the Lasgun they were rather unimpressed but I am wondering if there are any examples of the Tau analyzing some of the really weird/advanced stuff that the Imperium has like Knights/Titans, Ad Mech robots or Custodes tech?

I wonder how they reacted when Space Marine chainswords ripped through their puny forms...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lasguns (aka 'flashlights') aren't great, admittedly. But in the numbers in which the Astra Miliitarum wield them, they're enough.

**godardc**

There is a short story when the Tau discover an imperial missile guided by a servitor, or at least some remains like the brain. They open the missile to study it and make this ... Disconcerting discovery

**Eipi10**

What story is that?

**godardc**

It's in Kauyon or Montka IIRC

**BrianDavion**

godardc wrote:
It's in Kauyon or Montka IIRC

makes sense, thats about when the hunter and stalker tanks where introduced

**godardc**

BrianDavion wrote:
godardc wrote:
It's in Kauyon or Montka IIRC

makes sense, thats about when the hunter and stalker tanks where introduced

It was a hunter missile ! That's the explanation of why you can reroll if you miss in-game: the missile is guided by the servitor remains inside it.

**locarno24**

Battlefleet Gothic notes that Tau Naval tech is distinctly behind that of the Navy.

The biggest example is/was supposed to be the next Imperial Armour book, Fires of Cyraxus. It's a tau force striking at a forgeworld to test their latest suits (like the supremacy armour) and going "this was a mistake!!!!!!!". Of course, we've been waiting for that since 2016.

**godardc**

Yeah if you don't fall for the memes, the Imperium of Man is actually really advanced like way more than lots and lots of xenos empires. Just not the common cannon fodder

**chimera0205**

locarno24 wrote:
Battlefleet Gothic notes that Tau Naval tech is distinctly behind that of the Navy.

The biggest example is/was supposed to be the next Imperial Armour book, Fires of Cyraxus. It's a tau force striking at a forgeworld to test their latest suits (like the supremacy armour) and going "this was a mistake!!!!!!!". Of course, we've been waiting for that since 2016.

Wait I thought the Tau navy was vastly surperior at long ranges due to having yknow actual complex AI firing solution and guided torpedos. It was only when the Imperials got close that they got fethed up. I mean yeah they still dont have usable warp technology (witch still doesn't make any fething sense) but still.

**Ice_can**

chimera0205 wrote:
locarno24 wrote:
Battlefleet Gothic notes that Tau Naval tech is distinctly behind that of the Navy.

The biggest example is/was supposed to be the next Imperial Armour book, Fires of Cyraxus. It's a tau force striking at a forgeworld to test their latest suits (like the supremacy armour) and going "this was a mistake!!!!!!!". Of course, we've been waiting for that since 2016.

Wait I thought the Tau navy was vastly surperior at long ranges due to having yknow actual complex AI firing solution and guided torpedos. It was only when the Imperials got close that they got fethed up. I mean yeah they still dont have usable warp technology (witch still doesn't make any fething sense) but still.

Depends on which version of the Tau fleet your talking about.

The first one was super weak it was more like an imperial exploritor fleet than an imperial navy armada.

The protector fleet ship for ship seems to have some advantage and disadvantages vrs imperium. Where they struggle is macro weapons at short range ruin their advanced but less armoured ships. They have better strike craft, missiles etc.

The Tau way or war vrs the imperial way of war are very different and the imperial way of throwing life away is barbaric to Tau they also Don't get the imperiums inflexibility.

Find problem design solution, Imperium that didn't work with 1000 guard lets try 10000 next time then 100000 eventually they will run out of ammo.

**Tygre**

I remember a BFG short story that a Tau ship captain (I think) marvelled at how fast, and well armed, an Imperial transport ship he was attacking.

I think the Imperium relying on attrition is a meme. They do try to minimise casualties, but they are unafraid to take them when needed. I am tired of the Imperium is incompetent meme.

**chimera0205**

Tygre wrote:
I remember a BFG short story that a Tau ship captain (I think) marvelled at how fast, and well armed, an Imperial transport ship he was attacking.

I think the Imperium relying on attrition is a meme. They do try to minimise casualties, but they are unafraid to take them when needed. I am tired of the Imperium is incompetent meme.

Its not really a meme doe? At least not with ground combat. Ever heard of the Death Korps of Krieg? Attrition is ALL they do. Also that BFG short doesnt make sense as the Tau have Faught the Imperium in space on equal ground before

**Ice_can**

Tygre wrote:
I remember a BFG short story that a Tau ship captain (I think) marvelled at how fast, and well armed, an Imperial transport ship he was attacking.

I think the Imperium relying on attrition is a meme. They do try to minimise casualties, but they are unafraid to take them when needed. I am tired of the Imperium is incompetent meme.

You see it as incompetent, I see it as more they just don't care.

1000 Guardsmen sounds bad as a number killed in 1 battle but this is an empire that isn't affraid of virus bombing a planet, making it uninhabitable for thousands of years because it might have been corrupted by Choas, your talking billions of people killed because they're possibly corrupted.

In a empire of a billion plus planets making 1 or 2 uninhabitable for a thousand years or so isn't really that big of a deal if your empire is hundreds or thousands of planets that's a much more significant loss.

**Platuan4th**

chimera0205 wrote:
Tygre wrote:
I remember a BFG short story that a Tau ship captain (I think) marvelled at how fast, and well armed, an Imperial transport ship he was attacking.

I think the Imperium relying on attrition is a meme. They do try to minimise casualties, but they are unafraid to take them when needed. I am tired of the Imperium is incompetent meme.

Its not really a meme doe? At least not with ground combat. Ever heard of the Death Korps of Krieg? Attrition is ALL they do. Also that BFG short doesnt make sense as the Tau have Faught the Imperium in space on equal ground before

The Death Korps themselves CHOOSE to fight that way as penance, it's not an operating standard for the Imperium that says they have to. So yes, it's a meme when it comes to the Imperium at large.

**Tiennos**

I'd say the Imperium just has different priorities. It doesn't care about losing a thousand guardsmen because ordinary humans with cheap equipment don't have that much value. Attrition is fine in that case.

Anyone who would decide to sacrifice a bunch of titans in the same way would probably be removed from command very violently, because these are basically priceless and it would be insane to put them in a battle where you know they will be destroyed.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Plus, the lasgun is a logistician's wet dream. It is by no means a bad weapon for its intended purpose.

**Frazzled**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Plus, the lasgun is a logistician's wet dream. It is by no means a bad weapon for its intended purpose.

I am surprised that don't take that concept and run with it like a wiener dog escaping with a slice of pizza:
*multilasers instead of heavy bolters at all levels.
*Lascannons or multilasers instead of autocannons at all levels.

**pm713**

Tygre wrote:
I remember a BFG short story that a Tau ship captain (I think) marvelled at how fast, and well armed, an Imperial transport ship he was attacking.

I think the Imperium relying on attrition is a meme. They do try to minimise casualties, but they are unafraid to take them when needed. I am tired of the Imperium is incompetent meme.

A large part of the Imperium is incompetent though.

**BaconCatBug**

One thing people also forget is that the Lasgun is an absolute marvel of technology. It's simple enough to be mass produced and will work in any and all conditions, Desert, Tundra, Void, you name it. It is rugged enough that it will keep working after any abuse short of running it over with a tank, can fire for the entire (average) lifespan of a Guardsman on just a single power pack and the power packs can range from chemical batteries to solar powered to being thrown into a fire pit to charge them.

Its powerful enough to blow limbs off even on its standard setting.

The fact it's considered just a flashlight shows just how terasquirrel poop nutty the 40k universe is.

**Kcalehc**

Frazzled wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Plus, the lasgun is a logistician's wet dream. It is by no means a bad weapon for its intended purpose.

I am surprised that don't take that concept and run with it like a wiener dog escaping with a slice of pizza:
*multilasers instead of heavy bolters at all levels.
*Lascannons or multilasers instead of autocannons at all levels.

Were I to create the Guard from scratch, this is the direction I would have taken. All laser weapons everywhere - tanks and artillery the only things with actual shells, but other than that all lasers (maybe a bit of plasma too).

**chimera0205**

BaconCatBug wrote:
One thing people also forget is that the Lasgun is an absolute marvel of technology. It's simple enough to be mass produced and will work in any and all conditions, Desert, Tundra, Void, you name it. It is rugged enough that it will keep working after any abuse short of running it over with a tank, can fire for the entire (average) lifespan of a Guardsman on just a single power pack and the power packs can range from chemical batteries to solar powered to being thrown into a fire pit to charge them.

Its powerful enough to blow limbs off even on its standard setting.

The fact it's considered just a flashlight shows just how terasquirrel poop nutty the 40k universe is.

Yeah.but the Tau Pulse rifle is still objectively better in every possible way. It has greater range and massively greater power with it being considered comparable then a Spacemarine Bolter. Its only major downside being Rate of Fire

**BrianDavion**

chimera0205 wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
One thing people also forget is that the Lasgun is an absolute marvel of technology. It's simple enough to be mass produced and will work in any and all conditions, Desert, Tundra, Void, you name it. It is rugged enough that it will keep working after any abuse short of running it over with a tank, can fire for the entire (average) lifespan of a Guardsman on just a single power pack and the power packs can range from chemical batteries to solar powered to being thrown into a fire pit to charge them.

Its powerful enough to blow limbs off even on its standard setting.

The fact it's considered just a flashlight shows just how terasquirrel poop nutty the 40k universe is.

Yeah.but the Tau Pulse rifle is still objectively better in every possible way. It has greater range and massively greater power with it being considered comparable then a Spacemarine Bolter. Its only major downside being Rate of Fire

I agrentee it's no where NEAR as robust.

A Lasgun operates simply, you have a single ammo supply requirement (energy) which can be produced in any situation just about anywhere. A garrison unit can plug their packs into power plugs and recharge them as easily as you can recharge your xbox controler.

A pulse rifle meanwhile presumably needs both an energy source, and a source of matter for the Plasma, making them not as easy to keep working in the field. this isn't a concern for the Tau whose empire is small and are less likely to have to worry about supply chains, but, logisticly the lasgun is superior.

**chimera0205**

BrianDavion wrote:
chimera0205 wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
One thing people also forget is that the Lasgun is an absolute marvel of technology. It's simple enough to be mass produced and will work in any and all conditions, Desert, Tundra, Void, you name it. It is rugged enough that it will keep working after any abuse short of running it over with a tank, can fire for the entire (average) lifespan of a Guardsman on just a single power pack and the power packs can range from chemical batteries to solar powered to being thrown into a fire pit to charge them.

Its powerful enough to blow limbs off even on its standard setting.

The fact it's considered just a flashlight shows just how terasquirrel poop nutty the 40k universe is.

Yeah.but the Tau Pulse rifle is still objectively better in every possible way. It has greater range and massively greater power with it being considered comparable then a Spacemarine Bolter. Its only major downside being Rate of Fire

I agrentee it's no where NEAR as robust.

A Lasgun operates simply, you have a single ammo supply requirement (energy) which can be produced in any situation just about anywhere. A garrison unit can plug their packs into power plugs and recharge them as easily as you can recharge your xbox controler.

A pulse rifle meanwhile presumably needs both an energy source, and a source of matter for the Plasma, making them not as easy to keep working in the field. this isn't a concern for the Tau whose empire is small and are less likely to have to worry about supply chains, but, logisticly the lasgun is superior.

Yeab but thats the ONLY field the Lasgun is better in

**BrianDavion**

yeah but that's hugely important.
as the saying goes, amateaurs study tactics, armchair generals study stragety, and professionals study logistics. or to quote Napoleon Bonapart "an army marches on it's stomach" logistics wins wars.

**locarno24**

Kcalehc wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Plus, the lasgun is a logistician's wet dream. It is by no means a bad weapon for its intended purpose.

I am surprised that don't take that concept and run with it like a wiener dog escaping with a slice of pizza:
*multilasers instead of heavy bolters at all levels.
*Lascannons or multilasers instead of autocannons at all levels.

Were I to create the Guard from scratch, this is the direction I would have taken. All laser weapons everywhere - tanks and artillery the only things with actual shells, but other than that all lasers (maybe a bit of plasma too).

Ironically the very first plastic imperial army kit was all lasers.

Yeab but thats the ONLY field the Lasgun is better in[/quote
It's also much lighter and handier in a close-quarter battle, and gets more shots per clip on standard power (60 vs 30), which is very important when laying down suppressive fire because you can keep shooting longer.

Also that BFG short doesnt make sense as the Tau have Faught the Imperium in space on equal ground before

Defensively, yes. Engaging with the sensor and defensive fortifications of a sept, or throwing a massed fleet at a single point to win that one battle, is a lot different to engaging in a multi-system campaign across a subsector.

The Imperium has (a) faster strategic speed, (b) warp-capable escorts that don't need either a capital ship to tow them or a massive recharge time between jumps, (c) the ability to communicate said scout's findings at FTL speeds, and (d) at least parity in most capital ship single-duel engagements.

**pm713**

chimera0205 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
chimera0205 wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
One thing people also forget is that the Lasgun is an absolute marvel of technology. It's simple enough to be mass produced and will work in any and all conditions, Desert, Tundra, Void, you name it. It is rugged enough that it will keep working after any abuse short of running it over with a tank, can fire for the entire (average) lifespan of a Guardsman on just a single power pack and the power packs can range from chemical batteries to solar powered to being thrown into a fire pit to charge them.

Its powerful enough to blow limbs off even on its standard setting.

The fact it's considered just a flashlight shows just how terasquirrel poop nutty the 40k universe is.

Yeah.but the Tau Pulse rifle is still objectively better in every possible way. It has greater range and massively greater power with it being considered comparable then a Spacemarine Bolter. Its only major downside being Rate of Fire

I agrentee it's no where NEAR as robust.

A Lasgun operates simply, you have a single ammo supply requirement (energy) which can be produced in any situation just about anywhere. A garrison unit can plug their packs into power plugs and recharge them as easily as you can recharge your xbox controler.

A pulse rifle meanwhile presumably needs both an energy source, and a source of matter for the Plasma, making them not as easy to keep working in the field. this isn't a concern for the Tau whose empire is small and are less likely to have to worry about supply chains, but, logisticly the lasgun is superior.

Yeab but thats the ONLY field the Lasgun is better in

Lasguns also seem far easier to produce. Which is a pretty significant advantage.

**Mr Nobody**

The Imperium is weird because their level of technology is all over the place. The most advanced technology you'll see a guardsmen use will be some form of plasma gun, which also tends to blow up. Relatively unimpressive compared to the technologies available to even the lowest warrior of the Tau. But the Imperium will resort to using their archeotech if there is a need. Common examples would the space marine terminator armor or titans. Some forge worlds will even pull out even rarer examples, like a black hole gun or something.