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https://techraptor.net/tabletop/news/restoration-games-applies-for-heroquest-legacies-trademark

The Quest Continues
Restoration Games has filed a trademark under the name HeroQuest Legacies. The trademark covers "tabletop hobby battle games in the nature of battle, war, and skirmish games" and is likely to be a reboot or continuation of the classic 1980s HeroQuest board game.

What exactly is HeroQuest Legacies?
We don't actually know yet. Restoration Games is well-known for restoring classic games from bygone eras that have been out of print for some time. According to the company's "About" page, they "take the stuff we like and really make it the star" while "quietly [discarding] the outdated stuff that's not really working for us". As such, we can perhaps expect HeroQuest Legacies to be an updated version of HeroQuest that offers a twist on the classic dungeon crawler gameplay of the original. The "Legacies" part of the name also suggests Restoration wants to honor HeroQuest's history and perhaps create some variations on gameplay that take this history into account. It could also mean that whatever it is will use a legacy system, meaning an ongoing campaign could be in the cards.
This news comes after many years of the HeroQuest IP lying dormant. HeroQuest was originally a collaboration between Games Workshop and Milton Bradley, and the modern WarhammerQuest line is intended as a spiritual successor to the original game. Games Workshop allowed the HeroQuest trademark to elapse, and it was then picked up by tabletop RPG designer Greg Stafford, who used it as the name of an RPG system. After Stafford's death in 2018, his IP were picked up by Moon Design Publications, who have since taken legal action against a HeroQuest board game.

Why is a new HeroQuest game coming now?
According to Reddit user corporat, Moon Design and Restoration could have made an agreement. HeroQuest, the tabletop RPG Stafford created, has been renamed to QuestWorlds, paving the way for a new HeroQuest board game. A sister RPG product, HeroQuest: Glorantha, was planned, but Moon Design has registered a trademark for the name Hero Wars, which was the name Stafford's RPG had before it was called HeroQuest. All signs point to Restoration Games having the rights to produce a HeroQuest board game, so whatever Legacies is, it's safe to get excited about it if you're a HeroQuest fan.

https://trademarks.justia.com/900/31/heroquest-90031594.html

Hmm, what about the valid (at least in Spain) ownership by the as yet to deliver KS company?

Please let this happen. Just this one thing....and Space Crusade!

OMG, that would be the most super thing ever.

indeed.

*bargepole image*

Cannot see any further details on relevant media yet.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Hmm, what about the valid (at least in Spain) ownership by the as yet to deliver KS company?

Good question. Depends on how well the IP protection in Spain can be enforced outside (and possibly inside) of Spain, and who will have to enforce it. Also, depends, of course, on the advice Restoration Games has from whatever lawyer they consult -- including themelves. Restoration games has a history of acquiring licenses for nostalgia-heavy games.

Donny : "Knowing the people in charge of Restoration Games, there's a practically nil chance they applied for a trademark without already having all their ducks in a row with Chaosium. And there's no way they aren't aware of the situation with the "25th" Anniversary Edition.

Andrew: "Preciously. Justin is an attorney. Rob is a master designer. AND, they have Mike Gray on their team. If anyone is going to do a new vision of HeroQuest - it's Restoration."

Thread on BGG, of course. : https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2470697/new-heroquest

HQ still has one mechanic I haven't seen in other dungeoncrawlers. When you searched (and there was nothing to find per the adventure), you drew from a generic search deck. The deck had treasures and traps. If you drew a treasure, you "redeemed" it and removed it from the deck. But if it was a trap, you returned it to the deck! Also, while the Elf could cast spells, the Wizard has the first pick of which spells to take. You can easily find other dungeoncrawlers with similar dice mechanics, but most dungeoncrawlers have more complicated mechanics and are not targetted towards young children and non-players.

This may still be a year or more away, though. They're still working on the Dark Tower boardgame.

I would say this is another Confrontation or gamezone heroquest debacle in the making but the company behind it did good with Fireball island and seams to be with Dark Tower.

Aye, it was surprising to see they have Dark Tower in the works. I hear thats a classic.

Id love to see a new Omega Virus game.

SamusDrake wrote:
Aye, it was surprising to see they have Dark Tower in the works. I hear thats a classic.

"Dark Tower is a 1981 electronic board game by Milton Bradley Company" -- Wiki

"HeroQuest, an adventure board game by Milton Bradley and Games Workshop;" -- Wiki

So... I guess if you can negotiate the rights to a game from one company, you can negotiate another game from them. GW, of course has licensed its IP to various other companies (eg. FFG), including small hobby companies.

 Lance845 wrote:
Id love to see a new Omega Virus game.

OMG THIS. I had forgotten what the hell the game was called. I played the hell out of that and Hero Quest.

Oh and Battlemasters. God damn they made some awesome gak that aged terribly.

 ced1106 wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Hmm, what about the valid (at least in Spain) ownership by the as yet to deliver KS company?

Good question. Depends on how well the IP protection in Spain can be enforced outside (and possibly inside) of Spain, and who will have to enforce it. Also, depends, of course, on the advice Restoration Games has from whatever lawyer they consult -- including themelves. Restoration games has a history of acquiring licenses for nostalgia-heavy games.

That would be the EU outside our borders, and inside it would be our own agency, which tends to the draconian end of the spectrum.

That said, it would depend completely on what did Gamezone register exactly, as there is a whole range of possibilities, and even if they licensed the HQ name for a boardgame you'd be free to use it for other purposes (for example, the RPG).

In this case, if they manage to license the original game from Milton Bradley and GW I think they'd have no problem, as it would be a rerelease of something that already has a license.

 ced1106 wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Aye, it was surprising to see they have Dark Tower in the works. I hear thats a classic.

"Dark Tower is a 1981 electronic board game by Milton Bradley Company" -- Wiki

"HeroQuest, an adventure board game by Milton Bradley and Games Workshop;" -- Wiki

So... I guess if you can negotiate the rights to a game from one company, you can negotiate another game from them. GW, of course has licensed its IP to various other companies (eg. FFG), including small hobby companies.

It certainly seems that way. Good times ahead!

If GW and MB are not on board then they can't really make a sequel to Heroes Quest due to copyright issues.

That being said most of the elements (Barbarian, Elf, Wizard, Dungeon, Monster) are public domain and presumably they'd be replacing all the art and miniatures.

The game rules themselves would be copyrighted but again the concepts like attack, defense, experience, treasure cannot be copyrighted. I don't remember HQ having any unique rule ideas that might cause issues there. Nor do I recall HQ having a storyline or fluff that cannot be reskinned in a generic way.

So, it's possible. The biggest problem I see is if their art hews too closely to the GW/MB game there is potential for copyright issues if it seems a derivative work.

IE I can make a science fiction movie about a boy who answers the call to adventure, but I cannot make a Star Wars sequel. Even if I somehow got the rights to the name Star Wars, there would be issues if it was a stealth sequel. Even if I rename everyone Dirk Starflier and Hank Loner or whatever.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IIRC the Spanish Kick Starter never delivered and the owner was accused of fraud.

I don't know Spanish or EU trademark law but under US law you have to be using a name to claim it as a trademark. The fact you intended to use it several years ago but your company is now out of business would not be enough.

I believe that's how GW/MB 'lost' the name. If trademarks are not used for a product in X years the name is open, though other elements like the art and logo are protected for (many!) decades by copyright.

Makes me wonder what other names GW has not used in a long time...

Oi Dats Me Leg, Trolls in the Pantry, Mighty Empires, Space Fleet, Kruuuuunch, Epic...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Y'know thinking about it, the genericness of the story and characters may work AGAINST Restoration Games in any copyright based challenge.

Assuming Legacies is a similar game GW can claim that it is therefore a sequel/derived work that steps on their copyrights. The original game's story line was an elf, barbarian and wizard go into a dungeon for treasure and if HQL's story is anything like that then it would seem to be a derived work. Even if they name all the characters and change genders around and update the character designs.

Now Restoration can make a super hero game called Heroes Quest, or a game with hoppy bunnies or basically anything not involving a dungeon crawl with that name. But a dungeon crawl named Heroes Quest Legacies could be open to a copyright challenge even if the trademark is in the clear.

My amateur lawyer 2 yen.

SamusDrake wrote:
Aye, it was surprising to see they have Dark Tower in the works. I hear thats a classic.

I have a working Dark Tower game. It's not very good as an actual game - the electronic part is pretty feeble, especially in this day and age. It was just a gimmick, unfortunately, that hid a rather poorly designed game overall.

 Stormonu wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Aye, it was surprising to see they have Dark Tower in the works. I hear thats a classic.

I have a working Dark Tower game. It's not very good as an actual game - the electronic part is pretty feeble, especially in this day and age. It was just a gimmick, unfortunately, that hid a rather poorly designed game overall.

Resoration Games seems to have an eye on that as well. They seem to be improving the game rather than taking a straight copy.

That aside there was something to be said about the evocative nature of board games in the 90s, but they have to try harder these days to compete with cell phones and other media.

 Stormonu wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Aye, it was surprising to see they have Dark Tower in the works. I hear thats a classic.

I have a working Dark Tower game. It's not very good as an actual game - the electronic part is pretty feeble, especially in this day and age. It was just a gimmick, unfortunately, that hid a rather poorly designed game overall.

Good to have another opinion. I wonder if Restoration will improve on it or have done on any of its games?

SamusDrake wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Aye, it was surprising to see they have Dark Tower in the works. I hear thats a classic.

I have a working Dark Tower game. It's not very good as an actual game - the electronic part is pretty feeble, especially in this day and age. It was just a gimmick, unfortunately, that hid a rather poorly designed game overall.

Good to have another opinion. I wonder if Restoration will improve on it or have done on any of its games?

I was very temped to get in on the KS for the new Dark Tower, but was short on funds at the time. They really look like they were going to take it up a notch and had planned a lot of very interesting add-ons.

Restoration Games did attempt to fix problems that the original games (eg. Fireball Island) had. I think they recognize that the nostalgia will attract the gamers, but they need to have good mechanics to keep them. Unfortunately, Fireball Island had other problems (I think the game couldn't be put back into the box, and a review said gameplay was on the boring side??).

As for HQ, given the debacle of HQ26 on BGG because the HQ25 creator, GameZone, did not show written permission from Hasbro, I doubt Restoration would want their reputation tarnished because they didn't acquire the IP rights correctly. Some BGG'ers will expect them to acknowledge the original game designer or have him do some designing for the game. One of the owners is a lawyer obviously experienced in game IP rights, so it's not like they wouldn't know how they could license the game. They've filed IP whatevers on other nostalgic games, so it's not like if HQ fell through they wouldn't have some other project to work on. For all we know, they worked on Fireball Island and Dark Tower first only because they secured the licenses.

HQ *does* have to compete with other dungeoncrawlers, but HQ can stand out as a children's or gateway game. They could even have an expansion that adds the complexity that hobby gamers want.

If they can figure out a way to get the IP secured with GW as it stands, what's to stop them from wrapping up Advanced Hero Quest into the mix as an add on?

I know board layout/ progression was quite different, but keeping a more basic crawler and building up a more hardcore/random/roguelike "advanced" mode for lack of a better term as an add on would be a smart way to do it.

The most Dakka-est question will be though, are the minis going to be worth it? There's no denying the GW style was a big draw back in the day for many of us.

All I'll say is if this comes to KSer and the Bard isn't doing their intro video you know not to back it.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
If they can figure out a way to get the IP secured with GW as it stands, what's to stop them from wrapping up Advanced Hero Quest into the mix as an add on?

I know board layout/ progression was quite different, but keeping a more basic crawler and building up a more hardcore/random/roguelike "advanced" mode for lack of a better term as an add on would be a smart way to do it.

The most Dakka-est question will be though, are the minis going to be worth it? There's no denying the GW style was a big draw back in the day for many of us.

That would be great! I have Advanced HeroQuest and its miniature variety was paltry. The only monsters were Skaven and all the figures were the same sculpt!

Yeah, mini's. If they get the rights for the Fimirs, then they'd have unique sculpts, but I've been backing Bones, Black List Games, and Massive Darkness, so have plenty of generic monsters.

Reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/hxw4v0/heroquest_legacies_trademark_application/

I doubt they will get the rights to the Fimir- given the troublesome original lore, I suspect GW will want to control exactly how they are depicted. (Keep in mind I'm a big proponent of the return of the Fimir. I bet the minis would be incredible given how the forgeworld model reboot looks. But for me Forgeworld isn't an option.)

My dream (that will not come true) is that GW ends up making the minis for whatever reason.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
IIRC the Spanish Kick Starter never delivered and the owner was accused of fraud.

I don't know Spanish or EU trademark law but under US law you have to be using a name to claim it as a trademark. The fact you intended to use it several years ago but your company is now out of business would not be enough.

I believe that's how GW/MB 'lost' the name. If trademarks are not used for a product in X years the name is open, though other elements like the art and logo are protected for (many!) decades by copyright.

Makes me wonder what other names GW has not used in a long time...

Oi Dats Me Leg, Trolls in the Pantry, Mighty Empires, Space Fleet, Kruuuuunch, Epic....

Interesting thought there..
Though not Mighty Empires as the last thing branded that was like 10 years ago.

 ced1106 wrote:

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
If they can figure out a way to get the IP secured with GW as it stands, what's to stop them from wrapping up Advanced Hero Quest into the mix as an add on?

I know board layout/ progression was quite different, but keeping a more basic crawler and building up a more hardcore/random/roguelike "advanced" mode for lack of a better term as an add on would be a smart way to do it.

The most Dakka-est question will be though, are the minis going to be worth it? There's no denying the GW style was a big draw back in the day for many of us.

That would be great! I have Advanced HeroQuest and its miniature variety was paltry. The only monsters were Skaven and all the figures were the same sculpt!

Yeah, mini's. If they get the rights for the Fimirs, then they'd have unique sculpts, but I've been backing Bones, Black List Games, and Massive Darkness, so have plenty of generic monsters.

Reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/boardgames/comments/hxw4v0/heroquest_legacies_trademark_application/

Advanced Hero Quest was very much a starter box, with the implication that you could flesh it out with additional Games Workshop / Citadel miniatures. The rule book had rules for vast amounts of models.

The entire MO of Restoration Games is taking old games we remember from our youths, updating them enough that they're playable today, and keeping as much of the original feel of the games as possible. If they do Hero Quest, they'll absolutely have all the licenses in place to make it like the original. They'll also probably focus on that, not Advanced Hero Quest, which while the better game, wasn't the game most people played.

deano2099 wrote:
The entire MO of Restoration Games is taking old games we remember from our youths, updating them enough that they're playable today, and keeping as much of the original feel of the games as possible. If they do Hero Quest, they'll absolutely have all the licenses in place to make it like the original. They'll also probably focus on that, not Advanced Hero Quest, which while the better game, wasn't the game most people played.

But that means getting rights from MB and GW for a game that while dead is not forgotten. It's a bigger ask then half remembered games like Dark Fireball and Tower Island (or whatever they were called, I vaguely recall ads for them from 30+ years ago).

That being said, yeah, unlike the HQ25 effort they do seem to pay for trademarks and copyrights rather than try and snatch expired ones, which for the reasons I mentioned could be problematic.

I really don't see why they can't make it. I want to explain two things:

1. I dunno about any clause with FFG but when their licence expired, GW began allowing more companies to make physical games based on their IP. Best I can think of are the Heroes of Normandy and Dicemasters' takes on Grimdark, and Pegasus Spiele branching out Talisman, with OP making two kid friendly(?) versions.

2. Look at the characters. There are no Aelves, Duardin, Grots, Orruks, Daemon Princes, Ossiarchs or the Tomb Queen. The only problems I see are the Chaos Warrior and Warlock. which can be generic evil knights and mages, and the Fimir, which Restoration can easily replace.

GW mentioned the game in one of their articles about Blackstone Fortress. That means they still remember it, and their fans still remember it. The only real obstacle is Hasbro, who may only remember Magic the Gathering 5E(I know what I typed), and may only want people to remember it....

 Lance845 wrote:
Id love to see a new Omega Virus game.

In the trademarks link above, they DO have the trademark on Omega Virus now

 porkuslime wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Id love to see a new Omega Virus game.

In the trademarks link above, they DO have the trademark on Omega Virus now

fething YES!