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the_scotsman wrote:

1) Do the veterans that come in the command squad box get some kind of special-snowflake boltgun currently?

No.

2) does the captain, basic captain, currently have A4?

Yes.



Also, why are these being drip fed? Can't someone just open a bloody tactical box to see their sheet, or has those not been updated yet?

Ok, I must have just lost track of the many many captains out there.

Yeah it definitely feels like the fact that these are 1 per day lends itself to being a purposeful pot-stirring.

And the particular order as well, it seems like they're releasing them carefully to maximise how excited people get about their marine stuff. Releasing the tactical squad sheet woudl give us stats for all the special, heavy, and basic weapons all at once...gotta drip feed instead.

Definitely feels like it's a managed drip feed atm, they must have known these sorts of changes would result in the ridiculous volume of comments and backlash we've seen on here.

Better to eek it out now discretely than have a public argument when we can do it for them.

Or possibly to avoid the inevitable shock that would occur all at once were the rules section of the codex to leak. or some store owner to actually get his hands on all the new boxes and leak them all at once.

the_scotsman wrote:
Or possibly to avoid the inevitable shock that would occur all at once were the rules section of the codex to leak. or some store owner to actually get his hands on all the new boxes and leak them all at once.

There's also just the stock chain in general to think of.

I can't imagine too many people are selling through huge stacks of Tactical Marines these days. Necrons basically are nonexistent for stock right now though, so any restocks are likely to be the new stuff.

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Or possibly to avoid the inevitable shock that would occur all at once were the rules section of the codex to leak. or some store owner to actually get his hands on all the new boxes and leak them all at once.

There's also just the stock chain in general to think of.

I can't imagine too many people are selling through huge stacks of Tactical Marines these days. Necrons basically are nonexistent for stock right now though, so any restocks are likely to be the new stuff.

Yeah because space marine command squads are such a hot button item? and tactical freakin' termies?


I'm kind of not buying the "marines sell all the everything" argument quiiiiiite as much after the contents of the blind boxes got revealed and it was like...85% brand new marine character boxes they made and then didn't sell.

the_scotsman wrote:

+3S master-crafted power sword

I think that's the Company Champions special sword/a relic blade.

Mastercrafted Powerswords are still there (3), they're +1S/AP-3/D2 just like they are now for Bladeguard Vet's.

the_scotsman wrote:
Or possibly to avoid the inevitable shock that would occur all at once were the rules section of the codex to leak. or some store owner to actually get his hands on all the new boxes and leak them all at once.

Can you imagine if they had kept this under lid and we only saw it all a week before the codex? Crazy town.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Or possibly to avoid the inevitable shock that would occur all at once were the rules section of the codex to leak. or some store owner to actually get his hands on all the new boxes and leak them all at once.

Can you imagine if they had kept this under lid and we only saw it all a week before the codex? Crazy town.

At least there would only be 1 week of people crying for boycotts of marine players, yelling OP at stuff and generally overreacting.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Or possibly to avoid the inevitable shock that would occur all at once were the rules section of the codex to leak. or some store owner to actually get his hands on all the new boxes and leak them all at once.

There's also just the stock chain in general to think of.

I can't imagine too many people are selling through huge stacks of Tactical Marines these days. Necrons basically are nonexistent for stock right now though, so any restocks are likely to be the new stuff.

Yeah because space marine command squads are such a hot button item? and tactical freakin' termies?


I'm kind of not buying the "marines sell all the everything" argument quiiiiiite as much after the contents of the blind boxes got revealed and it was like...85% brand new marine character boxes they made and then didn't sell.

Someone bought a Command Squad and Tactical Terminators to get these rules, right? Those items are sold in relatively small quantities to start with and aren't exactly "regular stock" for most places, as far as I've seen.

Not shocked about the characters though.

 MinscS2 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

+3S master-crafted power sword

I think that's the Company Champions special sword/a relic blade.

Mastercrafted Powerswords are still there (3), they're +1S/AP-3/D2 just like they are now for Bladeguard Vet's.

So, if a space marine model comes at me with something the correct size to be a sword, it could have one of the following statlines:

+1S -3AP 1d
+1S -3AP 2d
+3S -3AP 2d
+1S -3AP d3d (Force Sword, I suppose I am making the assumption this is still in the game)
+2S -3AP 2D (Vanguard Veteran Item #1)

Any number of half a dozen odd power sword replacing relic items that do various things
Any number of special character specific power sword items

Good cool glad theres a lot of clarity and consistency in the rules.

the_scotsman wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

+3S master-crafted power sword

I think that's the Company Champions special sword/a relic blade.

Mastercrafted Powerswords are still there (3), they're +1S/AP-3/D2 just like they are now for Bladeguard Vet's.

So, if a space marine model comes at me with something the correct size to be a sword, it could have one of the following statlines:

+1S -3AP 1d
+1S -3AP 2d
+3S -3AP 2d
+1S -3AP d3d (Force Sword, I suppose I am making the assumption this is still in the game)
+2S -3AP 2D (Vanguard Veteran Item #1)

Any number of half a dozen odd power sword replacing relic items that do various things
Any number of special character specific power sword items

Good cool glad theres a lot of clarity and consistency in the rules.

What's with the attitude? I wasn't being snarky.

As for what's what, that should be evidently clear by the real unit entry and weapon rules once released; it's not like people will actually play with these compressed datasheets.
Can a veteran have a force sword? No? So then it's probably not a force sword. Can a Librarian have a Relic Blade? No? Then it's probably not a Relic Blade either.
There are already several "sword-sized-swords" in the SM-codex and have been for years (Forcesword, Powersword, Relicblade, Mastercrafted Powersword), but it's not like it's a common issue that they get mixed up together by the players, so why would it be in 9th?

But you probably knew this already.

This isn't exactly the command squad box, and that captain doesn't exist separately (anymore?)

Its the 'Space Marine Company Command'
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Company-Command-2016

which personally I didn't even know existed. My first reaction to that datasheet was to dismiss it as a fake, since the command squad doesn't have a captain (or the relic blade or plasma pistol). But this box actually exists.

-----
This is also a summary of 5 separate real datasheets currently. The Vets are interesting since they have a _lot_ of weapon options on their current datasheet. Some of which aren't in the box.
Which makes me wonder if all of them will surivive. Obviously the special weapons will, because they're pictured. The rest (especially storm shields)...?

Voss wrote:
This isn't exactly the command squad box, and that captain doesn't exist separately (anymore?)

Its the 'Space Marine Company Command'
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Company-Command-2016

which personally I didn't even know existed. My first reaction to that datasheet was to dismiss it as a fake, since the command squad doesn't have a captain (or the relic blade or plasma pistol). But this box actually exists.

Oh wait, it's that box?!

That thing was a repack of the Shadow Force Solaq box Captain and had been Direct Only for quite some time...although amusingly it's now "No Longer Available Online".

The cron thread has the stuff for immortals/deathmarks, t5, 30" gauss blasters. Deathmarks are t5 bs 2+ heavy 1 36" s5 ap -2 now.

Only 1 wound

Immortals should have been two wounds.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Voss wrote:
This isn't exactly the command squad box, and that captain doesn't exist separately (anymore?)

Its the 'Space Marine Company Command'
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Space-Marine-Company-Command-2016

which personally I didn't even know existed. My first reaction to that datasheet was to dismiss it as a fake, since the command squad doesn't have a captain (or the relic blade or plasma pistol). But this box actually exists.

Oh wait, it's that box?!

That thing was a repack of the Shadow Force Solaq box Captain and had been Direct Only for quite some time...although amusingly it's now "No Longer Available Online".

Yeah. I vaguely remember the contender for 'worst SM helmet' now.
Its unavailable here, but still seems to be on the UK site. Despite those command squad sprues really showing their age.
But presumably whoever posted the pic is over there (and for some reason wanted to buy Wing-face)

 Crimson wrote:
Immortals should have been two wounds.

At least they got their toughness back, and a blaster upgrade.
I'm vaguely curious if the toughness increase will turn out to be a boon in the face of people scrambling to focus on 2D weapons.

 Crimson wrote:
Immortals should have been two wounds.

Depends what reanimation protocols become.

If Immortals are still 1 wound then is it more likely that tac marines and regular CSM stay at 1 wound too?

 Crimson wrote:
Immortals should have been two wounds.

It does sort of undermine "paradigm shift" as an idea, even if its a reasonable buff.

The "paradigm shift" is that the hero faction gets to be even more of the hero faction. Aren't you excited? I know I am!

yukishiro1 wrote:
The "paradigm shift" is that the hero faction gets to be even more of the hero faction. Aren't you excited? I know I am!

I would LOVE for them to genuinely be well written costed and presented as a multi-wound army, not sure that'll be possible but even then the thought of marines getting to the point where they can be tough and capable in all phases but not so good that they're unbeatable is nice. Even just extra wounds on marines and their points going up cuts the number of guns and reduces their offensive output (in theory) so you're back to being OK at a lot of stuff but their defining trait being hard to bring down with small arms.

Well we should at least wait for the new RP rules. However, T5 Immortals makes me hot, AND did anyone notice they're A2 now? It ain't much but still.

Dudeface wrote:
I would LOVE for them to genuinely be well written costed and presented as a multi-wound army

Ultimately, an army with two wounds has a lot going for them.
/meme

It is a paradigm shift to the Old Space Marines, making them more "elite" as in the fluff.

Given even SM vehicles we have seen are not buffed, it is not a game wide paradigm shift, not even a Space Marine Codex wide shift as most of these changes are limited to the OldMarines.

T5 immortals?

Wow, Necrons have almost gotten back what they lost in 5th...

"Sarge, should I overcharge the plasma gun?"

"Ehhhhhh.....nah, I mean...it's just a necron immortal, I don't really think it'll make any difference, just normal power will be fine. It's not like it's something tough, defined by being a faction of nearly impossible to bring down death robots."

"Got it sarge. I - oh god! Sarge! Standing on that necron's corpse! It's...a sp-sp-space marine, and he's got v-v-v-v-v-eteran stripes on his shoulderpad!"

"OH MAN, OH GOD, OH MAN, CRANK IT TO THE MAX JENKINS, I'LL NOTIFY YOUR NEXT OF KIN!!!"

 MinscS2 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

+3S master-crafted power sword

I think that's the Company Champions special sword/a relic blade.

Mastercrafted Powerswords are still there (3), they're +1S/AP-3/D2 just like they are now for Bladeguard Vet's.

Nope, it's Captain Eagleface's sword. You can see his eagleface in the shot.

Space Marine Redemptor Instruction Sheet:

Weird.

HOGC stays at 12, but bumps strength while the OGC goes to 8 at S5.
Heavy flamer doesn't go to 12", but is now S6.
The non-overcharged plasma is D2. D3 now for OC?