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I mean, do they? You can literally take an ork's head, slap it back on their neck and stitch it together and he survives. That's what they just did to ghazghkull.
It sure doesn't SEEM like physiologically an astartes is hardier. And honestly, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense for orks to have blood period, their insides ought to be spongy fungal tissue.
The main reasoning I don't think T4 W2 is a good model for orks is because it introduces a weakness to D2 weaponry that I don't think makes any sense, and I also don't want to give up the orks' identity as having a significant numerical advantage over their opponents. A w2 ork boy would probably be a ~10pt model, compared to like a 13pt necron warrior it just doesn't seem like the armies would be distinct enough.
Nobs are currently W2 boyz, they wouldn't have to be T6. They could retain the same stat differential as now.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Honestly i'd like corsairs before exodites, simply because it would lend itself also better as a tie in body and bridge to ynnari and is a far more customizable force....
Exodites were hinted at in the PA books to becoming more active, or at least the younger Exodites that seem to have been inspired by the Ynnari. So it could easily be written that the Exodites start venturing forth into the Webway instead of just acting as defenders of their own worlds.
the_scotsman wrote: I mean, do they? You can literally take an ork's head, slap it back on their neck and stitch it together and he survives. That's what they just did to ghazghkull.
It sure doesn't SEEM like physiologically an astartes is hardier. And honestly, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense for orks to have blood period, their insides ought to be spongy fungal tissue.
The main reasoning I don't think T4 W2 is a good model for orks is because it introduces a weakness to D2 weaponry that I don't think makes any sense, and I also don't want to give up the orks' identity as having a significant numerical advantage over their opponents. A w2 ork boy would probably be a ~10pt model, compared to like a 13pt necron warrior it just doesn't seem like the armies would be distinct enough.
Nobs are currently W2 boyz, they wouldn't have to be T6. They could retain the same stat differential as now.
I can see the argument for giving orks 2 wounds but as you say I think it takes away form their identity a little too much and it's even further devaluing guardsmen back into being worth essentially nothing.
There are a lot more marine players then eldar players. You think that a sports school is going to invest the same money in to something like gymnastics and football. And more then half the people play w40k version of blue. In fact from what people working for GW been saying about the marine sells, they out sell whole other game systems GW has.
The problem with this is that it eventually becomes a self full-filling prophecy. Marines do sell more, and will likely always sell more, so marines get more. I don't think anyone has an issue with that. The problem starts to happen when marines get an unprecedented string of releases that happens steadily over the course of a few YEARS when armies like Eldar and DE get ... well ... pretty much nothing.
A new player walks into a LGS in 2020 and wants to start an army. He starts looking at Dark Eldar. What's he likely to hear? "Well, they haven't really been updated in years now. The game just kicked off 9th ed and their last major update was in 5th. Since then, they've only lost units with each codex release, and the current codex is a borderline incoherent mess ..."
Not only is all of that true, it's not even hyperbolic. So do you think that player is likely to pick them up? How different would it be if that player heard "Oh yeah, they got a major revamp in 5th and have had a nice little addition in each edition change since. Not quite as many as marines, but their characters are all fleshed out and cool, and the codex really shows off the different aspects of their army very well."
As for 2021 -
I'd be surprised if they did WE and EC. GW as a whole doesn't really know what to do with Slaanesh and probably wishes it could go away somehow and the people in the studio currently don't seem to look at WE as anything other than "Raaaaargh! KILLLLLLLLL" style berzerkers. They are still stuck in that "Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain" mode of thinking when it comes to CSM so I wouldn't hold out too much hope until the studio gets someone who can be a better advocate for Chaos than the current crop of designers.
I don't play Eldar, but I echo everyone else when I say it's about time for plastic aspect warriors. Would also like to see them fix Drukhari and make them a actual functioning army again.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
lower poplation through lack of support --> even lower sales and population, aka cut costs in order to maintain earnings --> even lower support even less sales etc...
SoB are probably a premiere exemple.
GW failing to recognize that pattern is one half, the other half is, the ammount of investment to create a new marine unit will probably be massively cheaper simply through Digitalised files and placement on sprues for body parts alone then to make a whole new unit for say aspects which probably all still hail pre digital modeling.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
the_scotsman wrote: I mean, do they? You can literally take an ork's head, slap it back on their neck and stitch it together and he survives. That's what they just did to ghazghkull.
It sure doesn't SEEM like physiologically an astartes is hardier. And honestly, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense for orks to have blood period, their insides ought to be spongy fungal tissue.
The main reasoning I don't think T4 W2 is a good model for orks is because it introduces a weakness to D2 weaponry that I don't think makes any sense, and I also don't want to give up the orks' identity as having a significant numerical advantage over their opponents. A w2 ork boy would probably be a ~10pt model, compared to like a 13pt necron warrior it just doesn't seem like the armies would be distinct enough.
Nobs are currently W2 boyz, they wouldn't have to be T6. They could retain the same stat differential as now.
I can see the argument for giving orks 2 wounds but as you say I think it takes away form their identity a little too much and it's even further devaluing guardsmen back into being worth essentially nothing.
Don’t Orks have a strategy or something that allows you to bring a load of slain units back to life?
GW painted them selves into a corner. On the one hand they’ve made Orks out the be like these mega hulking fang toothed monsters that’s can tear your arms out your sockets but then they have also made out that they are a shambling group of moronic brutes who’s only real advantage is their numbers.
I think the coming back to life thing suits them but as SM have gone to 2 wounds Orks need something else. Either an extra wound or the ability for troop units to regenerate fallen soldiers every round as they self heal. Even if the unit is wiped out. Either that or they need a points drop so you can get even more on the table.
I also think 1 model in a ork troop Init should be able to evolve into a Nob if a HQ unit within 10 inches is killed, or something like that.
mrFickle wrote: Don’t Orks have a strategy or something that allows you to bring a load of slain units back to life?
No. We have "Unstoppable Green tide" for 3CP -
Use this Stratagem at the end of your Movement phase. Select a unit of Boyz from your army that has less than half its starting number of models and remove it from the battlefield. You can then set it up again wholly within 6" of the edge of the battlefield and more than 9" from any enemy models, at its full starting strength. You cannot select a unit for this Stratagem that has been merged via the Mob Up Stratagem. You can only use this Stratagem once per battle.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 14:00:42
I really don't think dual kits would do aspect warriors justice, the only thing they have in common is that they're aspect warriors and eldar, so they share the same bodies and then what? They're all unique in terms of weapons, runes, armour, helmets and other trinkets, a dual kit wouldn't actually be any good in preserving their flavour.
Regarding whether some armies need it more or not, Eldar do more than Orks and Guard. 15 year old plus sculpts that are still in finecast need it more.
Depends on how they do it, if you get partial legs/torsos that then get a different shin (think shin plates of full kit Aggressors) and chestplates etc. They can reduce the kit, while still making them fairly unique.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 14:08:19
Marshal Loss wrote: I'm hopeful for EC finally getting their time in the sun. Years of hints aside, the impending Slaanesh mortals in AoS & Direchasm have me thinking that 2021 might finally be my year.
At the very least, give me some damn Noise Marines...
A plastic Noise Marine kit - plus the return of Doomrider! - is something that's definitely needed, even if an EC book isn't immediately forthcoming.
Marshal Loss wrote: Other than that I'll put my foot on the Eldar bandwagon. Wouldn't be surprised to see them arriving at around the same time as EC. Absolutely no idea how they could handle the release though because Eldar need an absurd number of kits.
I suspect the sort of Eldar revamp that people think is needed is probably one that needs to be split over a couple of waves. Even just replacing the existing Finecast would be a big release, let alone adding new units.
I'm not sure whether I'd go for an Aspect wave and an "other Finecast" wave, or do part of each in each, admittedly. Either way, I'd have a plastic Shining Spears upgrade sprue near the top of the list, given how simple that should be (either with options for an Exarch on the sprue, or a clampack Exarch release.)
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Don’t Orks have a strategy or something that allows you to bring a load of slain units back to life?
No, as usual you're thinking of Space Marines.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
A plastic Noise Marine kit - plus the return of Doomrider! - is something that's definitely needed, even if an EC book isn't immediately forthcoming.
Ha! They've hinted that Doomrider is currently one of the exhibits in Trazyn's collection. Would be hilarious to see a story where he breaks out of his vault and just runs amok through the gallery! Plus, silly as Doomrider's concept is, they could probably do a pretty bad a@@ model of him with the current technology!
And yeah - I know I said I didn't think we'd see a EC book, but plastic Noise Marines would be good.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
Marshal Loss wrote: I'm hopeful for EC finally getting their time in the sun. Years of hints aside, the impending Slaanesh mortals in AoS & Direchasm have me thinking that 2021 might finally be my year.
At the very least, give me some damn Noise Marines...
A plastic Noise Marine kit - plus the return of Doomrider! - is something that's definitely needed, even if an EC book isn't immediately forthcoming.
Marshal Loss wrote: Other than that I'll put my foot on the Eldar bandwagon. Wouldn't be surprised to see them arriving at around the same time as EC. Absolutely no idea how they could handle the release though because Eldar need an absurd number of kits.
I suspect the sort of Eldar revamp that people think is needed is probably one that needs to be split over a couple of waves. Even just replacing the existing Finecast would be a big release, let alone adding new units.
I'm not sure whether I'd go for an Aspect wave and an "other Finecast" wave, or do part of each in each, admittedly. Either way, I'd have a plastic Shining Spears upgrade sprue near the top of the list, given how simple that should be (either with options for an Exarch on the sprue, or a clampack Exarch release.)
Again, only an unmanageably big release if you don't think about the fact that marines got 3 release waves that size or bigger since the launch of 8th.
surely "1/3 of the number of kits that the most up-to-date faction got over the course of 1 edition" after eldar havent had a major release since early 7th ed isn't so much to ask.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
A plastic Noise Marine kit - plus the return of Doomrider! - is something that's definitely needed, even if an EC book isn't immediately forthcoming.
Ha! They've hinted that Doomrider is currently one of the exhibits in Trazyn's collection. Would be hilarious to see a story where he breaks out of his vault and just runs amok through the gallery! Plus, silly as Doomrider's concept is, they could probably do a pretty bad a@@ model of him with the current technology!
And yeah - I know I said I didn't think we'd see a EC book, but plastic Noise Marines would be good.
Doomrider was "killed" & his still-living head taken by Kor'sarro Khan back to Chogoris in a 2014 Audio Drama - not that any past fiction would stop him coming back if GW decide to give him a new model. With the quality of all the recent CSM sculpts, a new Doomrider could be incredible
Don’t Orks have a strategy or something that allows you to bring a load of slain units back to life?
No, as usual you're thinking of Space Marines.
As usual you're confusing space marines with necrons.
Apothecaries can revive 1 model.
1 model with fewer restrictions than any comparable Necrons unit. Go figure.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
People say Eldar need an absurd number of new kits.
But Necrons have just got 18 new models/kits by my rough maths, including new characters, squads, vehicles etc .
Now an Eldar redo including new basic Guardians, all the Aspects and all the Phoenix Lords and a new Avatar comes out at 17 kits by my quick count.
Also assuming no dual kits etc.
Now thats under the number of new stuff Necrons just got!
It hardly seems unreasonable now.
Especially when Eldar need this redo way more than the Necrons did.
A plastic Noise Marine kit - plus the return of Doomrider! - is something that's definitely needed, even if an EC book isn't immediately forthcoming.
Ha! They've hinted that Doomrider is currently one of the exhibits in Trazyn's collection. Would be hilarious to see a story where he breaks out of his vault and just runs amok through the gallery! Plus, silly as Doomrider's concept is, they could probably do a pretty bad a@@ model of him with the current technology!
And yeah - I know I said I didn't think we'd see a EC book, but plastic Noise Marines would be good.
Who is doom rider, is there a link?
An EC army would be easy to develop I’d have thought, lots of noise weapons.
The thing about Trazyns vault is that every thing is in there, even a clone of fulgrim which was mentioned in one of the recent necron adverts. I mean you could use that vault as an excuse to produce any unit.
There is a krork, thunder warriors, I bet there are ancient ones in there.
dan2026 wrote: Thinking about it, wouldn’t it make sense for Orks to go to 2W in their new book?
They are supposed to be tough as nails and can shrug off absurd damage and keep fighting.
Keep the crappy 6+ save and up their wound count.
Feels like it makes sense.
Maybe. Personally, I would welcome smaller, more powerful units for more points but it would definitely change the entire feel of the army. 2W marines "feel" right when you play with or against them, I doubt that orks would feel right.
That said, most infantry units orks have don't work because they cost, fight and shoot as much as marines, but have the durability of guardsmen, so 2 wounds might be the solution to that.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
Doomrider was "killed" & his still-living head taken by Kor'sarro Khan back to Chogoris in a 2014 Audio Drama - not that any past fiction would stop him coming back if GW decide to give him a new model. With the quality of all the recent CSM sculpts, a new Doomrider could be incredible
Interesting. I did not know that. The current 'Cron dex, in Trazyn's fluff section mentions an exhibit he calls "Doomrider's Folly" ...
Thinking about it, wouldn’t it make sense for Orks to go to 2W in their new book?
They are supposed to be tough as nails and can shrug off absurd damage and keep fighting.
Keep the crappy 6+ save and up their wound count.
Feels like it makes sense.
No imo. I can see giving nobz and Warbosses, etc an additional wound or two, but not the boys. The fluff says Orks are capable of living through horrendous damage and surviving, but if you read anything involving Orks - the boys die very easily. The basic frontline boy is the smallest/weakest for of Ork (until you go a level down to grots etc), and seems to be put down fairly easily by most basic weapons. I always read this as - if you get a painboy out to the field soon enough post-battle, he can probably save some boys that, were they human, would already be very dead, but that it's really the nobz and up that can take that kind of hit and actually remain combat effective.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 14:54:36
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
Don’t Orks have a strategy or something that allows you to bring a load of slain units back to life?
No, as usual you're thinking of Space Marines.
As usual you're confusing space marines with necrons.
Apothecaries can revive 1 model.
1 model with fewer restrictions than any comparable Necrons unit. Go figure.
What are the comparable Necron units, and how do they operate with more restrictions?
I'll surmise this whole topic for you - Destroyers need a unit upgrade on a technomancer to be assured a revive but an apothecary can spend CP to revive an 8 wound ATV.
In short they're different resources and circumstances and I'd expect the ATV thing to be FAQ'd, so nothing to write home about. Marines 1-2 models revived a turn to theoretically most of a necron army, but one must marine bash where one can.
Doomrider was "killed" & his still-living head taken by Kor'sarro Khan back to Chogoris in a 2014 Audio Drama - not that any past fiction would stop him coming back if GW decide to give him a new model. With the quality of all the recent CSM sculpts, a new Doomrider could be incredible
Interesting. I did not know that. The current 'Cron dex, in Trazyn's fluff section mentions an exhibit he calls "Doomrider's Folly" ...
Thinking about it, wouldn’t it make sense for Orks to go to 2W in their new book?
They are supposed to be tough as nails and can shrug off absurd damage and keep fighting.
Keep the crappy 6+ save and up their wound count.
Feels like it makes sense.
No imo. I can see giving nobz and Warbosses, etc an additional wound or two, but not the boys. The fluff says Orks are capable of living through horrendous damage and surviving, but if you read anything involving Orks - the boys die very easily. The basic frontline boy is the smallest/weakest for of Ork (until you go a level down to grots etc), and seems to be put down fairly easily by most basic weapons. I always read this as - if you get a painboy out to the field soon enough post-battle, he can probably save some boys that, were they human, would already be very dead, but that it's really the nobz and up that can take that kind of hit and actually remain combat effective.
This is where I see the ork boyz, tougher yes, easy to patch up probably, but they're often noted to be killed by lasgun shots and mowed down by bolter fire whereas a marine takes a bolter round and keeps chugging a lot of the time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 15:03:03
Apothecary: 90pts+1CP
5A on the charge with an astartes chainsword
M6 T4 W4 Sv3+
Heals 2 models for 3 wounds, not CORE-limited
6" aura of non-CORE limited 6+FNP Returns 1 model from any INFANTRY or BIKER unit within 3" each turn.
Technomancer with Cloak: 80pts
M10 T4 W4 Sv4+
A1 with an AP-2 melee weapon
Assault 3 S5 AP-2 D1 18" range shooting weapon
Returns 1 model from any CORE unit within 6" each turn, or D3 warriors
Heals 1 model within 3" for D3 wounds.
Honestly, other than the Necron CORE system sucking absolute donkey ass, the cryptek and Chief apothecary seem relatively comparable.
6+FNP on the apothecary is nice, sure, and if you happen to be within range of 2 units each with a wounded model you can heal twice, but the cryptek has a ranged attack which I'd say he's more likely to be able to actually safely use, he moves 4" faster with FLY, and the apothecary costs 10pts more and 1CP unless you figure you're going to resurrect so rarely you think you'll only use it once.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Honestly, I think the whole revival thing for the apothecary is a side show. I'd just run him totally naked for the FNP. You only need to save like 4 wounds on average with the FNP to make his points back, and then you can spend 1cp to revive a biker or terminator and maybe heal a wound or two...
just on the fact that the Apoth has a more broadly useful passive defensive ability i think makes him a bit better than the cryptek.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/20 15:57:22
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
If KT is used as a vehicle for Eldar, Scorpions will be the beneficiaries; they are they only KT Aspect not already in plastic.
A Vs. box with EC/ CWE would be totally appropriate, would kill 2 birds with one stone AND would stack with the KT Scorpions.
Ynarri could be solved by releasing BOTH Corsair and Exodite models. Rlease them with a Ynarri dex or supplement, but follow it with a WD dex for mono Exoditess and Mono Corsairs.
Declaring 2021 the year of the Aeldari, and upgrading EVERYTHING would be a dream- Imagine a couple new Harlies to make them feel like a real army (it would only take 1 or two new kits, especially if they had dual build capacity), all resin redone in plastic for ALL Aeldari, the afore mentioned Corsair + Exodite solution to the Ynarri problem PLUS the return of Blood Brides/ Trueborn and all the DE characters we've lost.
In this scenario, the VS box would have to be CWE vs DE to make it feasible.
BTW, Doomrider fans, have you seen the Wargames Exclusive Doomrider knock off? It's one of WGE's famous NSFW sculpts, so it isn't going to be up everyone's alley, but damn!
As for being locked into cartoon mode on Slaanesh, I think the Infernal Enrapturess is one of the edgiest models I've ever seen. I'm not sure whether it was a conscious choice or not, but there were some very high profile BDSM photos floating around the internet prior to the release of that model that explored the human harp body piercing trope. Obviously GW can't acknowledge the influence of said photos upon the design, but when I first saw the model, those photos came immediately to mind.
the_scotsman wrote: Apothecary: 90pts+1CP
5A on the charge with an astartes chainsword
M6 T4 W4 Sv3+
Heals 2 models for 3 wounds, not CORE-limited
6" aura of non-CORE limited 6+FNP Returns 1 model from any INFANTRY or BIKER unit within 3" each turn.
Technomancer with Cloak: 80pts
M10 T4 W4 Sv4+
A1 with an AP-2 melee weapon
Assault 3 S5 AP-2 D1 18" range shooting weapon
Returns 1 model from any CORE unit within 6" each turn, or D3 warriors
Heals 1 model within 3" for D3 wounds.
Honestly, other than the Necron CORE system sucking absolute donkey ass, the cryptek and Chief apothecary seem relatively comparable.
I take it we're ignoring the fact that Apothecaries have a Stratagem to resurrect units, whilst Crypteks that want to bring back anything other than the minute selection of Core necron units have to pay for an artefact, which even then only be used once per game.
But I tell you what, let's ignore that (along with the ability of the Apothecary to revive a sodding vehicle) and just say for the sake of argument that the Apothecary and Technomancer are exactly equal in their ability to revive dead units.
Care to tell me why Space Marines should be at least as good at Necrons at reviving dead units?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
the_scotsman wrote: Apothecary: 90pts+1CP
5A on the charge with an astartes chainsword
M6 T4 W4 Sv3+
Heals 2 models for 3 wounds, not CORE-limited
6" aura of non-CORE limited 6+FNP Returns 1 model from any INFANTRY or BIKER unit within 3" each turn.
Technomancer with Cloak: 80pts
M10 T4 W4 Sv4+
A1 with an AP-2 melee weapon
Assault 3 S5 AP-2 D1 18" range shooting weapon
Returns 1 model from any CORE unit within 6" each turn, or D3 warriors
Heals 1 model within 3" for D3 wounds.
Honestly, other than the Necron CORE system sucking absolute donkey ass, the cryptek and Chief apothecary seem relatively comparable.
I take it we're ignoring the fact that Apothecaries have a Stratagem to resurrect units, whilst Crypteks that want to bring back anything other than the minute selection of Core necron units have to pay for an artefact, which even then only be used once per game.
But I tell you what, let's ignore that (along with the ability of the Apothecary to revive a sodding vehicle) and just say for the sake of argument that the Apothecary and Technomancer are exactly equal in their ability to revive dead units.
Care to tell me why Space Marines should be at least as good at Necrons at reviving dead units?
Because the necron units all revive themselves on their own? An apothecary can spend 1cp to revive one model a turn, the cryptek can revive models for free and their units revive multiple models on their own.
Have an army fire at marines then at necrons for 3 turns, tell me how many models could have been brought back from the dead for both.
the_scotsman wrote: Apothecary: 90pts+1CP
5A on the charge with an astartes chainsword
M6 T4 W4 Sv3+
Heals 2 models for 3 wounds, not CORE-limited
6" aura of non-CORE limited 6+FNP Returns 1 model from any INFANTRY or BIKER unit within 3" each turn.
Technomancer with Cloak: 80pts
M10 T4 W4 Sv4+
A1 with an AP-2 melee weapon
Assault 3 S5 AP-2 D1 18" range shooting weapon
Returns 1 model from any CORE unit within 6" each turn, or D3 warriors
Heals 1 model within 3" for D3 wounds.
Honestly, other than the Necron CORE system sucking absolute donkey ass, the cryptek and Chief apothecary seem relatively comparable.
I take it we're ignoring the fact that Apothecaries have a Stratagem to resurrect units, whilst Crypteks that want to bring back anything other than the minute selection of Core necron units have to pay for an artefact, which even then only be used once per game.
But I tell you what, let's ignore that (along with the ability of the Apothecary to revive a sodding vehicle) and just say for the sake of argument that the Apothecary and Technomancer are exactly equal in their ability to revive dead units.
Care to tell me why Space Marines should be at least as good at Necrons at reviving dead units?
no, because you're just getting emotionally angry and asking a leading question.
Necrons resurrect themselves as a passive ability. Most of their HQs can take a 30-point item that allows them to attempt to resurrect all currently dead models in a given unit. Their dedicated transport resurrects models. Spyders resurrect scarabs. They can use a stratagem to resurrect their dead characters. And then you've got this slotless HQ that resurrects and repairs models.
The space marine chief apothecary is indeed freer to choose targets in its particular version of the targeted single model resurrect ability. If you put on your hyper-blinders and compare JUST THAT ONE ABILITY to JUST THAT OTHER ABILITY and ignore everything else...then yeah. Sure. Fine. The apothecary's ability can bring back more expensive biker models like, in theory, assuming it doesn't get 2-week FAQ'ed, the new spacemario kart.
I think it is fair to point out that the ability is a stratagem, so unless you're willing to pay CP and 15pts up front, it costs a CP every time. And regardless, it is limited to one use per turn, wheras theoretically you could have multiple cryptek/ghost ark resurrections in a turn. You can take as many crypteks/ghost arks as you want, and you can also use Repair Barge and Rites of Reanimation on the same warrior squad to bring back 2d3 if you want. The cryptek can also use a 1cp stratagem to use the ability twice if he wants.
There are pros and cons for both models. Both are models that need to be 3" away to do their stuff, and the cryptek being 10" move with fly vs 6" move with no fly makes a difference there. The cryptek's heal can also target vehicle models, which the apothecary cannot do. The apothecary also can't have a +1 to hit aura.
As a repair/support unit, I think the apothecary, regular with no upgrade, is better than the cryptek with the 5 point cloak overall. That's almost entirely on the fact that he has a passive means of making his points back in the FNP, which always works regardless of whether you keep a unit alive for him to resurrect to or a model alive for him to heal. I think we've all played enough Iron Hands at this point to know that a 6++ FNP makes W2 marines a lot more obnoxious to target with flat 2 damage weaponry.
But the statement "space marines are at least as good as necrons at reviving dead units" is fething asinine. A space marine army, any space marine army, can revive AT MAXIMUM ONE SINGLE MODEL per turn.ONE. you could be playing a five billion point game and you'd get to resurrect 1 model. Necrons have resurrection coming out of every goddamn orifice.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Ah yes, I forgot, Marines getting the once-defining qualities of other armies and being able to do it better is just fine. Because Mhureens.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
vipoid wrote: Ah yes, I forgot, Marines getting the once-defining qualities of other armies and being able to do it better is just fine. Because Mhureens.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
