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2021/05/24 11:15:51
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The GT book is my most utilized book as it has the missions and rules in on small book. I've played in several tourneys, pick up games and a league and they all utilized this book. The main rulebook hasn't left my house since I first bought it.
I'd like to have updated secondaries, both existing and add new options as well as some new mission options.
I know points values will end up online soon after its release, but will be interested to see what changes occur. With the challenges in the release schedule this year, I wonder what books were already supposed to be out by the time this book is released. Hopefully won't have contradictory points values like we saw with Drukhari a few months back.
Definitely an auto buy.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
2021/05/24 13:18:02
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The GT2020 has been out for a year, there are a lot of people that have managed to get a lot of games in in that time whether face to face or on TTS, they've also watched or read a lot of battle reports and there's been a lot of tournament info being analysed by the likes of Goonhammer.
I'm certainly ready for some new missions and secondaries. A £20 book of new missions will invigorate my gaming far more than spending £20 on new models right now.
I'm really hopeful the tweaks they made to the secondaries a few months back show they are seriously looking to calibrate the balance, there has been plenty written about what they could tweak and adjust that if they take on board could really improve the playing experience.
I'd maybe like some tweaks to terrain rules (ruins should be obscuring and dense cover in their examples) perhaps even a slight adjustment to how negatives don't stack. I like that one player can't stack multiple negatives, but it doesn't quite sit right with me that because my opponent's flyer is -1 to hit, i can then advance and fire my assault weapons through dense cover with impunity.
As far as the munitorum points update, I think we'll have to wait and see if they also update the pdf on WarCom at the same time. I'm reasonably hopeful they will.
I never felt like I was paying for the first MFM that came with GT2020 last summer. They gave a free update in the winter with 2021 Mk I, then for those that want a printed copy they gave it away alongside a purchase of White Dwarf. Now we're getting another update alongside a book that is pretty much essential if you have any interest in playing 40k competitively.
If the model going forward is to adjust points every 6 months then that is so much better than the system we had before and hopefully doesn't leave players with models left out in the cold for an entire year. I really don't understand why anybody would see that as a negative thing?
100% agreed on the way negative modifiers to hit should stack. The limit should be on how many the player controlling the targeted unit can stack, it shouldn't apply to things you do yourself. But I don't think that will be addressed in this, that would more likely be handled in a FAQ, same for changes to any existing secondaries. I'm hoping for a new secondarie that targets units of multi-wound high save models that aren't troops, similar to the old ITC Gangbusters secondary myself.
2021/05/24 13:31:31
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The GT2020 has been out for a year, there are a lot of people that have managed to get a lot of games in in that time whether face to face or on TTS, they've also watched or read a lot of battle reports and there's been a lot of tournament info being analysed by the likes of Goonhammer.
I'm certainly ready for some new missions and secondaries. A £20 book of new missions will invigorate my gaming far more than spending £20 on new models right now.
I'm really hopeful the tweaks they made to the secondaries a few months back show they are seriously looking to calibrate the balance, there has been plenty written about what they could tweak and adjust that if they take on board could really improve the playing experience.
I'd maybe like some tweaks to terrain rules (ruins should be obscuring and dense cover in their examples) perhaps even a slight adjustment to how negatives don't stack. I like that one player can't stack multiple negatives, but it doesn't quite sit right with me that because my opponent's flyer is -1 to hit, i can then advance and fire my assault weapons through dense cover with impunity.
As far as the munitorum points update, I think we'll have to wait and see if they also update the pdf on WarCom at the same time. I'm reasonably hopeful they will.
I never felt like I was paying for the first MFM that came with GT2020 last summer. They gave a free update in the winter with 2021 Mk I, then for those that want a printed copy they gave it away alongside a purchase of White Dwarf. Now we're getting another update alongside a book that is pretty much essential if you have any interest in playing 40k competitively.
If the model going forward is to adjust points every 6 months then that is so much better than the system we had before and hopefully doesn't leave players with models left out in the cold for an entire year. I really don't understand why anybody would see that as a negative thing?
I love playing 40K and I can’t wait to finally get a game in but when your first game of an edition requires you to buy updated points and rules for your essentially new BRB and Codex, it’s fairly galling. Especially when it’s another €25+ on top of what you’ve already spent as opposed to a free document correcting the points values and rules. There is an avalanche of additional books on top of the Codexes that is really off-putting.
I do understand your frustration and it does suck that so many people have been unable to play yet, but at the same time, it isn't GWs fault that you haven't had a chance to try out their 2020 missions. New missions once a year has been a pretty standard schedule since the beginning of 8th and many people will be really excited for this.
I'd also say, if you haven't yet played a game of 9th, your first few games are unlikely to be highly competitive in nature. Stick with the GT2020 missions, or even the BRB missions. One of my gaming circles play very casual and are quite happy playing the BRB missions and having a blast.
You probably also don't really need the new points for a while too, I'm sure nobody is gonna be too adverse to you using the points that were released in January in your first few games of 9th, I can't imagine the points will change significantly to the point a friendly match up will be ruined. We'll wait to see if they end up as a free download anyway and, if not, it's all on battlescribe or reasonably easy to parse from discussions on here or reddit where many of the biggest points adjustments fall.
100% agreed on the way negative modifiers to hit should stack. The limit should be on how many the player controlling the targeted unit can stack, it shouldn't apply to things you do yourself. But I don't think that will be addressed in this, that would more likely be handled in a FAQ, same for changes to any existing secondaries. I'm hoping for a new secondarie that targets units of multi-wound high save models that aren't troops, similar to the old ITC Gangbusters secondary myself.
Yes a gangbusters type secondary is really essential as there is no middle ground between thin their ranks and bring it down/titan hunter. It means elite armies like marines are largely immune to the kill secondaries. Maybe also something to address the double bubble aspect of killing a unit that counts towards two secondaries would be good?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/24 13:51:53
100% agreed on the way negative modifiers to hit should stack. The limit should be on how many the player controlling the targeted unit can stack, it shouldn't apply to things you do yourself. But I don't think that will be addressed in this, that would more likely be handled in a FAQ, same for changes to any existing secondaries. I'm hoping for a new secondarie that targets units of multi-wound high save models that aren't troops, similar to the old ITC Gangbusters secondary myself.
Yes a gangbusters type secondary is really essential as there is no middle ground between thin their ranks and bring it down/titan hunter. It means elite armies like marines are largely immune to the kill secondaries. Maybe also something to address the double bubble aspect of killing a unit that counts towards two secondaries would be good?
Yes, a limit to double dipping on secondaries would be good. Could probably be handled by moving some secondaries around in the categories.
2021/05/24 14:29:10
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Eldarsif wrote: I expect point changes based on pre-Death Guard tournament results. These books are made few months in advance so I doubt we'll see any changes to DG or Drukhari.
I also expect some mission changes and changes to secondaries as well as new secondary objectives.
Basically the same I've expected from GHB over the years, but with this CA has basically the same point release cadence as AoS. Something I expected when CA was released in the GHB spot last year.
These are printed on the fly more than codexes.
Don't expect magic, because there are so many codexes incoming.
Best thing is to hope for properly revised secondaries.
These are printed yearly, much like Chapter Approved and GHB every year before that so I expect what I have been seeing in every CA and GHB for the past 5 years. These aren't exactly new books even if the CA format has changed somewhat, both internally and time slot-wise. If anything I am more surprised that people don't seem to have realized the release cadence of Chapter Approved. In AoS a lot of people are excited for the General's Handbook during the summer.
I expect minor changes to the missions. Problem missions might be adjusted or removed for another.
I expect modification to secondaries as well as new ones to fill in any existing gaps.
I expect point changes. I expect Ork and SoB points might have the new points and I expect quite a few books that are not coming in the next 2 months to see point updates except for the 2 that came out this year so far. Ad Mech will of course have the same points as in the upcoming book.
I do understand your frustration and it does suck that so many people have been unable to play yet, but at the same time, it isn't GWs fault that you haven't had a chance to try out their 2020 missions. New missions once a year has been a pretty standard schedule since the beginning of 8th and many people will be really excited for this.
Yep. We've had a lot of games where I live and all of us are excited for potential tweaks. I really like the 2020 book, but it can use some improvements.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/24 14:30:24
2021/05/24 15:05:04
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
At least the inclusion of errata that were published in pdf, to the mission packs. Someone mentioned that a secondary objective similar to the "gangbusters" of the ITC pack during 8th is needed. I concur, I really feel that someting in between the "thin their ranks" and "bring it down" is needed. Currently the more elite you shape your list (at the exclusion of vehicles), the more poweful and immune to killing secondaries your army becomes. But I highly doubt they would do this move : it would negatively impact their cherished Space Marines. I even have doubts we will get anything significant in this domain, but I may be surprised. The sign that may yield to a surprise, is the fact that the design studio is aware of some shortcomings of the 9th edition current state. They publish a metawatch article from time to time, and they featured the glorious geeks that are handing out statistics on the state of the game. They are aware of Goonhammer. They are aware that many secondaries objectives are trash, some are nearly auto-picks. They have already given us a PDF errata in the middle of lockdown, to correct the most glaring issues. We will see. This will be the first chapter I will browse through.
As for the points costs, meh, they already done an update in the beginning of the year. The competitive data for basis is slim due to Covid-19. Most of the equipement prices are already rounded to multiples of 5. Most of the big stuff has already been through two adjustments, with cautious up or downs (if any). Few codices have been released since the munitorum field manual 2021 mark 1. So I don't expect anything big.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/24 15:06:52
longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard
2021/05/24 15:19:51
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
1. a few points adjustments on stuff like Drukharii raiders
2. updated secondaries including somthing that targets stuff like Gravis marines (gangbusters equivelent)
3. updated rules - i.e. include any FAQ's that have been posted into the core rules.
What we will get:
1. points that are mostly the same, maybe a drop on some marine units. errors on wargear points (e.g. forgetting points for wargear or providing points for illegal loadouts)
2. one or two new/updated secondaries that marines can basically ignore due to how the armies are currently structured.
3. the original core rules reprinted, "oops we forgot to update them".
Praise the Omnissiah
About 4k of .
Imperial Knights (Valiant, Warden & Armigers)
Some Misc. Imperium units etc. Assassins...
About 2k of
2021/05/24 15:20:53
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I love playing 40K and I can’t wait to finally get a game in but when your first game of an edition requires you to buy updated points and rules for your essentially new BRB and Codex, it’s fairly galling. Especially when it’s another €25+ on top of what you’ve already spent as opposed to a free document correcting the points values and rules. There is an avalanche of additional books on top of the Codexes that is really off-putting.
So how's this any different than if you'd been returning from a previous edition?
We answer this question all the time here online & in real life:
Player: I last played in x. What books do I need to play now?
ANSWER: Current rulebook + current codex + xyz
2021/05/24 15:38:03
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I have had great value from the GT2020 Pack - use it at tourneys and pick-up games. Handy size and the ring-bound format is great. I am expecting refreshed missions and secondaries. Not expecting big changes to rules but nothing surprises me anymore! The points values updates were likely sent to the printers pre-Codex Drukhari tourney results so they will likely be followed up by a Day 1 FAQ patch.
All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand
2021/05/24 18:36:49
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
100% agreed on the way negative modifiers to hit should stack. The limit should be on how many the player controlling the targeted unit can stack, it shouldn't apply to things you do yourself. But I don't think that will be addressed in this, that would more likely be handled in a FAQ, same for changes to any existing secondaries. I'm hoping for a new secondarie that targets units of multi-wound high save models that aren't troops, similar to the old ITC Gangbusters secondary myself.
Right - I can get behind that logic. If you incur multiple negatives yourself then that's on you, but no -2/-3/-4 units with no interaction.
2021/05/24 18:47:48
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
100% agreed on the way negative modifiers to hit should stack. The limit should be on how many the player controlling the targeted unit can stack, it shouldn't apply to things you do yourself. But I don't think that will be addressed in this, that would more likely be handled in a FAQ, same for changes to any existing secondaries. I'm hoping for a new secondarie that targets units of multi-wound high save models that aren't troops, similar to the old ITC Gangbusters secondary myself.
Right - I can get behind that logic. If you incur multiple negatives yourself then that's on you, but no -2/-3/-4 units with no interaction.
Exactly. The problem was players stacking defensive negative modifiers to hit on their own units. Stopping that was a good idea, but allowing things like infantry with heavy weapons to just not care if they moved or not wasn't. I just can't decide if Dense Cover should stack or not IE: Devastator squad moves, Dense Cover is between them and their target, target pops Smokescreen, should they be -3 to hit, or only -2?
2021/05/24 18:49:58
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
It also creates the confusing and silly interactions of like
"oh, the opposing unit I want to target is already -1 to hit, I have no reason not to try and hit it with my lascannon while moving/advance with my melta"
"this unit is ULTRA SUPER SNEAKY so they always get -1 to hit....aaaaaand obviously that means they have no reason to hide behind Dense Cover and might as well stand out in the open?"
100% agreed on the way negative modifiers to hit should stack. The limit should be on how many the player controlling the targeted unit can stack, it shouldn't apply to things you do yourself. But I don't think that will be addressed in this, that would more likely be handled in a FAQ, same for changes to any existing secondaries. I'm hoping for a new secondarie that targets units of multi-wound high save models that aren't troops, similar to the old ITC Gangbusters secondary myself.
Right - I can get behind that logic. If you incur multiple negatives yourself then that's on you, but no -2/-3/-4 units with no interaction.
Exactly. The problem was players stacking defensive negative modifiers to hit on their own units. Stopping that was a good idea, but allowing things like infantry with heavy weapons to just not care if they moved or not wasn't. I just can't decide if Dense Cover should stack or not IE: Devastator squad moves, Dense Cover is between them and their target, target pops Smokescreen, should they be -3 to hit, or only -2?
IMO a cap of +1 to your hit rolls/-1 for enemy units to hit you based on abilities and rules that YOU APPLY TO YOURSELF makes sense to me.
Dense Cover, move and shoot penalties, psy power debuffs etc etc etc should not fall under the same cap.
If I already have a -1 to hit ability, I should not be able to stack another -1 to hit ability on top.
If I already have a +1 to hit ability, I should not be able to stack another +1 to hit ability on top.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/24 18:52:18
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2021/05/24 19:06:27
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
the_scotsman wrote: It also creates the confusing and silly interactions of like
"oh, the opposing unit I want to target is already -1 to hit, I have no reason not to try and hit it with my lascannon while moving/advance with my melta"
"this unit is ULTRA SUPER SNEAKY so they always get -1 to hit....aaaaaand obviously that means they have no reason to hide behind Dense Cover and might as well stand out in the open?"
It also partially nullifies what was supposed to be one of the advantages of vehicles in 9th: Dense Cover between your target and your unit and you need to move to get into range? Doesn't matter if it's a tank that ignores the penalty for moving with heavy weapons or infantry that don't, because they're both at the same penalty.
100% agreed on the way negative modifiers to hit should stack. The limit should be on how many the player controlling the targeted unit can stack, it shouldn't apply to things you do yourself. But I don't think that will be addressed in this, that would more likely be handled in a FAQ, same for changes to any existing secondaries. I'm hoping for a new secondarie that targets units of multi-wound high save models that aren't troops, similar to the old ITC Gangbusters secondary myself.
Right - I can get behind that logic. If you incur multiple negatives yourself then that's on you, but no -2/-3/-4 units with no interaction.
Exactly. The problem was players stacking defensive negative modifiers to hit on their own units. Stopping that was a good idea, but allowing things like infantry with heavy weapons to just not care if they moved or not wasn't. I just can't decide if Dense Cover should stack or not IE: Devastator squad moves, Dense Cover is between them and their target, target pops Smokescreen, should they be -3 to hit, or only -2?
IMO a cap of +1 to your hit rolls/-1 for enemy units to hit you based on abilities and rules that YOU APPLY TO YOURSELF makes sense to me.
Dense Cover, move and shoot penalties, psy power debuffs etc etc etc should not fall under the same cap.
If I already have a -1 to hit ability, I should not be able to stack another -1 to hit ability on top.
If I already have a +1 to hit ability, I should not be able to stack another +1 to hit ability on top.
Agreed.
2021/05/25 07:36:21
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
1. a few points adjustments on stuff like Drukharii raiders
2. updated secondaries including somthing that targets stuff like Gravis marines (gangbusters equivelent)
3. updated rules - i.e. include any FAQ's that have been posted into the core rules.
Seeing points in book have been finalized before dark eldar were even supposed to be released let alone when they were don't expect any changes on DE .At least any based on actual data.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2021/05/25 07:37:05
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
So how's this any different than if you'd been returning from a previous edition?
We answer this question all the time here online & in real life:
Player: I last played in x. What books do I need to play now?
ANSWER: Current rulebook + current codex + xyz
Because in prior edition you just bought your codex SW and used it for most of 8th ed, while now you have to start with buying the sm codex and the sw book day 1.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2021/05/25 08:05:51
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Eldarsif wrote: I expect minor changes to the missions. Problem missions might be adjusted or removed for another.
Would you say there were many problem missions in the 2020 pack, out of interest? Haven't had chance to play, so unsure how well they did with the first round of scenarios.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2021/05/25 08:11:42
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
So how's this any different than if you'd been returning from a previous edition?
We answer this question all the time here online & in real life:
Player: I last played in x. What books do I need to play now?
ANSWER: Current rulebook + current codex + xyz
Because in prior edition you just bought your codex SW and used it for most of 8th ed, while now you have to start with buying the sm codex and the sw book day 1.
And outside of Space Marines it's still rulebook + codex + maybe a campaign book (if you really need anything from that book).
Heck your beloved GK's are still going to be just that eventually too. Someone new starting does not need 17 books to play a game. They may need 3 but often just 2.
2021/05/25 08:57:13
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I'm afraid I'm a fan of the modifiers being capped like now. I feel stacking modifiers is not a box that need's to be reopened.
Intuitively it does perhaps seem silly that a guy carrying a heavy weapon can jog along and then shoot at super-sneaky unit through a forest at no more penalty than shooting a regular unit in the open - but I think negatives to hit were just awful for the game. So I prefer the gameyness over the verisimilitude.
The counter argument is that minuses to hit at some of the best counters to "everything dies by the close of turn 3" - but yeah. They don't hit all armies equally and for those poor suffering BS4+ armies its just obnoxious.
2021/05/25 09:46:05
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
And outside of Space Marines it's still rulebook + codex + maybe a campaign book (if you really need anything from that book).
Heck your beloved GK's are still going to be just that eventually too. Someone new starting does not need 17 books to play a game. They may need 3 but often just 2.
I don't think I would describe GK as an army I love. Plus the army is unplayable with without its supplement book. So any new player has to buy the two.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2021/05/25 12:40:18
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
I'm not 100% sure we "need" an anti-elite infantry secondary.
Are elite infantry factions doing so well that their opponents "need" to score more points against them? That's the question you need to ask. Just because that type of secondary doesn't yet exist, doesn't mean it "needs" to exist.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 12:40:49
2021/05/25 12:56:03
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The negatives-to-hit problem can be solved in two ways:
1) All 6s hit. In the GW style, it's simple and easy, but it's also clunky and affects the game unevenly, while still making modifier-stacking pointless against some armies.
2) In cases where you couldn't normally hit the enemy, still roll-to-hit, and any 6 must be re-rolled on the firer's BS to "confirm" the hit. With the usual drawback of adding another "to-hit" roll step (and all the crappiness that comes with rolling EVEN MORE dice), the benefits are now that BS matters. Unfortunately, modifier-stacking would still be pointless once you reduced the enemy to hitting on 7s.
Other than that, we'd need a revamp of the design of 40k to make it work - on the level of removing Flyers, stratagems, etc. for example.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 12:56:11
2021/05/25 13:22:59
Subject: CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Quasistellar wrote: I'm not 100% sure we "need" an anti-elite infantry secondary.
Are elite infantry factions doing so well that their opponents "need" to score more points against them? That's the question you need to ask. Just because that type of secondary doesn't yet exist, doesn't mean it "needs" to exist.
I dunno, would you consider elite infantry lists being over 50% of the play meta overall since the launch of 9th "doing so well that their opponents need to score more points against them"?
DG+SM+Custodes has never dipped below 50% of the play meta to my knowledge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Unit1126PLL wrote: The negatives-to-hit problem can be solved in two ways:
1) All 6s hit. In the GW style, it's simple and easy, but it's also clunky and affects the game unevenly, while still making modifier-stacking pointless against some armies.
2) In cases where you couldn't normally hit the enemy, still roll-to-hit, and any 6 must be re-rolled on the firer's BS to "confirm" the hit. With the usual drawback of adding another "to-hit" roll step (and all the crappiness that comes with rolling EVEN MORE dice), the benefits are now that BS matters. Unfortunately, modifier-stacking would still be pointless once you reduced the enemy to hitting on 7s.
Other than that, we'd need a revamp of the design of 40k to make it work - on the level of removing Flyers, stratagems, etc. for example.
I don't get why only being able to get a -1 to hit from abilities you apply on your units and the '6s always hit' (which is already a rule) wouldn't resolve the problematic aspects of to hit mods.
being able to, at will, make a unit -3 to hit is absolutely abusive. No question. but being able to have a unit at -3 to hit through 1 ability on that unit and two penalties incurred by the firing model does not seem nearly as problematic to me. You put two of those -1s to hit on yourself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 13:25:02
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2021/05/25 13:27:28
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
Thin Their Ranks not applying to vehicles and counting wounds rather than models is a pretty significant change. Not sure if it'll really serve as a Gangbusters equivalent, but it's something.
Sounds like they're trying to make the kill secondaries more specific so as to be harder to max out, while also increasing the value of action-focused secondaries. I'm onboard with that.
catbarf wrote: Thin Their Ranks not applying to vehicles and counting wounds rather than models is a pretty significant change. Not sure if it'll really serve as a Gangbusters equivalent, but it's something.
Sounds like they're trying to make the kill secondaries more specific so as to be harder to max out, while also increasing the value of action-focused secondaries. I'm onboard with that.
Guess it depends on how many points per model its worth.
If you had me design it, I'd make pretty much any "kill stuff" objective be worth 10-12 points max IF your opponent is constructing almost all their list around the targeted unit type.
Like, Bring it Down should be worth 10-12pts if your opponent is playing a mechanized list, or you're playing vs Knights, or a nidzilla list. Similarly if your opponent is bringing all infantry, No Prisoners should be designed to return 10-12 points vs an army made up against mostly lets say ~9 points per wound infantry. The chaff-iest chaff horde of just all unadorned guardsmen or genestealer cultists might max it out at 15 but very rarely.
The objectives that you should be able to get to 15 in a typical good game are the ones that require you to forgo optimally pursuing the destruction of the opposing army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/25 14:00:54
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2021/05/25 15:05:45
Subject: Re:CA and MFM 2021 up for pre-order next weekend. What's needed and what will we get?
The new version of Deploy Scramblers, the evocatively named Retrieve Octarius Data
This is, quite possibly, the worst change they could have possibly made.
What is an Octarius, what data does it have, and why do Orks or Tyranids want to retrieve it? Let's keep the secondary objectives easy to say and remember, please. Plus side of "simple" objective names is it's easier to fluff Tyranids deploying scrambler spore bio-hives or whatever than it is for them to... retrieve... octarius data? whatever that is.
Previously, Investigate Sites could only begin at the end of your Movement phase if the centre of the battlefield was devoid of enemy units. This presented a real problem. As long as your opponent got at least one model within 6″ of the centre on their turn, you could never score it since you generally can’t destroy enemy models before the end of your Movement phase.
Er...yeah? Why exactly did it take a year to figure that out that this secondary was trash as written? Any competitive player would have told you that as their immediate reaction after reading the text.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are finally fixing things like this that are so obviously poorly designed. But it's a bit galling to be charged another premium book price just to fix stuff that everybody told them was broken the first time around.
Also, I guess Nanavati gave up his objection to participating in their unpaid playtesting program, or else GW is now paying people (spoiler: I doubt it's the second).
Praise the Omnissiah
