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Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Morale comes in three states.

Suppressed
A Suppressed unit cannot benefit from Command Abilities. Command Abilities include things like the Command Reroll Stratagem, many aura abilities (especially those that grant rerolls), Litanies and Prayers, and more. There's a lot of abilities in 40k, so I will not be going over all of them-if you're using homebrew rules, you can probably talk with your opponent and decide what's what.

Shocked
A Shocked unit worsens their Ballistic Skill by 1, to a minimum of 6+, and rolls one additional die when making a Charge or Advance Roll, then discards one of their opponent's choice. They also cannot benefit from Command Abilities.

Broken
A Broken unit worsens their Ballistic Skill by 2 and Weapon Skill by 1, to a minimum of 6+. (This is not cumulative with the Shocked penalties.) They cannot Charge or Advance, and if they are within Engagement Range of an enemy unit during the Movement Phase, they MUST attempt to Fall Back. They also cannot benefit from Command Abilities.

The following common circumstances force Morale Tests. A Morale Test is taken by rolling 2d6 and comparing it to the unit's highest Leadership stat. If the result is equal to or less than the Leadership stat, the test is passed. If it is greater than, it is failed.

-Whenever 25% or more of a unit's models are destroyed in one phase, take a test at the end of the phase
--If 50% or more are destroyed in a phase, take a test with +1 to the roll
--If 75% or more are destroyed in a phase, take a test with +3 to the roll
--Note that these values are based on the starting size of a unit, not its current size

-If a model with 8 or more wounds suffers 25% of their wounds in a single phase, take a test at the end of the phase
--If 50% or more wounds are suffered, take a test with +1 to the roll
--If 75% or more wounds are suffered, take a test with +3 to the roll
--Note that these values are based on starting wound count, not current wound count

-If any wounds are suffered from a Blast weapon, or a weapon that automatically hits with its attacks, take a test at the end of the phase

When a Morale test is failed, a unit gains one level of Morale penalties. It goes from Suppressed->Shocked->Broken.

During the Morale Phase of your turn, any unit that has any Morale penalties takes a Morale Test. On a success, they remove the last penalty they received. On a failure, nothing happens.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






I like it! It gives a good sense of progression in terms of giving penalties towards units that are meaningful and doesn't feel all or nothing like it is currently. More importantly, I like that it starts addressing MSU spam that is so prevalent nowadays since they basically get to skip the morale phase in the game. All that's needed is some tangible horde buff alongside this and you'll see more than just 5 man squads spread across the entire game.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I like this a lot. Feels pretty natural. Seems easy enough to track. I like that it allows morale to impact monsters/vehicles. Some thoughts:

rolls one additional die when making a Charge or Advance Roll, then discards one of their opponent's choice.

You might consider just automatically dropping one of the highest rolls instead of making it an opponent's choice. Mostly to streamline the rule just a smidge. The only scenario that springs to mind where an opponent wouldn't choose one of the highest rolls is if the opponent thinks you're making a bad decision and actively wants you to succeed on a charge. In which case, it seems a little weird that being shocked can potentially make you better at charging things.

They cannot Charge or Advance, and if they are within Engagement Range of an enemy unit during the Movement Phase, they MUST attempt to Fall Back.

I think I like this, but are we worried that it might occassionally feel unfluffy? Seems like daemons might not be the types to fall back even when they're getting wrecked, and I'm iffy on whether or not marines should be resistant to this in some way. Also, fully preventing charging but only imposes a to-hit penalty to shooting obviously means that melee armies are punished by the Broken status more than shooty armies. I'm not sure if that's a big deal or not, but it felt worth pointing out.

-If any wounds are suffered from a Blast weapon, or a weapon that automatically hits with its attacks, take a test at the end of the phase

Not sure how I feel about this part.
A.) Is a frag missile really that much more scary than a heavy bolter? Especially if the unit being shot at is actually less likely to be damaged by the frag than the bolter?
B.) Seems like it would be tempting to spam blast weapons and split fire in order to force a bunch of morale checks. I'm picturing things like guard infantry with a grenade launcher/mortar combo or a heavy weapon squad of 3 mortars firing at 3 different units and fishing for a single unsaved wound.

When a Morale test is failed, a unit gains one level of Morale penalties. It goes from Suppressed->Shocked->Broken.

Pondering whether or not there should be a way to advance two steps down the status track at once. Ignoring blast/auto-hitting weapons, an enemy unit is probably only going to be making one or two morale checks per game (assuming you don't just kill the unit outright), and then they'll probably pass at least one of those. And if you lose at least 50% of your unit on turn 1, then your second morale test would only have a +0 modifier. So it seems like it would be pretty rare to ever get to Shocked status let alone Broken. You'd basically have to lose a pretty precise number of models from your squad in 3 different phases and then fail all 3 tests with only a +0 modifier each time.

Suggestion: Maybe have the penalties to the morale test be based on the unit's total losses throughout the game rather than just their losses from a single phase? So my 20 man guardian squad (now reduced to 8 survivors) would have a +1 penalty to each morale test, and they'd have a +3 penalty if they then got reduced to 5 or less survivors. Could potentially keep morale in the morale phase with this approach to offset the increased likelihood of failing a given roll.

Alternatively, maybe add a morale test penalty to each status? Maybe morale tests taken outside of the Morale Phase suffer a +1/2/3 penalty for being Suppressed/Shocked/Broken respectively? Note that the "outside the Morale Phase" part means that these penalties would only kick in when you take casualties; you wouldn't be less likely to pass your test to calm down in the Morale Phase.

But yeah. Good system. Gets rid of the annoying parts of the current system. Avoids the annoying parts of the old system. Feels fluffy. Shouldn't be too difficult to track; you'd basically just need to add a single token to any units suffering from failed morale. Might want to come up with a blanket word for being suppressed/shocked/broken so that other rules could easily refer to, "Units that are actively suffering from the effects of a failed morale test."


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I like the progression, but you've picked up an old rule I never liked much - the 25%, 50%, 75% rule.

The reason I dislike this is because it makes little sense, to my mind, that a unit of 10 space marines would consider 2 marines dying as no loss, whilst a unit of 5 would consider 2 cause to panic.

A random thought for this, which would have to be considered to make it work, would be for morale to be non-random. If a unit suffers wounds equal to or more than their morale, then their morale worsens.

EG, a deff dread has Ld 7, so if it loses 7 wounds in one turn, it automatically becomes suppressed.
A unit of orks has Ld 7 ,so if they lose 7 models, they become suppressed.
A unit of space marines has Ld 9(?), so they need to lose 9 wounds (4.5 marines) in order to become suppressed.


Might need some tweaks to morale (Probably a lot of them dropping a bit to make it happen more often) but it would be an easy way to control it. It would also make for morale-impacting rules (like mob rule used to be) being quite effective, EG ork units of 15+ have morale 10, or units in range of this leader have +1 to morale. Imperial Guard might only have Ld 4 or 5, but given that it goes in 3 stages, chances are they won't lose all abilities before they're all dead anyway!


12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based!

I also make designs for t-shirts and mugs and such on Redbubble! 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 some bloke wrote:
I like the progression, but you've picked up an old rule I never liked much - the 25%, 50%, 75% rule.

The reason I dislike this is because it makes little sense, to my mind, that a unit of 10 space marines would consider 2 marines dying as no loss, whilst a unit of 5 would consider 2 cause to panic.

A random thought for this, which would have to be considered to make it work, would be for morale to be non-random. If a unit suffers wounds equal to or more than their morale, then their morale worsens.

EG, a deff dread has Ld 7, so if it loses 7 wounds in one turn, it automatically becomes suppressed.
A unit of orks has Ld 7 ,so if they lose 7 models, they become suppressed.
A unit of space marines has Ld 9(?), so they need to lose 9 wounds (4.5 marines) in order to become suppressed.


Might need some tweaks to morale (Probably a lot of them dropping a bit to make it happen more often) but it would be an easy way to control it. It would also make for morale-impacting rules (like mob rule used to be) being quite effective, EG ork units of 15+ have morale 10, or units in range of this leader have +1 to morale. Imperial Guard might only have Ld 4 or 5, but given that it goes in 3 stages, chances are they won't lose all abilities before they're all dead anyway!

Phone posting, but I hecking like this idea.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

My favourite morale solution currently is to have a staged system. Something like this.

Spoiler:
Fail a test and you can't shoot, charge or use psychic powers.
Fail a second and you can't move and any units in engagement range of the enemy auto die.
Fail a third test and unit removed.

Leadership a target number to roll under, so always pass on 1, fail on 6.
Mods
Taken casualties this turn -1
At or below Half Strength -1
Reached half strength this turn -1

Must test in end phase if taken casualties.
May test in end phase if wish to rally (but failure makes unit more broken as detailed above)

The main modifiers for that would be things like fearless, ATSKNF and synapse.

Fearless - Ignore casualty modifier
And They Shall Know No Fear - Re-roll
Synapse (x) - a Synapse unit can make itself or another unit on the table fearless for this test, up to X times this turn

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/27 15:44:33


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Further to my ideas above, a new weapon type can be added to the game; Suppressive.

The options are:

1: Units which take one or more hits from a Suppressive weapon suffer a -1 to their Ld. This is cumulative, to a maximum of -3.

or,

2: Any hits from a weapon with this rule are considered wounds for morale purposes.

or,

3: Wounds caused by a Suppressive weapon count as two wounds for morale

So Flamers would be an important suppressive weapon. Option 1 says if you are hit by 2 flamers, you get -2 to ld. Option 2 says that if you are hit by 2 flamers (avg. 7 hits) then this counts as 7 wounds for morale. Option 3 says that you might get 7 hits, but if you're flaming a terminator you might only get 1 wound, so it counts as 2.


1st one is easy enough to track. Second is a pain, I think. Third would make the most thematic sense (your flamer means nothing to the landraider!), as units which shrug off the hits will not care about them.

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

I'm Selling Infinity, 40k, dystopian wars, UK based!

I also make designs for t-shirts and mugs and such on Redbubble! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





some bloke wrote:I like the progression, but you've picked up an old rule I never liked much - the 25%, 50%, 75% rule.

The reason I dislike this is because it makes little sense, to my mind, that a unit of 10 space marines would consider 2 marines dying as no loss, whilst a unit of 5 would consider 2 cause to panic.

A random thought for this, which would have to be considered to make it work, would be for morale to be non-random. If a unit suffers wounds equal to or more than their morale, then their morale worsens.

I like this. Maybe make it its own Morale stat instead of overwriting Leadership (maybe), but it seems like a good approach. And if you wanted to, you could have modifiers to the morale stat based on unit size. So maybe orks' Mob Rule grants +2 to Morale for every 10 models in the unit or something.

some bloke wrote:Further to my ideas above, a new weapon type can be added to the game; Suppressive.
...
1st one is easy enough to track. Second is a pain, I think. Third would make the most thematic sense (your flamer means nothing to the landraider!), as units which shrug off the hits will not care about them.

The third option definitely seems better than the other two. My only concern is that sufficiently spammable suppressive weapons might encourage a lot of split-firing in an effort to force morale tests. But that's less of a concern with the third option than the other two. If anything, the third option encourages you to focus your suppressive weapons in one place to guarantee morale is failed.

The_Real_Chris wrote:My favourite morale solution currently is to have a staged system. Something like this.

Not trying to yuck your yum, but could you explain what you like about that system? My first thought reading through it is that it's the worst parts of a few different proposals.

Fail a test and you can't shoot, charge or use psychic powers.

The harshness of this right out the gate means that alpha strikes become even more effective because a good round of shooting can stunlock units and prevent them from inflicting return damage.

Fail a second and you can't move and any units in engagement range of the enemy auto die.
Fail a third test and unit removed.

This reminds me of how much people hated sweeping advances, but the chances of it happening are even greater because you just have to fail a d6 roll instead of a d6 roll AND an initiative roll off. And on the third failed test, it's like a sweeping advance that can happen at range.


Leadership a target number like other stats, so always pass on 6, fail on 1.
Mods
Taken casualties this turn -1
At or below Half Strength -1
Reached half strength this turn -1

Must test in end phase if taken casualties.
May test in end phase if wish to rally (but failure makes unit more broken as detailed above)


Hypothetical harlequins charge a 20-man squad of guardsmen killing 19. Surviving guardsman gets lucky and kills a single harlequin. Guardsman passes morale. Harlequins (Ld 2+) roll a 2 (something that they had a 1/3rd chance of doing) and fail due to their single unsaved wound. In the morale phase, the clowns try to rally but roll a 1. The clowns have piled in to hold the guardsman hostage at this point meaning they're all within in engagement range. Having failed two morale tests, the clowns are wiped out after killing 19 models and losing only a single model in return.

Again, 1/3rd chance of failing morale assuming you start with Leadership 2+, and then a 1/6th chance of failing the attempt to rally. 1/3 * 1/6 = 1/18th means that the above scenario will happen roughly once every 18 times you charge an enemy and suffer a non-zero number of wounds back. If the clowns opted not to rally but then got shot by the sergeant's pistol on the following turn (or got smited or whatever), then those odds go up to 1/9th. If the unit they charged managed to kill 3 clowns instead of 1, then the chances of a 5 man clown squad being wiped out in this way double. Or am I missing something?

The main modifiers for that would be things like fearless, ATSKNF and synapse.

Fearless - Ignore casualty modifier
And They Shall Know No Fear - Re-roll
Synapse (x) - a Synapse unit can make itself or another unit on the table fearless for this test, up to X times this turn[/spoiler]

ATSKNF vs Fearless runs into that math weirdness where ATSKNF that passes on a 3+ is better than Ld 2+ Fearless, but that's weird; not necessarily a problem.

Tracking the uses of synapse sounds like a lot of bookkeeping. Gaunts would presumably (continue to) have pretty bad Ld stats. So if you're running a bunch of gaunt swarms, it would be easy for me to sprinkle a couple wounds onto each squad. Heck, I could split fire and pretty reliably put at least 1 wound on like 4 squads with a single squad of sisters or tactical marines. So depending on how many uses of synapse you have and how many units are standing around the synapse creatures, either...
A.) They're immune to morale, in which case why bother making people bookkeep? or...
B). You don't have enough uses of synapse to cover each unit in range. Presumably the player whose turn it is gets to determine the order in which morale tests are taken, so on my turn your most valuable units will be the ones that fail morale, and on your turn your least valuable units will fail morale. Feels messy. Making it a bubble of fearless or immunity probably works better.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I know if the changes suggested above were to take place, it would require an entire rework of how units are costed and I'm ok with that... though I'm not sure how much GW would be willing to put in the effort...

That said,

Other things to consider are psychic powers that can give bonuses/detriments to units, and how that might skew the bell curve. Same would be said to other outside influences, like how Flayed Ones or Reivers would have to be reworked otherwise their innate ability would be horribly broken. Though... it might make the Hemlock worth taking for the first time in... well... forever.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





True, SaganGree, but that's true of any significant overhaul to to morale.

(The hemlock was pretty okay in the last codex; it just wasn't as good as the crimson hunter. Especially of the exarch variety.)


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

Sorry I made a fairly critical error when I wrote this on my phone originally then didn't notice when I cut and paste it

Should read
Leadership a target number to roll under, so always pass on 1, fail on 6.

Wyldhunt wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:My favourite morale solution currently is to have a staged system. Something like this.

Not trying to yuck your yum, but could you explain what you like about that system? My first thought reading through it is that it's the worst parts of a few different proposals.


So we have tried various ideas and are a mix of GW gamers and wargamers.

Everyone hates fiddliness - stuff like modifiers to actions. It has to be clear and go/no go states.
Lots of checks also frowned on. If there isn't a system of continuous tracking in place as part of the game (like say blast markers/suppression markers in some games) the consensus is one test once in the end phase. Special rules could later come in (scary monster charges you, take test, etc.), but that would be quite powerful.
It also shouldn't kill models. Everyone hates that. If it is killing models it should be momentous and a consequence of various things. Units that can't take anymore running is fair enough, extra chipping away death bad.

So we ended up at test in the end turn, you can tell at a glance the modifiers (some models died, the unit is now tiny, its looking bad) and in most cases will stop them fighting but not taking part. They can still do objectives, they can still move. They are regrouping/re-organising and hopefully will come back int eh fight, but these shell shocked fellows can still be mercilessly ordered forward to die.

We tried markers, ultimately people trying it just made sure the leader or key visible model in the unit faced the wrong way as an easy reminder.

You do need to play around with points quite a bit for units though as a consequence.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wyldhunt wrote:


Fail a test and you can't shoot, charge or use psychic powers.

The harshness of this right out the gate means that alpha strikes become even more effective because a good round of shooting can stunlock units and prevent them from inflicting return damage.


They can suppress a units return fire, but not stop them manoeuvring. It is a very common mechanic in wargames, and a feature of Epic (where it is actually harsher in many ways as it leave you very vulnerable).

Fail a second and you can't move and any units in engagement range of the enemy auto die.
Fail a third test and unit removed.

This reminds me of how much people hated sweeping advances, but the chances of it happening are even greater because you just have to fail a d6 roll instead of a d6 roll AND an initiative roll off. And on the third failed test, it's like a sweeping advance that can happen at range.


You would have to fail at the end of turn 1 a morale test. Then fail at the end of turn 2 a morale test. In the worse case scenario you would fail at the end of turn one, get charged turn 2, take more casualties and die if all in engagement range if you failed your second test. That strikes us as fair as that is a prepared assault against a weakened enemy. Failed test unit removed was in earlier versions of 40k and as it would take three end phases to happen outside of CC, again seemed proportionate and in line with a narrative of the game.

Hypothetical harlequins charge a 20-man squad of guardsmen killing 19. Surviving guardsman gets lucky and kills a single harlequin. Guardsman passes morale. Harlequins (Ld 2+) roll a 2 (something that they had a 1/3rd chance of doing) and fail due to their single unsaved wound. In the morale phase, the clowns try to rally but roll a 1. The clowns have piled in to hold the guardsman hostage at this point meaning they're all within in engagement range. Having failed two morale tests, the clowns are wiped out after killing 19 models and losing only a single model in return.

Again, 1/3rd chance of failing morale assuming you start with Leadership 2+, and then a 1/6th chance of failing the attempt to rally. 1/3 * 1/6 = 1/18th means that the above scenario will happen roughly once every 18 times you charge an enemy and suffer a non-zero number of wounds back. If the clowns opted not to rally but then got shot by the sergeant's pistol on the following turn (or got smited or whatever), then those odds go up to 1/9th. If the unit they charged managed to kill 3 clowns instead of 1, then the chances of a 5 man clown squad being wiped out in this way double. Or am I missing something?


Yes, didn't explain it well enough. And made a fairly critical error when not checking what I was cut and pasting.

Tests are taken in the end phase. There is no morale phase. So in this scenario the 'quins charge an untouched infantry squad, killing all but one, but taking a casualty, in end phase fail test (roll a 6), don't CP re-roll and now are unable to charge or shoot. However they are locked in combat so will still be able to fight. In the Guardsmans following turn they fail to kill the guardsman and he kills another 'quin. They test again, roll another 6, no CPs handy, and everyone in engagement range of that guardsman (probably not everyone due to how the assault rules work) die. In their turn they can't charge or shoot, but can move off to a safe position, or stay where they are and risk rolling a 6 for a third time which would remove them.

Unless you are subject to pyschic powers, special abilities, or have a terrible LD stat you will fail most tests on a 6, or 5 or 6 once you hit half strength and are testing.

Apologies again for messing up critical line....

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/27 15:56:33


 
   
Made in us
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Ah. Okay. The main thing that was throwing me was the term "end phase". I thought you meant "end of the phase" rather than a new "End Phase" that takes place at the end of the turn. Obviously taking multiple morale tests per turn in your system would make it a lot easier to fail multiple tests.

I still think I prefer JNA's proposed pitch, but your setup makes a lot more sense now. Thanks for taking the time to explain.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

Okay, to use that idea I liked earlier...

Add another stat-Morale-and Leadership is changed to an X+ characteristic. Morale is how many wounds you take to go down a step, Leadership is how well you recover from the penalties.

So, a basic Marine unit is Leadership 3+ and Morale 5.
If they suffer 5 wounds in a phase, they become Suppressed (or Shocked, if Suppressed; or Broken, if Shocked).
During their Morale Phase, they can roll a Leadership test-on a 3+, they go up a step.
And They Shall Know No Fear might allow for rolling it twice in your Morale Phase, or perhaps roll in your opponent's Morale Phase too.

Orks would be Leadership 5+ and Morale 7. (Yes, they have better Morale than Marines-but they also take wounds WAY faster.)
Mob Rule adds +1 to their Morale for every full 5 models in the unit.
Nearby Nobs with a Boss Pole add +1 to their Leadership Tests.

Necrons would be Leadership 4+ and Morale 7.
Wounds restored with Reanimation Protocols would be ignored for Morale.
Most Necron Characters should have an ability adding +1 or more to their Leadership Tests, for nearby units. Overlords should definitely be +2 at least.

Daemons would be Leadership 4+ and Morale 8. (Again, high Morale-squishy bodies.)
Alternatively, give them Morale 5-6 or something, but double it in the shooting phase. (Long distance weapons aren't as effective at dealing with Daemons-they need the visceral emotions to deal with.)

New Stratagem-Get It Together!
For 1 CP, a unit that's suffering from any Morale penalties may make an immediate Leadership test. This is reduced to 0 CP if the unit is within 12" of your Warlord. This Stratagem may be used in any phase, but only once per turn.

Blast and auto-hit weapons, as well as any other weapon with the Suppressive Keyword, count any wounds inflicted as double for the purposes of Morale.

Question: Should overkill be counted? As-in, if I hit a W1 GEQ with a D2 Plasma Gun, is that 1 wound for Morale, or 2? I don't THINK it should, but it is a little scarier to watch your buddy explode in a shower of plasma than just get gutshot.
The issue with that is that a Dark Lance/Lascannon can do 6 damage to a W1 model, and break a squad with one shot and one casualty. But maybe that's desirable?

Edit: Numbers are tentative. They feel rightish, but obviously that's just me. Please, critique this!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/27 18:23:00


Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





New Stratagem-Get It Together!
For 1 CP, a unit that's suffering from any Morale penalties may make an immediate Leadership test. This is reduced to 0 CP if the unit is within 12" of your Warlord. This Stratagem may be used in any phase, but only once per turn.

Two chances to shake off the failed morale penalties before they matter (start of your opponent's Morale phase plus start of your own Command phase) seems like a lot. Your key unit standing near your warlord is going to have a pretty easy time recovering from failed morale, but your less important unit standing right next to the key unit isn't going to benefit from the WL at all? Seems like this could be streamlined into a flat modifier that benefits all nearby units.

Blast and auto-hit weapons, as well as any other weapon with the Suppressive Keyword, count any wounds inflicted as double for the purposes of Morale.

Still not sure this should be a thing for all blast/auto-hit weapons. I get that flamers are scary, but is an eldar plasma grenade really more unnerving than watching someone get unraveled by a gauss flayer? Recommend keeping the Suppressing special rule, but apply it only to the weapons that warrant it. Give yourself the option to pull levers as appropriate.

Question: Should overkill be counted? As-in, if I hit a W1 GEQ with a D2 Plasma Gun, is that 1 wound for Morale, or 2? I don't THINK it should, but it is a little scarier to watch your buddy explode in a shower of plasma than just get gutshot.
The issue with that is that a Dark Lance/Lascannon can do 6 damage to a W1 model, and break a squad with one shot and one casualty. But maybe that's desirable?

Really don't think overkill should be counted. I could see there being cases where especially gruesome attacks get to apply overkill; sounds like a cool Night Lords or succubus trait for instance. But a lascannon giving a relatively clean death to one dude probably shouldn't be more scary than watching Bob scoop up the guts some shurikens spilled listening to Jim screaming as the splinter rifle venom makes his blood feel like it's boiling. Even a bolter round detonation seems like it would be at least as gruesome as the lascannon if not moreso.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






random thought for the game, which would be a significant overhaul but not too difficult really:

Multiple profiles - like tanks and stuff have now, but for morale. Each one has a "how many models you need to lose" morale stat. For example:

Marines:
Morale State M WS BS S T W A M LD SV
Unbroken 6" 3+ 3+ 4 4 2 2 3 8 3+
Suppressed 6" 3+ 3+ 4 4 2 2 2 8 3+
Broken 5" 4+ 4+ 4 4 2 2 1 7 3+

Where the "M" Stat shows how many models they need to lose in order to drop a state.
Various abilities can make units move up and down a state, and you have a simple token (2 sided) which denotes if a unit is Suppressed or Broken.

EG an Ork army could all gain a morale state if a WAAAGH! is declared, or if the warboss kills a character within 12". Guard could use orders to bring morale back up, whilst Marines (as above) are barely affected by it. Guard might be:

Morale State M WS BS S T W A M LD SV
Unbroken 6" 4+ 4+ 3 3 1 1 3 7 4+
Suppressed 5" 5+ 5+ 3 3 1 1 2 6 4+
Broken 4" 6+ 6+ 3 3 1 1 1 5 4+

so issuing orders to get back in the fight (hey, that's catchy) would be a critical part of how Guard works.

12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
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Could be something there, bloke. Couple thoughts:
* You'd probably want to make the breaking points be based on a percentage or otherwise scale with squad size. Doesn't do a squad of 20 or 30 models any favors to be breaking at the same thresholds as a squad of 5 or 10. Alternatively, just make the breaking points be based on models remaining.

* The thing about limiting the effects of morale to the unit's statline is that you're really only impacting the unit's raw killing power and movement. Compare that to JNA's proposal where morale is causing units to no longer be able to pull off special maneuvers, debuffing their killing power, AND potentially forcing them to fall back when near enemies. JNA's approach seems more likely to result in more interesting impacts on gameplay whereas diminished statlines just make my units more likely to fumble the ball.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
 
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