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I am currently trying to print and assemble this beautiful model by Gearguts Mek Shop.



I have a friend who wishes to one day play a titan battle and I would love for this model to one day grace the tabletops. So I have been trying my hand at whipping together some (hopefully) reasonable and fun rules. To save myself some time I have attempted to scrounge the internet so I might pillage other people's hard work. Which led me to Midwinter Minis own attempts.

https://www.midwinterminis.com/gargant-rules

I like the base stats and the Gargant Forcefield seems like a fun rule. I have moved around the weapon profiles to better fit my own gargant's configuration of weapons. I was unsure if I should make that nest of cannons a single weapon or count them individually.



Let me know what you think and please point out if I have made anything glaringly broken.

Gaze of Mork has a typo. Strength 5+ and AP 16.
Mega Rokkit has Anto-[EVERYTHING] but doesn't have a number listed for that.

It feels really strong, but has no points cost. I'll compare to the (3,500 point) Warlord Titan.

One less Toughness, which actually might matter with S8 wounding on a 5+ instead of on a 6.
Same Armor.
6++ vs. 5++ (Ranged Only) would, I think, give the edge to the Warlord.
Same Wounds, OC, and Ld.

Now, rules.
Same walking ability.
Warlord Titan has a 4X Multiplier on CP costs. I would ABSOLUTELY saddle this thing with the same penalty.
Warlord Titan also forces a single Battleshock after shooting.
Gargant gives bonus to Battleshock for friendly Orks, and has 2d6 extra Wounds every Command Phase. Definitely Gargant is the better one.

Melee...
Arioch Power Claw has 12 less Strength, 1 less AP, but twice the damage. That damage feels reasonable, given that this thing doesn't have a proper melee weapon, just guns. But the increased Strength and AP feel weird relative to the Warlord.
Slap has twice as many attacks as Arioch's Sweep, but 5 less damage. Honestly? I'd say the Slap is better than the Sweep. Still mulches Gravis and similar, and with twice attacks at better WS... Yeah.
Gargant also have Extra Attacks at a decent profile. Warlord does not.

And finally, shooting.
Warlord has: Two Apocalypse Launchers OR Laser Blasters; and two from Volcano Cannon, Gatling Blaster, Quake Cannon, Plasma, and Arioch Power Claw.

Against hordes...
60 SH1 shots plus 40 Blast Indirect Fire shots, hitting on a 3+, wounding on a 2+ (probably) and at AP-2, D2 or D3. That's 50+about 28 or just shy of 80 hits, 65ish wounds.

Against Elites...
Honestly, same thing. Just less wounds due to better saves and higher Toughness.

Against Vehicles/Monsters...
2d3+6 Volcano Cannon (S32 AP-5 D18) shots on a 3+, and 12 Laser Blaster (S16 AP-4 Dd6+3) shots on a 3+ too.
5-6 wounds at AP-5 D18.
5-6 at AP-4 Dd6+3.
That's enough to paste most things... But not QUITE enough to kill another Warlord TItan.

Gargant:
Two hits at S16 AP-? (assuming 5) Dd6+6
4 hits at S12 AP-3 Dd3 DW
1-3 hits at S24 AP-5 D2d6+12
15 hits at S9 AP-2 D2 TL
1-2 hits at S10 AP-2 Dd6 OR 10-11 hits (plus 5*Blast) at S6 AP0 D1
2-3 hits (plus Blast*4 shots) at S9 AP-2 D3

Against Hordes...
23 dead from non-Blast, 8-10 from Kannons, 4 or so from Rokkits, or 30-40 dead from hordes.

Against a Warlord Titan...
1 wound for 5++, Dd6+6
2/3rds wound at 5++ Dd3, 2/3rds of a Dev Wound at Dd3
7/6 at 5++, D2d6+12
8 and 1/3rd wounds at 4+ D2
About half a wound at 4+ Dd6
About one wound at 4+ D3
Total for...

Huh. Only about 33 wounds dealt.

Which leads me to my final thoughts...

Holy crap that's a lot of rolling.
In ONE shooting phase, against a big target, you've got 20 dice rolled to determine number of shots. You've got nearly 100 dice just on hit rolls, THEN you need to wound.

Like, dice fun. But this feels a little much.

Great breakdown from JNA. To tag onto that:

* I think trying to assign points to titanic models is kind of folly in the first place. They're kind of impossible to balance against mundane infantry, tanks, etc. I only ever see things like this used in silly special event days where you're just trying to throw dice at eachother and balance doesn't really matter anyway. So with all that in mind, you *might* consider just grabbing the closest matching titan datasheet you can find and just using those rules.

* I do, in fact, like the forcefield mechanic. It would be neat if we could figure out a way to do something similar with infantry-level forcefields without creating too much bookkeeping.

* As JNA pointed out, that's a lot of rolling. You could probably consolidate some of the similar profiles together. Keep in mind that the more dice you roll, the stronger the bell curve of the results. So statistically, 5 rokkits making d3 attacks is pretty close to just making each one do 2 attacks. You could replace random attacks with a flat number of attacks on most if not all your random shot weapons and dramatically speed up the time it takes to shoot this guy without really changing the math too much.

Oops! My apologies for the typos, I'll have to go back do more proof reading.

I think the great gargant is supposed to be around the same level as a warlord. I feel foolish for not looking at the warlord stats myself. I suppose I could make the great gargant the same price as the warlord; although, orks should be a little cheaper than their imperial counterparts. I could just make it a flat 3000 points or maybe 2500.

You're definitely right, I completely missed the CP penalty on the Midwinter datasheet and the warlord has that as well. I'll definitely be adding that on.

For melee I could tone down the ap and damage on the punch profile. I suppose most other orkish weapons have a higher strength but lower ap and damage.

For shooting, their are two routes I could go. I could consolidate all of those kannons into a single weapon profile rather than having twenty different kannons. Maybe just call it 'the barrage'. Or like Wyldhunt suggested I could keep them as ten separate guns, but remove a lot of the randomness from the number of shots.

Either way, thanks for the advice so far. I'm glad to hear that what I have is half decent for my first try and making up rules.

Give it at least BS4+, it's a bloody Gargant for Gork's and/or Mork's sake.

Oh, did you use a site to generate the datasheet?
Or just your own editing chops?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh, did you use a site to generate the datasheet?
Or just your own editing chops?

Mostly with this handy datacard editing website I found.

https://game-datacards.eu/

I just needed to fill the proper boxes and the website set up everything else.

I'm torn on the BS. There are lots of ways to give it 4+ if I bring infantry. But if it's a titan only battle, some kind of way to give it 4+ would be nice.

 Mr Nobody wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh, did you use a site to generate the datasheet?
Or just your own editing chops?

Mostly with this handy datacard editing website I found.

https://game-datacards.eu/

I just needed to fill the proper boxes and the website set up everything else.

Dope. Thank you!

Don't have anything useful to add about stats, but I'd love to see pics of this thing in parts, the build process, painting, etc if you've got a project log somewhere.

Sounds like an amazing project.

 Eilif wrote:
Don't have anything useful to add about stats, but I'd love to see pics of this thing in parts, the build process, painting, etc if you've got a project log somewhere.

Sounds like an amazing project.

Indeed I do! I haven't posted much so far, but that will change soon.

You can find my posts Here

You just need to make all the guns BS6 and give everything Sustained 4.

That seems Orky.

Looking back at the model, I think those big shoulder cannons are a little bigger than killcannons and I need to reduce some of those random shots. So lets see if these are a better weapon:

Quad Krushas Range 60 A 2 BS 5+ S 10 AP -3 D 6
*Twin Linked

With four of those on the back, a few shots are bound to get through a knight or warhound.

I'm also looking to print this exact model, and like to find some rules for it.. is there any source of official rules, even from an earlier edition? I think there was some custom ork vehicle design charts from another edition, just cant remember which.

 Spreelock wrote:
I'm also looking to print this exact model, and like to find some rules for it.. is there any source of official rules, even from an earlier edition? I think there was some custom ork vehicle design charts from another edition, just cant remember which.

I found a few scraps here and there, but honestly, working from those older additions was such a headache. With power creep and stat changes they felt redundant.

For design and scale I did find this handy, old chart.

I think I have a data sheet that is both fair and fun to play. I've reduced some of the random rolls so make the dice rolling a little easier.