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 Snord wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
On the contrary that was the old GW model. The reason for the 3 year cycle is to periodically remonetize the existing customer base, which is a much more sustainable business model than relying on perpetual new customer churn.

Maybe you know something I don’t, but I don’t see any real evidence of that. The reaction of established players to major revisions to rules and units would also suggest the opposite. In fact I think they’ve actually become more ruthless about this business model, especially with the 3-year edition cycle - everything feels more disposable. The only qualification is that, as far as WH40k is concerned, they are also pandering to the competitive lobby - possibly because they seem to be prepared to discard existing models and buy large quantities of whatever is newly competitive whenever the meta changes (which is frequently).

The only evidence i have is my eyes. We all complain about the 3 year cycle but we all go back for another hit and give them our money like addicts. This HH release is the first ive seen of any major resistance to follow the cycle.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Snord wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
On the contrary that was the old GW model. The reason for the 3 year cycle is to periodically remonetize the existing customer base, which is a much more sustainable business model than relying on perpetual new customer churn.

Maybe you know something I don’t, but I don’t see any real evidence of that. The reaction of established players to major revisions to rules and units would also suggest the opposite. In fact I think they’ve actually become more ruthless about this business model, especially with the 3-year edition cycle - everything feels more disposable. The only qualification is that, as far as WH40k is concerned, they are also pandering to the competitive lobby - possibly because they seem to be prepared to discard existing models and buy large quantities of whatever is newly competitive whenever the meta changes (which is frequently).

The only evidence i have is my eyes. We all complain about the 3 year cycle but we all go back for another hit and give them our money like addicts. This HH release is the first ive seen of any major resistance to follow the cycle.

Tbf, the HH crowd was made up of the vets that had enough from mainline 40k to a large degree.

I'm just using this whole debacle as a recruiting drive for Adeptus Titanicus.

We haven't had a new book in forever, but we keep getting new models (with rules!) - so join on to the best Horus Heresy game ever written!

I think that if anything hurts 30k sales, it won't be the new core rules or even the loss of options, it was when GW decided to cut every 30k unit out of 40k, removing a major market for the kits.

chaos0xomega wrote:
The only evidence i have is my eyes. We all complain about the 3 year cycle but we all go back for another hit and give them our money like addicts. This HH release is the first ive seen of any major resistance to follow the cycle.

Yes, that's absolutely true. CCS put up a post in the Heresy N&R section that summarises our addiction:

"Look, I've explained this to you anti-GW types (maybe even you specifically) before.
They make models, I buy models.
When they make models that satisfy me concerning Price/Quality (including sculpt, material, etc)/My interests & needs/Availability (to an extent)? They get my $.
When they fail? They don't make a sale.
It's that simple.
I foresee this pattern continuing until I'm dead or shortly before. Or they go out of business. Wichever comes 1st. And I know wich I'm betting on."

But remember that those of us posting on forums are not really typical of the majority of players. Every time GW churns out a new edition, a proportion of its player base says 'f**k it, I'm out'. Killing off the Old World in favour of AoS did it, and the last few editions of WH40k did it too. I suspect that GW have worked out that the shelf life of an average player is about 3 years. So after that period they can basically start the whole thing again; the profits from the influx of new players more than justifies the loss of a proportion of their more established players.

GW makes great models, and the Horus Heresy line is one of my favorites they have ever produced. I will continue to build my Salamanders army of mostly 30K Marines, because I put that project off for too long. I'm super excited about the new Saturnine figures, and I'm planning on getting at least one of the new starter sets.

That said, I will not be playing any games with GW rules again in my lifetime. To get the updated army books I need for my armies I'm planning or have would cost too much money, and I would rather put that towards the minis. Rather, I'm writing my own mini-agnostic rules to play my games with that I can include my other sci-fi armies from other armies and games I have accumulated over the years. I'm having more fun in writing and play testing my own game with my closest gaming buddies than I ever did with GW or other games over the years. I'm just at a point in my life that I want to work on projects that I have always wanted to do, and I figured this is as good a time as any to do it.

But to anyone that wants to play HH 3.0, go for it! I bear no ill will towards other rules or anyone who enjoys them. Have fun, and get some more paint on those minis!

Unfortunately I think the probability of enough people declining to buy into the new edition to push GW to rethink the rulebook treadmill approach is vanishingly small. I do however wish they would get that kind of jolt which might make them look again at their approach, ideally decide to slow down the cycle and also invest just a little bit more time and resource into the quality of the rules writing, but don't have much hope of it happening.

I won't be buying into the new rules myself, but will continue to pick up models as and when they make something I like at a price point I'm willing to buy (e.g. hopefully the fellblade). I guess this is where I differ from CCS, and it's not really about being "anti-GW" - but I take the same approach with the printed materials as I do the models (if I don't think the cost/quality is worth it I don't buy it, if I think it is I do), I don't get the folks (and plenty of evidence of them around) who seem to feel they have to buy the GW rules (even when they know they're poor quality for the cost) just because they do like the models. You don't have to do both.

I'm not planning on playing HH3.0, but not for any of the reasons everyone online is complaining about.

I bought into 2.0 and was pretty excited to get into it, but I just haven't had the time with getting more into the competitive side of 40k, without dropping off the casual / narrative side. I've gotten all of 2 games of 30k in since 2.0 dropped and that's just not enough for me to invest into more books and models I will hardly ever use. On top of that, there's nothing in the box set that I'd use in 40k since I already have more tactical marines than I'd ever need and the others won't get rules...

I might give it a spin if I have the time once waha gets all the rules there, but I'm not investing in another batch of books I'll hardly ever use.

Heresy Hammer have produced what is basically a ‘how to cope with 3rd Edition’ video. It’s quite helpful. However, it pre-dates the news regarding the contents of (and rationale for) the pdf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzKg0L3XBBo

I'm going to buy the Knight and Titan book, because I love AT, and more stories, and useless trivia makes me happy.

Ii still look at the old Knight codicies and AT campaign books for fun.


Plus, I might be able to play HH 3.0, as it costs too much for me to play 2.0 (needed another 300+ dollars to buy/build/paint the Armiger Tax, and couldn't use the Moriax).

 Snord wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
The only evidence i have is my eyes. We all complain about the 3 year cycle but we all go back for another hit and give them our money like addicts. This HH release is the first ive seen of any major resistance to follow the cycle.

Yes, that's absolutely true. CCS put up a post in the Heresy N&R section that summarises our addiction:

"Look, I've explained this to you anti-GW types (maybe even you specifically) before.
They make models, I buy models.
When they make models that satisfy me concerning Price/Quality (including sculpt, material, etc)/My interests & needs/Availability (to an extent)? They get my $.
When they fail? They don't make a sale.
It's that simple.
I foresee this pattern continuing until I'm dead or shortly before. Or they go out of business. Wichever comes 1st. And I know wich I'm betting on."

But remember that those of us posting on forums are not really typical of the majority of players. Every time GW churns out a new edition, a proportion of its player base says 'f**k it, I'm out'. Killing off the Old World in favour of AoS did it, and the last few editions of WH40k did it too. I suspect that GW have worked out that the shelf life of an average player is about 3 years. So after that period they can basically start the whole thing again; the profits from the influx of new players more than justifies the loss of a proportion of their more established players.

Yeah, that's it. I remember watching a video interview of someone who used to work at GW laying it out:
* Plastic kit molds are so expensive that if they dont expect to see sales in the 100k's, they wont do it
* The most money spent on GW stores comes from middle aged women (Lil Timmy's mom)
* Player retention is somewhere between 3-4 years ie. they dont make business decisions for people like us

Now granted, HH audience isnt the same audience as 40K/AOS, but I'm not convinced the management realizes this..

These are the harsh realities of modern GW and many people huff copium like madmen trying to delulu thinking they matter