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The following is from the latest Tyranid FAQ:

Q. Is the Hive Tyrant an independent character?
A. No, so it cannot join other units. The only exception to this is, of course, its retinue of Tyrant Guard. This unit follows the rules for retinues (except that the Tyrant counts as an upgrade character with this unit) until the Guards are all destroyed, at which point the Tyrant reverts to the normal rules for monstrous creatures.

How does one interpret this ruling?

My assumptions (which are probably wrong):

Tyrants cannot be specifically targeted in close combat if they have Tyrant Guard until all Guard are removed and the Tyrant gets full attacks even if not directly in base contact with an enemy model. This is similar to the "hidden power fists" in Marine squads.

If the Tyrant has Toxic Miasma, then the effects are counted for the entire combat since the unit with TM is being attacked. (this does not seem to be the intent of Toxic Miasma, but then...)

Not to you particularly, Megalodon, but which rules for retinues are we talking about? The Tau FAQ also refers to retinues.

I posted this topic to get community opinions specifically concerning the Tyranid Retinue Ruling as the Subject line indicates and the first post expands on. Not sure how this could be misunderstood to be about Tau retinues, but I hope this makes clear what am asking about.

Definitely agree with you on point 1 - the Tyrant is a hidden 'fist equivalent.

Not sure about Toxic Miasma, will have to check my codex for the wording.

Toxic Miasma

Any creature being attacked by, or directing its attacks towards a Tyranid with a Toxic Miasma reduces its WS by 1.

It sounds like the Tyrant would count TM when attacking, but I'm not sure about when being attacked.

Megladon:

Regarding Toxic Miasma, one can claim that the Tyrant is not having attacks directed at him, but rather the unit he is included in. For example, it is entirely possible that the Tyrant won't end up having any wounds allocated to him when all is said and done.

For me, I believe it is enough of a grey area that I will take the lesser interpretation and not use Toxic Miasma's effects until the Tyrant Guard are wiped out.

>>I posted this topic to get community opinions specifically concerning the Tyranid Retinue Ruling as the Subject line indicates and the first post expands on. Not sure how this could be misunderstood to be about Tau retinues, but I hope this makes clear what am asking about.

Not misunderstood, not understood.

I do not have the Nid codex. Is there a set of rules in the Nid codex referring to a formation, unit type or list options called a "retinue?" I couldn't find any rules on retinues in the BGB. However, the Tau FAQ (though not the codex) refers to retinues, and I am aware there is some material regarding retinues in the SM codex. Consequently I am confused about what a retinue is, in game terms.

If GW have established a new type of unit called a retinue, it potentially affects every army.

Pg 51 of the rulebook discusses ICs and their retinues.

Most codexes have "retinues" or "bodyguards" that may accompany an IC and together they take up a single FOC slot.


The 4th edition rules seem to imply that ICs with retinues do not lose their IC status, and idea that was upheld by the first three fourth edition codexes (SM, Tyranid, BT). None of these codexes used the verbage: "unless accompanied by a retinue the XXX is an independent character", instead they simply refered you to the main rules for ICs (which tell you how to treat an IC with a retinue on page 51).

Unfortunately, GW also never put into any FAQs for the old 3rd edition codexes that such verbage should be changed, so by the RAW all the codexes that still say: "unless accompanied by a retinue the XXX is an independent character" have a major flaw in that those characters with retinues shouldn't follow the IC rules at all (which means they wouldn't fight as a seperate unit in CC).

Worst of all, the Tau codex uses this same 3rd edition verbage, which means (as upheld by the new FAQ) that Tau ICs with retinues do not fight seperately from their bodyguard unit.

Whether this was an intentional design move to protect TAU ICs we'll never know, but it'll be interesting to see what GW decides to do with the Eldar codex!

Thanks Yakface,

I'll study that page tonight.

Wouldn't the tyrant still need to be in base contact to get its swings? The Tyrant Guard rules only override the fact that you can pick out the tyrant in close combat. It doesn't say anything about removing the other MC restrictions.

Posted By nobody on 08/25/2006 6:12 AM
Wouldn't the tyrant still need to be in base contact to get its swings? The Tyrant Guard rules only override the fact that you can pick out the tyrant in close combat. It doesn't say anything about removing the other MC restrictions.

The pertinent FAQ entry:

Q. Is the Hive Tyrant an independent character?
A. No, so it cannot join other units. The only exception to this is, of course, its retinue of Tyrant Guard. This unit follows the rules for retinues (except that the Tyrant counts as an upgrade character with this unit) until the Guards are all destroyed, at which point the Tyrant reverts to the normal rules for monstrous creatures.

I highlighted a portion of the FAQ entry above. This highlighted phrase indicates to me that the Hive Tyrant is considered to be an integral part of the Tyrant Guard unit in the same way a Veteran Sargeant in a Space Marine unit. This would allow the Tyrant to attack even if not in base-to-base contact.

Following this line of reasoning leads me to conclude that at least when attacking the Hive Tyrant would benefit from the Toxic Miasma biomorph.

Posted By nobody on 08/25/2006 6:12 AM
Wouldn't the tyrant still need to be in base contact to get its swings? The Tyrant Guard rules only override the fact that you can pick out the tyrant in close combat. It doesn't say anything about removing the other MC restrictions.

There is no MC restriction. That was 3rd edition. They forgot to say "MCs fight as their own unit in hth" in 4th.

So indeed a tyrant with guard is untargetable and does not need to be in base to swing.

That's why they call them Tyrant GUARD...


I hope that in 2016 when the 4th edition IG codex comes out, that IG characters get the same protection from their (obligatory) retinues as Tyranids and Tau do. Maybe it would be worth taking power fists on officers again then...