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Ok, I play Imperial Guard and Salamander Space Marines, and Chaos were my first army. I have been playing for many years now.

I play true to themes, and as such I have a fairly low win ratio - and it's getting me a reputation in my area.

Now, I believe that it's time for a turn of fortune. I am seeking advice on how to build an extremely brutal, highly competative, non-daemon bomb Chaos force, that rips the enemy's heart out and shows it to their face - I want them to know they are dead.

In short, I am searching for advice on what makes a really competative Chaos army.

Any help would be much appreciated, please help a fellow Veteran gamer out.

If you don't like demonbomb, I suggest Iron Warriors.

Also, depending on whether or not you plan on playing in random missions, or any non-infiltrate missions, the Night Lords can also be very good.

The others rely pretty heavily on daemons.

I am considering a close-combat Iron Warriors firce, but then I usually feel it may be bette ras Black Legion.

I suppose I sohuld clarrify something...

I like using Daemons. I just don't want to go total Deamon Bomb on the list front.

What units are usually considered to be very effectivein the Chaos 'dex - one thing I am almost certainly considering is Havocs w/ 4 Autocannons + Tank Hunter. Any other gems that should be included?


I also don't want to go strictly shooting - my Sallies and Guard are pretty shooty-based, so I was thinking an assualty force, but with some serious shooting support.

I am aiming for 2000 points. This suggest to me a shooty base in the form of Havocs, a nasty Prince and Greater Daemon combo, with some lesser Deamons for support, followed up with maybe Bikes or Daemon Packs. Does this sound effective?

How about mixng Chaos Marks, to perhaps include some Tzeentch troops for move+fire support, or should I stick to Undivided/single Mark?

I know that mobility is vital to 40K these days. What is the best way to add this to a Chaos army - Deepstikers, Bikes, Raptors, Infiltrate or Rhino-bourne troops?

Alpha Legion is also good.

You can do a good Black Legion force too since they can take every option in the codex.

Word has it that an Undivided Legion with a lot of Khorne heavy stuff is particularly brutal. You can get a good mix of Khorne assaulty Death while still keeping stuff like Obliterators and cheap small Las/Plas squads.

Some indirect firing Defilers are never a bad idea either. Neither is a Demon Prince.

Perhaps Slaanesh Siren Prince+Loads of Daemonettes, with Blasmaster havocs and Tank Hunters?

Also, Termie heavy Emperor's Children can be very fun close combat with shooting support list.

Competitive chaos is actually pretty easy, even without the Daemonbomb. My Night Lords win far more than they lose, and I know others who can say the same with pretty much any army.

Hey Treadhead,

You'll do fine with all the options in the Chaos Codex.

I only have a pointer, in the army lists section of Dakka you will find a thread by the renowned Therion on IW which will teach you the foundations of brutality.

Also I have a thread on BL lists @ 1700 points which might be of assistance, especially the advice given by Longshot.

Building blocks of Chaos lists IMHO are:

Lord/Prince (My advice don't go overboard but keep them cheap, make them a target)

Lieut (I swear by the following config: Lieut - Bike, Melta, Dark Blade, MoCU, Icon; but a lot of very nice cheap Lieut can be very brutal. For example Therion once used IIRC Lieut - Infiltrate, Manreaper, MoN, Strength, Speed)

Obliterators (Have little experience with these myself, but they have a good rep here on Dakka)

Las/Plas squads (Same as with loyalists)

Daemons (Sprinkle lightly with some Deamons, even when not Daemonbombing I'd strongly advise using a unit of 8 Furies for tying-up opposing fire. Daemonettes and their Mounted variant are also good; use Daemonettes in units of 6, never 12, more squads is always better)

Beyond these elements it's up to you realy; what do you like. Infiltrate? do an AL list. Fast and mobile? BL or NL. The codex is the most flexible out there. And the conversion options!...

Good luck with your list, let us know what you're doing with Chaos.

Ciltihan out...

 

 

Is mix n' matching Marks a good idea?

I am having some ideas based around Slaanesh bikers, Lt on bike, 2x Tzeentch Marines and some Obliterators.

The Bikes and Lt are a combat unit, adn the Tzeentch/Oblits provide a really solid move+shoot centre to back up the CSMs, who will be outfitted for Assualt.

Does that sounds like a good firebase/assualt mixture, or do I lack heavy weapons?

I am also torn between Undivided and Night Lords - the latter gives me more FA, but I can barely use Daemons at all, and no mixing Marks.

Mixing marks isn't a problem (except in the Legions lists)

However, using Thousand Sons is.

Consider a Havoc squad, 8 strong with 4 ACs and Tank Hunter. Thats 8 S8 shots verse vehicles. Takes down skimmer fleets better than anything in the game, I think.

Khorne troops on the surface are very brutal but Slaanesh ones with doom sirens are pretty nuts.

I think the more vanilla legions are the best, personally. All the marked armies run into severe model count problems or range shortage etc that can cause them problems. They're fairly one-dimensional.

Slaanesh's shootie guys backed by rending init5 demons is probably the best of the marked lists. Nurgle with lots of terminators for ranged antitank is OK. Khorne is probably third tier with a swarm of raging infantry. Tzeentch is just, blah.

Ironwarriors are OK as an assaulty force, but there're two reasons to take Iron Warriors - extra obliterators and an extra heavy slot. If you're not taking advantage of those, I wouldn't bother.

Alpha legion, Night Lords, or Slaanesh, would be my picks for powerful mixed take-all-comers style armies.

(Just so you don't think I'm a total mental defective, I am aware that the iron warrior shootie army is probably the best all-around Chaos army,  but the guy asked about an assaulty style army, and IW is overshadowed there by the cool crap the other lists get I think)

A buddy of mine's night lords do very well with something like this:

Daemon prince with defensive upgrades, strength, and a dark blade

6 termies, 2 with reaper autocannons, one fist and one chainfist, tankhunters
2 obliterators

3 x 10 man walking squads with stealth adept (one with two plasma and bolters, two with two meltaguns and powerfists/bp/ccw)

2 x 6 man raptor squads with some stuff (3 meltaguns and 3 flamers I think, and a fist vet)
2 x 10 man fury squads

Or something around there. It's not uber optimized but it does really well.