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Ok, so, I've decided to sit down and make up a new list for my marines as opposed to quit (as I said before, go figure ). This list capitolizes on the durability of marines, and the ability to take large number of specialist units. It focuses on flanking attacks and having several small firebase squads and a few big counter-assault squads.

Hopefully it'll prove to be a rewarding list that can face several different opponents in a competitive (and somewhat friendly, it's a good mix at my store) atmosphere.



My initial idea is to have the chappy fly with the assault marines to secure objectives and harass big baddies. The master will simply hang back and aid the fire support squads with his leadership, and rush in to charge any chargers. The Speeders will support the assault boys and scouts, with snipers and the rest hanging back for fire lane control.

Ideas? Suggestions? Praises for my inate tactical genius?

This is going to sound nit-picky but you should probably go with 7 man Tac squads. For test purposes - a seven man squad needs to lose 3 models in order to have to test for leadership but a six man squad only has to lose two. It doesn't seem to make a huge differenence but it won me a game once... Seems alright otherwise - can't see a real weakness with it.

Scouts suck.

Celtic needs to read the 4th edition rulebook with regards to morale, as well as understanding that 2/7 > 25%

Can’t understand the point in equipping a jump pack chappy with a powerfist....

First you’re losing the plus in initiative you get when you bought the chappy

Second you already have your hidden powerfist on the assault sarge

I think it is a good idea to deliver your attacks first, using the crozius as energy weapon, that waiting for last round to deliver your powerfist attack and get killed in the process (the enemy can assign all their return attacks to the chappy instead of the assault squad)

The other thing i don't like is the tornado speeder squadron. Its a little bit of an overkill... with that unit you use 240 point for a platform of 9 heavy bolter and 12 assault cannon shoots per turn... but you will be shotting all that firepower to just one unit..... better to split the tornados in separate squadrons, so you can deliver heavy damage to two units per turn....

Hmm, I get the feeling this is a post-buy list making do with the figures you have, so I'm guessing you'll only be able to do so many changes. (repainting unit badges, simple conversions, maybe handwaving some stuff depending on the charity of your opponents) So this isn't geared to making the best MEQ list - other and more experienced players than I have that down to a perhaps too popular science - just tweaking yours slightly.

If you have the Reclusiarch model with a Powerfist, and really want to use him as such...I would try to hand wave the power fist as a Thunder Hammer ("ancient Chaplain skillz") ditch the Iron Halo on the Master, and buy the chappy an extra wound, Terminator Honours, an Adamantine Mantle, and maybe Bionics. With 3+/4+ invulnerable/6+ bionic and immunity to instant death, he has the chance to survive long enough to smack truly frightening stuff with his hammer, thus slowing them down to his level. Sort of an imitation of a Daemonhunters Grandmaster, except with a jump pack. Not an optimal choice - I use a simple jump pack/ccw/frag/melta on my chappy - but that's the way to do a Chappy with an I1 weapon, IMHO. Also, keep in mind he can still strike at I5, just with -1 A as I don't believe he can use the Thunderhammer for extra attack. Frag grenades are unfortunately pointless with a Thunderhammer as the hammer cancels them out, not the other way around.

I'd ditch the plasma pistol on the Assault Squad Sergeant as you don't need your hidden fist shooting himself in the foot. I'd also consider taking the Trait that allows Assault Squads to fight as Elites - this gives them Furious Charge for 30 points, and more importantly, frees up a Fast Attack Slot. That lets you break your speeders into 3 units of one.

If you can do it, I would suggest a Power Fist on the Scout Sergeant of the large unit, and a heavy bolter for them. The bolter is 5 points and gives them something to do if they find themselves without a target, and the Power Fist makes them almost as dangerous in assault as the jump packers - the only difference being -1 Save. SV is somewhat less important in combat, as Close Combat weapons tend to allow a save or ignore it entirely, unlike shooting weapons where 3+ save is a big step up from 4+ due to heavy bolters, Griffons, etc.

I do not like the plasma cannon in the tactical unit. Remember, you have to center the template on a single enemy model. Wouldn't you rather have a proper lascannon - which tacticals can get for a very good cost compared to most things in the marine Codex?

I also do not like the storm bolter on the Master. He should carry a pistol, like any self-respecting Officer - and any self-respecting power-sword wielding Marine. The Iron Halo, as I have all ready stated, does not rank among the strongest relics IMHO.

The Devastators look a little funny. They don't have much more firepower than a comparable Tactical Squad - in fact, their equipment could be taken by a Command Squad. I would try to give them each a third missile launcher. I am a large fan of Honor Your Wargear as I like to deploy my anti-tank units after my opponent's tanks, and Tank Hunters doesn't hurt too much - but the call is up to you.

If you use a trait, it should be pretty easy to find an irrelevant drawback (like "0-1 tanks, 0-3 APCs," "no relics," or "no drop pods")

GL with the army.

Hmm.

This is mostly post-buy if you will... I have most of the infantyr, but not much in the way of speeders (read: any).

Hate to say it, Celtic Strike, but General Nuke'em is right regarding math.

But, General, could you elaborate on "Scouts suck." a little? Seems like an unbased opinion as is.

Santanero: I put the fist on the chaplain becuase of an always-present condition in my games: my IC's invariably end up being charged, or having the best resort being to charge, a large terrible gribbly. I'd rather have him fully able to smack it down.

As for the tornados, I do agree with both of you: I'll split'em up.

Wight_widow: your ubber deathy chappy of doom setup sounds very cool indeed (I wish I didn't convert such a cool chappy with a fist)... I can probably make a new chappy to match that wargear, I think it's worth taking him for a spin (although he is a lot of points, it'd be fun).

Eh, the sarge can keep his plasma pistol: I actually have amazingly good fortunes -knock on wood- with plasma weapons and not losing marines, but I understand the idea. The death assault squad is an interesting idea... S9 powerfist, mmm...

Decent idea on the scouts, I'll strongly consider that when I re-write the list in a few.

Eh, figured I'd try soemthing new, and keep the tacticals mainly anti-infantry. We'll see.

The storm bolter was more of a runnign with tacticals, so better shoot idea. That way he'll be padded and provide the army with Ld10. Hmm.

If I cna free up some points, I might flehs out the dev': in my experience having one dedidcated AT squad is a bad thing: they'll die. We'll see what points I cna re-arrange.

By my calculation - and I have had a few, plus I keep failing math - is if you lose two marines in a seven man squad that adds up to 23% of the squad total not 25% as is required for shooting casualites.

2/8 == 1/4 == .25 == 25%

How exactly could 2/7 be 23%?

ACK feth it! Sorry - I was wrong. I'm apparently slowed as anything above addition I get wrong. 3 Casualties in a 7 man squad adds up to 28% or something. Which through a simple process of subtraction we all see is higher then 25%....

You need 9 - 12 guys in order two lose three. Sorry.

Hmmm.... I've been playing on those calulations for a while now - I can't believe someone didn't call me on it...... Weird. [STUPID FRIENDS! Bunch of math-leiths over here apparently]

I think you should at least make two teams of landspeeders give people more to shoot at. You can still fire everything at one unit but having the option of splitting fire is always nice too. [Why I play Tau now...]

I find LD 10 to be a must, can't tell you how often I fail LD8/9 tests. [Way more then half the time, plus I'll have to take more now cos of learning a thing about the '%' button on my calculator]

Losing the Int 5 on the Chap sucks, unless you're against Dark Eldar or Banshees in which case it doesn't really matter.] Drop the fist and give him the Mantel.

Wow Longshot my two posts were nearly 13 minutes apart and you dove in there. Really quick. PS -I know the mantel costs more then the Powerfist but I'm sure you could find the points somewhere.

How do I tag something so that it follows me around on every post? [It's been told in other places but I can't find it.] I think everyone needs to be reminded of my amazing math skills. :-)

Celtic Strike: watch the language, dude. This is a family forum.

FF: Remember, YOU said competitive.

1. Master needs to have his role better defined. Is he just a leadership bubble? Lose the PW, or give him Termie armor (a retinue wouldn't be a bad thing either). You want him to mix it up? Lose the SB...Actually, just lose the SB. And the bionics. If 3 wounds and the IH don't save him, that 6+ won't either. As for the chappie, leave the PF, it makes for a nice anti-tank weapon. Just turn it off when you get into HTH.

2. Scouts are deep-strike delivery vehicles (infiltrating telehomers). That's it. Lose 'em if you're not going to take terminators.

3. 6 man las/plas. period. If you prefer, do 5-man las/plas, or just las. You can even mix in a PC if it makes you feel better, but las las las.

4. I prefer flamers on my Assault Marines, but that's a matter of personal taste.

5. Remember how you got rid of those Scouts? Good. Use the points to buy your dev squads more missile launchers. They can take 4, in a squad of 6, 3 is probably a good number. Or buy two more bodies each and get a 4th ML.

Sorry