Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Being born and raised in Ireland I decided to make a SM army based on the ancient barbarian hordes. ['Cept this time they were put in futuristic transports with amazing armour] I recently finished painting up everything and making some really nice conversions for the list. [Four wheeled Razor back based off the APC from Aliens, people with beards and a guy with wings] I just need to get my digital camera working to post them. Anyway they're called 'Ghosts of Collins' [English and Irish people know who he is] but I decided to go for the barbarian horde cos I didn't want to buy 45 more scouts with sniper rifles. Here's the list of everything I just finished painting.

Ghosts Of Collins [1,500 PT]

Major Divergence:
Advantage:           No Mercy, No Respite
                               Take the fight to them
Disadvantage:     Eye to Eye

HQ:

[-] Warlord + Artificer Armour + Auspex + Frag + M. Bomb +                       _____
Iron Halo + Adamantine Mantel + P. Weapon + Bolt Pistol                          192

TROOPS:
[-] 6 Warriors [Furious Charge] Frag + Veteran Attack honours +             _____
P. Fist + C. Sheild + Meltagun                                                                            163
[+] Razorback + D. Blade + X. Armour + S. Bolter + Smoke                            93

[-] 6 Warriors [Furious Charge] Frag + Veteran Attack honours +              _____
P. Fist + C. Sheild + Meltagun                                                                            163
[+] Razorback + D. Blade + X. Armour + S. Bolter + Smoke                            93

ELITES:
[-] 5 Veterans [Furious Charge] + Frag + Squad Attack Honours +             _____
P. Fist + C. Shield + P. Pistol + Lightning Claws + P. Weapon                     224
[+] Razorback + L. Cannon + D. Blade + X. Armour + S.Bolter + Smoke     113

FAST ATTACK:
[-] 5 Jump Warriors [Furious Charge] + Veteran Attack honours +              _____
P. Fist + Combat Shield + 2 P. Pistols + M. Bombs                                         185
                                                                                                                                  _____
[-] 3 Bikes + Veteran Attack honours + P. Fist + Meltagun + C. Sheild          141

HEAVY SUPPORT:                                                                                                _____
[-] Predator D. + H. Bolters + X. Armour + S. Bolter + Smoke                         128
                                                                                                                                ______
                                                     Total:                                                                   1495

                                                     Total Troops : 26 + 3 Transports and 1 Tank

Unsurprisingly I've been having some manpower issues but all in all my win record has gone up. I've been sucessful with deploying in a box and concentrating everything on one part of my opponents line - using cover and smoke for the advance. Been having trouble with IG. Suggestions? Comments? Over all Riddicule [On my spelling or otherwise.... damn words.]

Why'd it post twice? It wouldn't let me post this list for 5 days [I kept getting error messages] now it posts twice! I hate when gak like that happens

Too many toys, not enough boys, at 1500 pts.

Agreed. 26 models for a 1500 pt game. It'll be over by turn 3.

As someone who plays close combat marines (Black Templars), I would never go into a 1500 pt game of 40k with less than 35 power armored marines. My "Old School list" has 3 rhinos with 10, 10, and 9 marines, two characters, and 8 assault marines. Depending on what I want for support, I can add 5 termies. My infantry hoard 1500 pt list fields 30 power armored models, 6 termies, and 10 neophytes.

In 4th ed, I expect to lose between 30 and 40% of my troops before I can engage in the decisive close combats that will (hopefully) win the game.

I was thinking about dropping the elite squad [As much fun as I've had with them taking down Carnifi] and just adding a ten man Squad in a Rhino. Probably help my man power issues a lot.

I'd drop the dozer blades and the pintle stormbolters off the Razorbacks. Drop the bikes as well, and spend the saved points on another Assault squad.

Your commander can't have both the Iron Halo and the Adamantine Mantle; one relic per army. Choose one. He doesn't need the auspex, but it's not like the points will make a huge difference.

You need more ranged antitank; the lone Razorback with LCs will die like a dog to any guns first. The fact that it carries such a pricey squad doubles its danger.

hehe...saw the movie, snipers most definitely would be in flavour considering how de Valera ordered/allowed him to be killed.

I am guessing that this is pre-buy. I also think you are trying for an Assault theme. Unfortunately, I think the way you've set up your list is a little off.

Razorbacks shoot, and intuitively you've tried to give yourself some shooting support. This isn't a bad idea, but Razorbacks are the wrong tool for it. The army you have posted would be very good if your squads were all las/plas - i.e. you are not really making a list that's thought out to be assaulty, but trying to force a shooty build into an assaulty role.

The orthodox setup for assaulty Marines is typically eight or ten men per squad, plus Sarge with the old fist. You want the extra bodies to absorb the wounds and shelter Sarge, who cannot be picked out in close combat, from enemy attacks. Because of the untargettability of Sergeants, there is no reason to purchase combat shields at all. While I'm not ethnic Irish myself - a wee lil migration boot 1600 years ago sorta changed that part of my heritage - I don't see shields as particularly Irish, and unless you really feel otherwise, you should get rid of them. Marines have shoulder pads for their heraldry.

Your Warlord's protection is in excess of the damage he can inflict. In a list all ready short on bodies, that is a bucketload to spend on a commander.

You could switch the focus of your army to a template sort of like this:

cheap chaplain with jump pack
x units of five marines each with a lascannon
x Rhinos with extra armour and smoke (if you play on a LOT of city or heavy jungle boards, the dozer blade might be worth it)
x units of eight assault marines with two flamers and a power fist (you could get away with leaving one at seven as the chaplains bodyguard)
y squadrons of one Land Speeder Tornado

The foot marines deploy away from their APCs in decent firing positions. Their whole goal is to ping at enemy tanks.
The speeders set up to buzz vulnerable enemy infantry, light vehicles, and especially other skimmers.
The Rhinos provide protection for the Assault marines by the simple mechanism of blocking LOS. They are your expendable units.
The assault marines are fast enough to reach the enemy more or less intact, especially with Rhinos janking with their LOS.
If you think you might need more ranged support, the chaplain could be made into a Librarian with FOTA.

The two weaknesses of this template are:
1) rolling a 5 or 6 for mission level destroys the synergy between your troops and puts you in the position of hanging around in the gunsights of enemy infantry while you gather enough strength to destroy them
2) other assaulty armies will significantly reduce the value of your Rhino screens as they will spend those points on more fighters instead.

A second, and perhaps fluffier and stronger idea, would be to use Take the Fight to Them with See but Don't Be Seen. This gives you 18 point scouts with 3+ saves. You will be hurt by rolling a 1 or 2 for mission level in this case, which will waste 3 points of each infiltrating figure in your army, but simultaneously gain a serious advantage on a 5 or 6 against an army with stronger support. You will also probably want to give your shooting squads infiltrate as well so you can see your opponent's deployment in full prior to placing your men. A single five-man unit without infiltrate coud be useful as "counter-pushback" - to be placed on the board strictly to gain immediate control of the center, and th'luck'o the Irish to them surviving the inevitable withering hail of fire. If they get assaulted, it is jokes however as your opponent will be smelling the Guinness on your real squads' breath one turn sooner than otherwise, though do not count on the same opponent to make this error twice.

Scouts seem fairly fluffy in general, if you go to more of an "Easter Rising" sort of bend to the army, as the Irish were largely light irregular infantry. Another idea for a fluffy-looking unit would be a cheap character with a simple command squad, represented by a Fantasy chariot with marine crew - maybe silly, but it would look excellent and war chariots are about as Celtic as it gets. Perhaps the horses harnesses are fitted with flamers or melta guns, or a power field is covering the ahistoric but inevitable wheel scythes. Maybe buy them FC to simulate the impact of the chariot into the enemy - S5 I5 and rerolls to hit from chappy (who'd be throwing 5-6 dice at I6 on the assault) makes for a respectable bit of killing power. Just assemble it without gluing all the models together so that you can remove Marines and horses as casualties, and you have a great centerpiece for the army. You might have to pick your chariot model carefully as many are designed for smalled figures than marines, or find some way of extending the cab to accomodate extra models. Spears rather than the usual swords as close combat weapons would also add a touch of character IMHO, just because I keep thinking of that bit in Braveheart where all the Irish are spearmen and have a memory of an Irish Nationalist superhero whose main talent was killing people with a spear. (Freelancer) Truth be told, I think the Ireland theme would be better pulled off by IG or Eldar, respectively for Civil War/pre-Viking kingdoms themes, but you can definitely do more than paint shamrocks or add the occasional flask to your soldiers to make them seem more Irish.

(if you're feeling very lazy, however, just play a mauleed style pod list with unpainted beer bottles as pods. not really assaulty, but it will win - given you keep trying to learn it - and might get you a laugh from the opponent as well)

Wow, thanks for all the advice. [though I can't tell if wight_widow is being serious or not... near the end anyway. :-)] To tell the truth I was a bit nervous about doing it for some reason.

Problem being I've been playing Marines since I was 13 [I'm now 22 cos it's past midnight] in second edition and I have a billion guys [172 to be exact] and I've been trying to force them into something with the mini's I have.

Though you guys seem to be right, man power issues. It's been performing well but having external suggestions is always good. I was thinking about changing the list and losing the bikes. I have an excess of close combat marines. [I can field two armies - shooty - assaulty] I'm going to tweek the list then repost it. If you guys would be so kind as to help me again when I do.

PS Yes, I/we play a lot of Jungle/urban Terrian - and dozerblades are a must.

How about this: Same Trait Advantages and Draw backs. Address the man power and anti-tank issues a bit. Fixes the illegal use of Iron Halo and Mantel that I overlooked. [Thanks for that.]

H.Q:

[-] Warlord + Artificer Armour + Frag + M. Bomb + Iron Halo + P. Weapon + P. Pistol 172

TROOPS:

[-] 09 Warriors [FC and TTFTT] Frag + veteran attack honours + P.Fist + Meltagun 211
[+] Wagon [Rhino] + D. Blade + X. Armour + S.Bolter + Smoke 73
[-] 09 Warriors [FC and TTFTT] Frag + veteran attack honours + P.Fist + Meltagun 211
[+] Wagon [Rhino] + D. Blade + X. Armour + S.Bolter + Smoke 73

FAST ATTACK:

[-] 5 Jump warriors [Furious Charge] + Veteran attack Honours + P.Fist + 2 P. Pistols 170
[-] 5 Jump warriors [Furious Charge] + Veteran attack Honours + P.Fist + 2 P. Pistols 170

HEAVY SUPPORT:

[-] Predator D. + H. Bolters + X. Armour + Smoke 118
[-] 6 Heavy Warriors + 2 Lascannons + 2 Rocket Launchers 200
[+] Razorback + L. Cannon + D. Blade + X. Armour + Smoke 103

Army Total Pts: 1501
Total Troops: 35 + 3 Transports and 1 Tank

[I have enough painted up to do this too]

Drop the dozer blades. They're 30 points that can be used much better elsewhere (i.e., put a tenth marine in each of your troops.

CK

I guess that could work, but bear in mind you'll want to disembark your Rhino squads from the rear to avoid being rapid fired as they close in. So you'd be moving 12", smoke, pass turn, move 12", turn flank to NME to block more LOS, disembark from opposite flank, pass turn, move through or around the wreck and then assault for a third turn charge - only a turn later as opposed to using Assault Marines (move 12 behind Rhino, move 12 and assault) and with much less strain on your supply of models. The one positive of your current set-up over the Assault Marine set up is that, though it take a turn longer, against more numerous and cowardly enemies - Tau and IG infantry in particular - your Rhinos will be able to tank shock a second unit at the same time as your infantry charge.

I would make the lascannon in the Devastator Squad missile launchers as theya re far cheaper. Most people also like a roughly 1:1 ratio of bolters to support weapons in their Devastators, but depending on your results you may want to leave them at 1:2. The smoke on the Razorback and Predator is only 6 points, but don't be married to it. If you can, I would try to either get an extra two Assault Marines so that four casualties are needed per squad as opposed to three to bring them below half-strength. I still think you should reduce the ammount of protection your Warlord carries - I still feel it's somewhat overkill compared to the ammount of damage he can kick out. It's not like he doesn't have I5 - better off with more boys and more guns, IMHO, than trying to make supermen into Gods. (Like the moral for IG trying to make men into supermen - you're a notch up on the evolutionary scale, but you're not C'tan)

Weaker suggestions include playing around with power swords and melta bombs on the assault squad sergeants, so they derive greater benefit from FC - from S8 I1 to S9 I1 is not such a big deal except against targets with an AV, but from S4 I4 to S5 I5 with a power weapon is quite impressive.

Hmmm... some good suggestions - thanks everybody.

Hmmm... some good suggestions - thanks everybody.