Catachan Sergeants and Special/Heavy Weapons

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**Stu-Rat**

I've got a question concerning Catachan Veteran Sergeants and Special Weapons/Heavy Weapons.

It states (several times, in various unit descriptions) in the Catachan PDF that any model in the unit may take a Special or Heavy Weapon.

For example, under the Elites: Catachan Devils section:

"Up to three models may have one of the following weapons each: ..."

Note the use of the word 'model' and not, as it is in the IG Codex, 'Guardsman'.

Therefore, could the Sergeant be armed with a Plasmagun, for example? Or be one half of a Heavy Bolter team?

To me, it looks like RAW supports this. Any thoughts?

**bigchris1313**

That sounds fine. But why would you do it? Putting all your eggs in one basket, as it were, is never* a good idea.

*Never meaning almost always never-ever but sometimes just maybe ok.

**yakface**

Stu-Rat:

The PDF is missing the page found in every codex that explains how to use the army list. On that page (in every other codex) it tells you how to purchase units from the army list, that weapons/wargear cannot be taken that are not modeled on the model, and that unit options are for regular models in the unit and not for characters.

So I guess you can play that GW intentionally ignored putting those rules into the Catachan PDF, but do you honestly think so? Is it really worth it to potentially anger your opponents?

Whatever the case, you are correct. The RAW allow Catachan unit options to be given to the Sergeant.

**Stu-Rat**

Posted By bigchris1313 on 09/28/2006 2:58 PM
That sounds fine. But why would you do it? Putting all your eggs in one basket, as it were, is never* a good idea.

*Never meaning almost always never-ever but sometimes just maybe ok.

Just to get the extra body. If the Sergeant/Officer has one of the Special Weapons, you can keep the weapon and the higher Ld for longer at no extra cost.

For example, a 6-man with 2 regular joes, 3 plasmaguns, and a sergeant, takes three casualties. You lose the two regular guys but then have to either lose the sergeant (and lower your leadership with all the inherent risks) or one of the plasmaguns.

However, when a 6-man with 3 regular joes, 2 plasmaguns, and a sergeant with a plasmagun, takes three casualties you can just lose the three regular guys. You keep your firepower and your leadership.

That's why.

**Stu-Rat**

Posted By yakface on 09/28/2006 5:45 PM

Stu-Rat:

The PDF is missing the page found in every codex that explains how to use the army list. On that page (in every other codex) it tells you how to purchase units from the army list, that weapons/wargear cannot be taken that are not modeled on the model, and that unit options are for regular models in the unit and not for characters.

So I guess you can play that GW intentionally ignored putting those rules into the Catachan PDF, but do you honestly think so? Is it really worth it to potentially anger your opponents?

Whatever the case, you are correct. The RAW allow Catachan unit options to be given to the Sergeant.

Yes, but Yakface, nothing in that page says anything about who can and who cannot take Special/Heavy Weapons. That's always in the unit entries.

In the IG Codex, for example, they state quite clearly in the Infantry Squad unit entry that only Guardsmen can take S/HW. Thus Sergeants cannot.

The Catachan Codex says something quite different, however.

And aside from RAW, is there also an intention argument? After all, Catachan Sergeants are quite different from regular IG Sergeants (or most armies' Sergeants). They can take any Wargear, even Officers Only items, for example.

The closest thing to this is each Last Chancer (once upgraded to a Specialist). Who can, coincidentally, take S/HW.

I'm not trying to argue with you, and I understand your point about the potential to piss opponents off (although why anyone would get upset over such a small change is beyond me), but I am saying that your argument's logic is flawed.

**Ghaz**

Posted by Stu-Rat on 09/29/2006 1:40 PM
Yes, but Yakface, nothing in that page says anything about who can and who cannot take Special/Heavy Weapons. That's always in the unit entries.
In the IG Codex, for example, they state quite clearly in the Infantry Squad unit entry that only Guardsmen can take S/HW. Thus Sergeants cannot

From page 37 of Codex Imperial Guard:

If a squad is allowed to have models with upgrades, then these must be given to ordinary team members, not the character.

That's why the character can not take the upgrade, not because there's a difference between a 'guardsmen' and a 'sergeant'

**skyth**

Does the new Catachan codex reference the IG codex?

**yakface**

Posted By skyth on 09/29/2006 4:58 PM
Does the new Catachan codex reference the IG codex?

Briefly, but not regarding this issue.

@Stu-Rat: See what Ghaz posted. That's the line in every codex that stops upgrade characters in units from taking unit options.

**feuer_faust**

EH, if your codex lets any model take the weapon, who am I to argue?

But, isn't the Catachan codex outdated by the "new" IG codex? I remember reading before the doctrines to take Catachans in the IG codex. Or did I miss a codex somewhere? o_O

**Banesword**

The Catachan Codex still exists for a "pure" jungle fighters army. No tanks, booby traps and ambushing squads.

**Stu-Rat**

Posted By Ghaz on 09/29/2006 7:51 AM

Posted by Stu-Rat on 09/29/2006 1:40 PM
Yes, but Yakface, nothing in that page says anything about who can and who cannot take Special/Heavy Weapons. That's always in the unit entries.
In the IG Codex, for example, they state quite clearly in the Infantry Squad unit entry that only Guardsmen can take S/HW. Thus Sergeants cannot

From page 37 of Codex Imperial Guard:

If a squad is allowed to have models with upgrades, then these must be given to ordinary team members, not the character.

That's why the character can not take the upgrade, not because there's a difference between a 'guardsmen' and a 'sergeant'

Sorry, I still don't see the relevance. 'Character' is referring to Independent Characters surely? They are, after all, the only 'characters' referenced in the rulebook, correct?

Besides, if the page is missing, this remains irrelevant.

**blue loki**

Posted By Stu-Rat on 10/02/2006 5:25 AM
Sorry, I still don't see the relevance. 'Character' is referring to Independent Characters surely? They are, after all, the only 'characters' referenced in the rulebook, correct?

Completely incorrect. Reread the BGB section about characters. You will see that the term applies to both squad upgrades and ICs (although 99% of the character section deals only with ICs).

**yakface**

Posted By Stu-Rat on 10/02/2006 5:25 AM

Sorry, I still don't see the relevance. 'Character' is referring to Independent Characters surely? They are, after all, the only 'characters' referenced in the rulebook, correct?

Besides, if the page is missing, this remains irrelevant.

Blue Loki has pointed out how you are incorrect about your character assumption.

As for relevance, what are you expecting? I've already said that per the RAW you're correct. I'm guessing you already had an inkling of that before you even posted the original query.

In this case we're dealing with a PDF update of an old codex. They altered just enough of the text to make it relevant with the current IG codex (since the original Catachan codex reference the old 3rd edition codex).

You're obviously not using a Catachan army as a power list to win tournaments, so why would you overlook a fairly obvious editing error to gain a small advantage? I just don't get it.

If you want to go ahead, then feel free. The RAW support you. I was just letting you know that the PDF version of the codex looks to have an obvious formatting error that you may want to consider if you care to play ethically.