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The Rule Book is pretty clear that the mission objective for Take and Hold requires the ENTIRE unit be within 12" of the table center for it to count as taking the objective.  What constitutes the entire unit though?

A friend and I where playing a game the other day and I had a 5 man Terminator squad pushing for the objective.  At the end of the game 4 models where entirely within the 12 inches.  The 5th had 2/3rds of his base within 12 inches of the center.  He denied me the Victory Points for them.

I still won the game, so I wasn't to argumentative, but it seemed a bit shady to me.  So whats everyones call on that?

my call would be to give y our mate a slap for being such a "female dog".. however in most games I have played its usually allowed as most of the squads in. And besides if the last termies base was even touching the 12" border then he is in,, his whole base does not need to be in. I am sure some of the rules lawyers here will differ.

If part of the unit isn't within 12", then the entire unit isn't within 12". The ruling was correct.

Not to be a "female dog" but I agree with skyth.

I once had a game that had a similar ending, except it was actually a matter of win or tie.  I posted the question here, and the consesus that was reached was this:  because there are seperate uses of "within" and "entirely within", then "entirely within" means that every last micron of every last base must be within the required range. Wether or not you actually measure that accurately I will leave to you and your gaming group.

I have to go with the idea that you got screwed. After all coherency means that you have to have parts of your bases WITHIN 2" of another member of the squad. Deploying from transports means you have to have your models WITHIN 2" of the access point. I see no reason why the whole base of the model must be inside the 12" for the WITHIN clause to go into effect.

You have to be completely within because it requires the unit be 'entirely within'. If you are sticking out a little bit, you are within, but are not entirely within. There is a difference.

I agree with Skyth.

"Within" and "entirely within" are two completely different concepts. If a unit has to be "entirely within" a specified distance then every last millimeter of the unit needs to be within the distance to qualify.

"You have to be completely within because it requires the unit be 'entirely within'. "

No it doesn't.

The actual objective entry:
"The player with the most scoring units within 12" of the table centre point at the end of the game wins"

So, how do you determine whether a model is within 12" of something?

As per page 6 of the rulebook, you measure from the closest edge of the model's base.

The entire model doesn't need to be within 12". Just the edge of the base... because that's the reference point for measurement.

Actual mission objective- (Page 86 BGB)

'you score Victory Points equal to the points value of each of your scoring units entirely within 12" of the center point'

He did say it was a victory point game

Changes nothing.

How do you tell if the unit is entirely within 12"? You check each model in the unit.

If each model is within 12", the unit is entirely within 12".

And to determine whether each model is within 12", as per page 6 of the rulebook, you measure from the closest edge of the base.

Posted By insaniak on 10/23/2006 8:09 PM
Changes nothing.

How do you tell if the unit is entirely within 12"? You check each model in the unit.

If each model is within 12", the unit is entirely within 12".

And to determine whether each model is within 12", as per page 6 of the rulebook, you measure from the closest edge of the base.

I personally disagree with this sentiment. Some of the mission objectives in the rulebook just specify "within" while others specify that the unit must be "entirely within".

Whether or not this difference was intentional (I think it was) I'm not going to get into because its essentially irrelevant.

It is easier to understand why your concept doesn't work if you apply it to a single vehicle model (which is, of course, a unit).

If the very front of the vehicle model is 11" from the center of the table at the end of the game is the unit entirely within 12" of the center point of the table? Is it untrue to say that most of the vehicle/unit is not within 12" of the center point?

While I fully understand your argument as it applies to a normal unit, can it still not be said that part of the unit (parts of the model) are not entirely within 12" of the center point if parts of a model are indeed more than 12" from the center point?

There can be no argument that the unit is within 12" of the center point if all of its models are within 12" (although only one of them would truly need be in order to qualify), but that still doesn't mean the unit is "entirely within" 12 inches of the center point.

So while you can say that all models in the unit are within 12" of the cener point and you can say that the unit is clearly within 12" of the center point, you cannot say that the unit is entirely within 12 inches of the center point as long as any part of the unit is not entirely within 12".

 

I think it really just comes down to a personal interpretation of 'entirely within'

A unit with only one model within 12" would be a unit 'within 12" of the objective', while a unit with ALL models within 12" is a unit 'entirely within 12" of the objective'.

A vehicle (or any other unit of one) -as a unit- is entirely within 12" if it is within 12". All models in the unit are within 12", so the UNIT is entirely within 12".

My problem with the whole model having to be within 12" is that nowhere in the rulebook does it offer any way to measure this. We are given only one way to measure distance as it relates to models, and that is from the closest edge of the base.

I'll speak to what the OP wanted. Your friend is being shady. Simple as that. In that mission if it states entirely within (like Recon missions also state) then the entire model/squad must be in, if its not then it isn't contesting the objective. Your friend, with a 3/4 in terminator counts as NOT being entirely within the objective.

Posted By ATI on 10/23/2006 9:48 PM
I'll speak to what the OP wanted. Your friend is being shady. Simple as that. In that mission if it states entirely within (like Recon missions also state) then the entire model/squad must be in, if its not then it isn't contesting the objective. Your friend, with a 3/4 in terminator counts as NOT being entirely within the objective.

Actually, I was MY terminators that the question was posted on.

Well Shady mr. Djones Sorry, I wrote that one at 1am so its a little abrupt. I hope the conversation between Insaniak and Yakface have helped.