Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is my first try at an Armored Company List, so I am probably wasting points all over the place. This list is for a Chaos Armored Company and uses the AC rules availible on the GW website. This is for the Adepticon Gladiator. Thank you for your comments.

2000 Pts - Armoured Company Roster

0 Command Tank @ 277 Pts
   Leman Russ Battle Tank
   1 Leman Russ Battle Tank @ [277] Pts
      Extra Armour; Improved Comms; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Rough Terrain Modification; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter
      1 Extra Armour
      1 Improved Comms
      1 Pintle Heavy Stubber
      1 Rough Terrain Modification

1 Inquisitor Lord [OM] @ 88 Pts
   Bolt Pistol (x1); Daemonhammer
   1 Daemonhammer [OM]
   1 Mystic [OM]
      Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon
   1 Mystic [OM]
      Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon

2 Daemonhosts [OM] @ 170 Pts

0 Tank Ace @ 245 Pts
   Leman Russ Battle Tank
   1 Leman Russ Battle Tank @ [245] Pts
      Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Rough Terrain Modification; Smoke Launchers; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter
      1 Extra Armour
      1 Pintle Heavy Stubber
      1 Rough Terrain Modification @ [5] Pts
      1 Smoke Launchers

0 Tank Unit @ 177 Pts
   Leman Russ Battle Tank
   1 Leman Russ Battle Tank @ [177] Pts
      Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Rough Terrain Modification; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter
      1 Extra Armour
      1 Pintle Heavy Stubber
      1 Rough Terrain Modification

0 Tank Unit [OM] @ 177 Pts
   Leman Russ Battle Tank
   1 Leman Russ Battle Tank [OM]
      Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Rough Terrain Modification; Battle Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter; Sponson Heavy Bolter
      1 Extra Armour [OM]
      1 Pintle Heavy Stubber [OM]
      1 Rough Terrain Modification [OM]

0 Reconnaissance Section @ 132 Pts
   Hellhound
   1 Hellhound @ [132] Pts
      Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Inferno Cannon; Hull Mounted Heavy Bolter
      1 Extra Armour
      1 Pintle Heavy Stubber

1 Griffon Mortar Carrier @ 80 Pts
   Extra Armour; Heavy Bolter; Griffon Mortar
   1 Extra Armour
   1 Specialist Ammunition
      1 High Explosive Shell
      1 Siege Shell
      1 Illumination Shell
      1 Infernus Shell
      1 Smoke Shell

1 Baneblade @ 654 Pts
   Extra Armour; Pintle Heavy Stubber; Smoke Launchers; Mega Battle Cannon; Coaxial Autocannon; Demolisher Cannon; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter (x3); Autocannon (x2)
   1 Extra Armour
   1 Pintle Heavy Stubber
   1 Smoke Launchers
   1 Specialist Ammunition
      1 High Explosive Shell
      1 Anti-tank Shell
      1 Siege Shell
      1 Illumination Shell
      1 Infernus Shell
      1 Smoke Shell

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Created with Army Builder
Copyright (c) 1997-2006 Lone Wolf Development, Inc. All rights reserved.

Mahu what are your tank doctrines?
- Ace gunner is practically required and alway annoys my opponents no end.
- Have you given thought to vanquishers or executioners (the twin linked autocannon variant) for your army commander and tank ace to take advantage of the BS4?

The Executioner is a fabulous tank to take for any of the BS 4 AC guys. There's nothing wrong with 14 dice that can all move and fire. Never mind that it's also the cheapest and likely most cost effective Leman available, IMHO.

This looks like a decent AC and I'd applaud anyone who's catually bringing a super-heavy to the big event. Like with any Vehicle heavy list there are a couple of decent AT builds that will give you fits. That said, there aren't very many problems that can't be solved by a boatload of pie plates. The one realk weakness here is your relative lack of AP 2, so things like Oblits and Termies might carve you pretty bad. You may want to consider either some Demolisher action, or perhaps just a smattering of hull las cannons. I know that the hull Las isn't as effective on the whole, but you may need a couple for those inevitable IW games.

Cheers

exterminators have the t.l autocannon, executioners are the nifty forgeworld tanks that have a super plasma cannon.

I can't comment on the IG stuff, but I do play daemonhunters so I'll give some input on the puny Inquisitor.
He's a T3 independant character with a initiative 1 weapon... exactly how long do you think he'll survive? Ditch the hammer and if you're dead-set on assaulting with him, get him a powerweapon and a familiar, making him I5.

Or give him a psycannon, (and maybe change mystics for a sage or two?). He can snipe turbo-boosting bikes or daemons (other then Bloodletters).

OR (better yet!) ditch the weapons alltogether and give him a psychic hood and emperors tarot, making him a really usefull little chap, hiding him somewhere where he still can claim a quarter or something.

I don't know what all those nifty tanks count as, but I guess you know that the Lord as a HQ and the host's are a separate Elite choice (ie they can't be a part of the retinue)?

One last thing, aren't the Inquisitor lords retinue 3-12, so you need one more?

Hope it helps!

You are right the =][= is illegal, I will add a Familiar, switch to a Power Weapon, and take the Emporer's Tarot, I really don't need the hood because besides the =][=, there are few powers that scar an all tank army. The mystics are key though, because if I face off against a drop pod heavy, deepstrike, or deamonbomd army sudenly I have a Baneblade pounding each unit that shows up!

Thanks for the advice, I will try and get an Exterminator in there.

 

I'm pretty baffled by this army list, especially considering that we're talking about the Gladiator. I've never played with an AC or against an AC but I've played a whole lot of Guard in my day and you've got me scratching my head as to the choices you've made.

Essentially I see a whole tremendous amount of points waste poured into every unit.

1) Your two BS4 tanks you've taken Ordnance tanks (which don't use the BS)? That just makes no sense. Why wouldn't you take either an Exterminator or Vanquisher as these two choices?

 

2) What's with all the extra kit on your tanks? Extra armor? Rough Terrain Modification? Heavy Stubbers? Those three pieces of wargear add 22 points to each vehicle. You remove them from each of your vehicles and you have enough points for another tank.

 

3) What in the heck are you going to use to kill enemy vehicles? Ordnance? I hate to tell you this, but after years of experience, Battlecannons are marginal at best at taking out enemy vehicles. You are much better off using the Pie plate to target infantry whenever possible. But you've taken all HB sponsons along with all of your Battlecannons (along with a Hellhound and a Griffon). . .all of these tanks/weapons are designed to kill infantry. If you run up against a vehicle heavy army you're going to be absolutely screwed.

The "Ace Gunners" skill could help to keep your Ordnance on target (which makes it much more effective against vehicles). This can also slightly help if you give any of your Russes a Hull Lascannon (and no sponson weapons) instead of all the bolters (since you can re-roll a missed '1' to hit). Alternatively, the "Anti-Tank Rounds" doctrine could also be used to make your Russes slightly more effective against vehicles (although the Ace Gunners doctrine seems like a better buy).

You need something. A BS4 Vanquisher in your army would sure help, as would either of those doctrines above.

 

4) Daemonhosts? Daemonhosts for 170 points? That's another tank! Daemonhunters are terrible, why would you not get more armor in your army? There are so many more options (I'll discuss those next) you haven't taken that you need I can't believe you'd consider taking Daemonhosts.

 

5) I didn't play in the Gladiator last year but I'm assuming like all Adepticon tournaments it heavily features mission objectives. If so, your fairly slow army is going to have a hard time claiming objectives or table quarters.

I would strongly suggest you look into Salamander Scout vehicles. Their ability to move 24" is unique among the army and would really allow them to shoot out in the final turn to capture objectives or table quarters. Plus, with all the vehicles in your army their weak armor and open-topped status probably won't matter so much as your opponents will be busy shooting at the Russes. I personally would take at least two if not three. I don't really see the point of a Hellhound in an AC. I love Hellhounds normally but all of your vehicles are pretty much designed to kill infantry. Obviously the Hellhounds ability to ignore terrain is useful, but I don't think its essential with everything else you have.

I also think at least one indirect Basilisk would really prevent your opponents from hiding behind terrain to capture quarters at the end of the game. The Griffon is nice for the Infernus shell and for units that get under the Basilisk's 36" umbrella, but in terms of indirect stopping power I think you'd really want to have the flexibility a Basilisk provides.

 

6) where are your AP2 wepaons? What are you going to do against any 2+ save units that come into your backfield? Obviously the Baneblade is a great deterent but why not supplement it with a Demolisher?

 

So in conclusion I would personally suggest that you get rid of the Daemonhosts, the Hellhound and all the extraneous gear on the vehicles.

Then I'd take some Salamander Scouts, a Basilisk and a Demolisher.

I would make my BS4 tanks into one Exterminator (Hull lascannon and x2 Plasma cannons to get some serious AP2 firepower) and one Vanquisher and I'd take the "Ace Gunners" doctrine to help make my tanks more accurate and give them a bit of a shot against vehicles.

Finally, I'd give one or two Russes a hull Lascannon instead of the x3 Heavy Bolters.

 

Good luck!

 

 

 

I disagree on the hellhound yakface. I've found a hellhound to be almost required to deal with telltale minis that would otherwise run riot through my tanks (usually the one or two surviving marines in a squad) or another squad coming up. I've found them to be better than ST's for counterassault requirements.

But otherwise in agreement. My AC generally has two vanquishers with the remainder of tanks benefitting from ace gunners. The Vanqs take out heavies which will be pinioning after the superheavy, and the ace gunners allow you to zero in with the remaining direct fire ordnance.

You are right Yakface, however I don't think I will change the Griffon/Baneblade heavy support section. The Baneblade is the whoel reason I am building this list and the Griffon is too good to pass up (especially in objective missions, when you can force a unit off). However I will make the other changes you are subjesting.

I have absolutely no experience playing Gaurd and most definately no experience playing an Armored Company, so I am not sure how to equip tanks. The Deamonhosts where mainly a fluff consideration, considering this will be a suitibly converted Chaos Armored Company. I might swith over to the Armored Battle Group list that a person came in second with at our local Gladiator tournament.

Thanks for the advise, I will post another list soon.

Mahu,

1) Definitely compare the two lists (I am assuming the IA list can be taken). One list may demonstrate clear strengths over the other.
2) If the demon vessels are for fluffiness you might seriously consider if they have a purpose. They might be reasonable anti-assault or to tie up the errant termie operation (I am not that familiar with their details), but may have a difficulty in keeping up with the rest of the formation (or inversely, being sent out alone).
3) Another item to consider-will this be City fight or do you have high expectations for terrain? Factor these accordingly (armored groups can have problems in a Stalingrad like environment for obvious reasons and you may modify your list accordingly). Having said that I often appreciated a decent amount of terrain. It makes the opponent feel better but allows you to concentrate fire on choice targets.
4) I would look to fellow guard players and query them on strengths and weaknesses of guard in general. A good AC list will have a decent amount of low AP firepower, as well as vehicle killing power. As Yakface noted, direct fire Lemans are not that effective as antivehicle units unless modified with re-roll or some nice sponson additions. They are vulnerable to troops.

Well, I know the Armored Battle Group list had a lot of Vanquisers which have a great duel purpose of either anti tank or normal rounds. I think Army Builder has troubles with the AC and ABG lists, if anybody knows what that is about I would be appriciative.

AB does have files for the WD/GW site version of the armored company.

What is the difference between Armored Company and Armored Battle Group? I'm working on a small (<1000 points) AC list but have heard that ABG has good things to offer.

As for your list, Mahu, I would definitley consider giving one of your tank aces a Vanquisher. Having a BS4 antitank weapon (2D6+8) is good in anyone's book.

I know it's for fluff purposes, but I just don't see any point in taking the Demonhosts/Inquisitor Lord. Granted, I don't know anything about them, but at the same time, you're fielding an Armored Company list, where tanks rule the battlefield and infantry are swept asunder. I'd just as soon pick up another Chimera for counterassault, while doing what Yakface suggested and swap some of the HB trio's for a HM Lascannon.

I can't say much about the Salamander scouts Yakface suggests, or the Baneblade, as I have no experience with either. I will say that super-heavies are amazing, and if I could take them in my Black Templars army, I'd do so without a second's hesitation.

Otherwise, I like the list. Still not sure what Armored Battle Group is.

CK

Armored Battlegroup is an AI variant of mechanized forces. I have not seen the list, but it is my understanding that it has additional options that the WD variant does not - spotters or offboard artillery, more troop options etc. The WD option has quite a few doctrines which are nice, two or three fo which are quite useful. But the structure itself is more limited than the battlegroup (which can be partially helped with allies etc.).

The armored battle group also has different veteran skills. I particularly like the slick loader skill. It allows the tank to fire twice at a target if the tank doesn't move.

Capt K

Is the Armored Battlegroup Codex in a Chapter Approved/Imperial Armor I, II, or III? Or is it like the AC Codex, which has become a sort of errata? I really like the sound of them, and am now tempted to start them up after I finish a solid IG List.

CK

Ive played an AC before.  You will definately want the Commander and Ace to be in tanks that utilise the BS4.  A Vanquisher / Exterminator is almost mandatory, or even a Destroyer Tank Hunter - 72" S10 AP2 Heavy 1/blast.  Has the range to reach out and pop enemy tanks across the board and can double out a daemon prince, which *will* beat you almost singlehandedly either by attracting or absorbing your battle cannon fire.  Ace Gunners on the commander and ace are the best way to go doctrine-wise.  As far as the loadout on your tanks, Ive found simpler is better.  Most of the time you will be blazing away with ordnance andnot moving much.  Stubbers, RTM, all that extra wargear adds up to what Yakface pointed out; another tank.

Tactically, you want something more than just battlecannons.  You will need direct-fire weapons to finish off squads that your battlecannons have reduced to 1-3 men or squads of speeders which are not worth wasting another battlecannon shot on.  Exterminators work very well for this, as do hellhounds.  Id advise against using any infantry models such as Armored Fist or ST squads - being in melee gives your opponent a chance to hide from your fire and knowing guard youll lose the combat eventually anyway.  However, you might try taking sentinels - they are cheap and expendible, can maneuver for sideshots on other vehicles even with multilasers, and can advance / hold opposing quarters / pretend to take objectives while letting your line tanks keep up a steady stream of fire.

You'd think you have an overwhelming advantage of firepower, but be aware that you have to be careful as to where you apply it.  In the initial list you posted you only have 4 battlecannons, 1 hellhound, 1 griffon, and the baneblade - strong shooting to be sure but you can get overwhelmed.  Keep your tanks cheap and maximise the number of guns you bring to bear.  Oh, and drop the inquisitor and friends.  His 258 pts is more than an Ace Exterminator with 3HB, ea, and ace gunners which will be far more valuable to you.

Good luck!

Posted By Corpsman_of_Krieg on 10/24/2006 8:17 PM
Is the Armored Battlegroup Codex in a Chapter Approved/Imperial Armor I, II, or III? Or is it like the AC Codex, which has become a sort of errata? I really like the sound of them, and am now tempted to start them up after I finish a solid IG List.

CK

Armored Battlegroup is in Imperial Armor, I I think but I am not sure.

The AC list si the same as that was in the WD, but it also on GW's UK website.  Note it is not a Chapter Approved optional list but a "real" list.

 

http://uk.games-workshop.com/imperialguard/armouredcompanies/1/

Imperial Armor Vol 1

Pages 256-271.