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I'm sure everyone know in 4th Edition only infantry can't move and fire heavy weapons, (page 29).  Question - how useful is putting an Autarch on a jetbike and giving him a Reaper Launcher (so he can move, shoot, move)?  Not sure of the cost, but with 48" range, could be nice....

Or is a close-combat oriented Autarch (on jetbike with Laser Lance), going to be more effective for the cost?

Thoughts?

I am liking this codex more as there are a lot of fun combos.  Although I wish I could get back my Exarch with Bright Lance and Warp Spider Pack, along with Crack and Fast Shot from 2nd Edition....

Mez

It's expensive...Not sure how worthwhile it'd be.

He costs about the same as 10 marines.

With 2 shots per turn, assuming he shoots every turn (which he might be able to do with assault move to hide after shooting) and doesn't boost or assault that's 12 shots, 10 hits, 6.6 wounds against T4 targets. Half if they're in cover.

And he's a non-scoring unit who will be in reserve in escalation (and thus won't get those shots).

Unless the reaper launcher is attached the to the bike, which i don't believe it is, he cannot move-shoot-move, only shoot-move.

Posted By torgoch on 10/28/2006 2:47 PM
Unless the reaper launcher is attached the to the bike, which i don't believe it is, he cannot move-shoot-move, only shoot-move.

There is nothing in the current rulebook I can find to support that.

Read page 29.  "...riders on bikes (including jetbikes) and certain other models are capable of moving and firing freely with heavy weapons...".  Pretty cut and dry.  But if you need more proof, read page 54 which describes the rules for jetbikes.  "heavy weapons may be fired it the unit moves and the jetbike is still allowed to charge into close combat in the same turn".  And you already probably know about the special rule for Eldar jetbikes and the assault move.

I know in the old rules, it depended on whether the weapon was attached or not, but the current edition makes no difference.

Mez

Torgotch, we mashed this out in YMDC a week or two ago. It looks like he can. Read the the whole jetbike shooting rule again.

"Each jetbike in a unit may fire a weapon for each rider on the bike. If rapid fire weapons are mounted on a jetbike, then are allowed to fire once up to maximum range even if the bike moved. In addition, rapid fire weapons and heavy weapons may be fired if the unit moves and the jetbike is still allowed to charge into close combat in the same turn" (BGB 54).

That's the entire rule on jetbikes in the shooting phase. The bold emphasis is mine. "In addition." They never mention any weapons mounted outside of rapid-fire weapons. So the "in addition" means that anything about heavy weapons is completely outside of whatever has been said thus far. And then the rule says that they can fire on the move.

So it's legal. The only question is whether or not it's worth the pts.

And looking at it closely, it looks like it probably isn't worth the points....  Mez

Well, aside from other considerations, the fact that an autarch on a jetbike is toughness 3(4) means that an assault cannon rending hit or plasma gun can insta-kill him if he fails his invulnerable. Assault cannons and plasma guns are really common, relatively mobile weapons, so an autarch on a jetbike in general is pretty fragile.

He is still an Independent Character, so good luck shooting at him. Any good competitve Eldar build will have bikes to screen him.

I think he is worth it, give him a Reaper Launcher, a Laxer Lance, and a Mandiblaster and you have a character that is supporting the S. Cannon Fire from the bikes and can support them if they get cought in Close Combat. Not to mention the Strategy Rating of 4 he gives the army and the bonus to Reserve rolls.

To me he will make a good second HQ next to Eldrad or a Farseer.

That looks pretty ambiguous to me - it's hardly permissive and its not entirely clear the conditional if clause has ended. Glad I won't have to rely on it.

Posted By Mahu on 10/28/2006 6:08 PM
He is still an Independent Character, so good luck shooting at him. Any good competitve Eldar build will have bikes to screen him.

I think he is worth it, give him a Reaper Launcher, a Laxer Lance, and a Mandiblaster and you have a character that is supporting the S. Cannon Fire from the bikes and can support them if they get cought in Close Combat. Not to mention the Strategy Rating of 4 he gives the army and the bonus to Reserve rolls.

To me he will make a good second HQ next to Eldrad or a Farseer.

Umm, minor quibble.  If the jetbikes get caught in close combat he won't be using the laser lance.

In any case, only killing 6 marines (and that is if they are in the open and shooting every turn) really does not seem worth the points to me.
I would stick with close combat type stuff myself.

Just model the reaper launcher attached to the jetbike ^_~

That way your opponent can't complain about it

You could always take a Laxer Lance and a Power Weapon, no reaper though...

Sadly, Mahu, you cannot. Those are both single handed weapons, and the army list says that you can only give him one single handed weapon. So its either the lance or the power weapon.

You can take a Reaper Launcher and a laser lance, perfectly workable. The rules for shooting heavy weapons from Jetbikes are full of holes, so it's up to the player to use them as written or not. If the player decides to, a jetbike Autarch with launcher can be pretty much anywhere to harrass heavily armored foes, even if he doesn't get to shoot the weapon and move in the same turn - assuming he turbo-boosts.

You'd have to kill 2 marines every turn to get his points back and he does cost more than 10 marines.

It would be better to use him to his full potential in hand to hand, and cheaper. Mandiblasters and the shuripistol will give you +2 Attacks with the lance, and charging gets you 3. That's 6 attacks on the charge that count as S6 power weapon attacks. Attach him to Shining Spears with Hit and Run and have a ball.

I could be mistaken about one attack because of rules with the jetbike, and not being sure if it takes one hand to pilot it - so perhaps the Autarch cannot benefit from the +1 Attack for being double armed. I am unsure on this.

He's worth slightly less than 9 marines this way, though, and you can do more damage in this fashion than with shooting.

Is that something specific in his rules? Because that is a drastic change than every other HQ in this game. Man, I wish I had my codex (should be getting it soon).



The Jetbike rules are perfectly exceptable as they are written now, I don't see why there is still confusion about this. Besides, GW says to play to RAW unless told otherwise so JSJ Autarchs to the rescue!



Should be no problem, especially if he charges late in the game.



This is my personal plan with him, Spears are the best assault unit Eldar have (IMHO, Harlies are too fragile

)

There is no requirement (how stupid that is) for the character to actually drive his bike. It's the future, man!



The only downside to this tactic is the unit might be too good in combat. You don't want to hit a squad and be stuck out in the open the next turn. You want to hit big squads with them and hit and run behind cover to do it again. But that unit will probably be the asault core of my army, thought it will cost around 400 points for 4 models.

I first looked at this autarch but then realized he costs the same as Yriel exactly.

I see nothing that would prevent him from using the reaper launcher on the bike other than a FAQ that might later nerf it.....of course after  GW has sold lots of them.

As far as killing 2 marines per turn to make his points back: Very misleading this formula is.(lol) If you use him to finish off units that you already damaged you may often be nailing heavy weapon troopers or veteran sergeants etc which certianly cost more points. Also, you do not always have to kill your weight in points to be sucessful either. Often, my falcons will not earn their points but they are still worth their weight in gold if you ask me.

I don't really see the spears as all that great. Sure, they will hit hard but with only 2 attacks each against MEQ's they will average a single hit each not counting the exarch. This unit weighs in at 192 pts decently equipped and will likely kill 4-5 marines on the charge. You might get another or two from shooting before  the assault but that is often risky depending on your distance for the assault move.

Compare this to a 6 man harlequin unit delivered via falcon.  178 well equipped with a troupe leader, shadow seer and all members with kisses or a power weapon for the troop leader. Add 20 points for 2 fusion guns and you still are not that much more expensive than the spears while far less vulnerable from artillery etc. on the way to target.

25 attacks on the charge at I7 str 4 & rending. If you give the troupe leader a power weapon you still are getting a bunch of wounds.  This is without adding a supporting HQ to the unit....Imagine Yriel or someone lese riding wi a 5 man unit. (lol)

Lazarus.

 

Mahu - congrats on 666 posts! De Debil!

Yeah, it is specific to his rules. I have my codex with me, Here it is: No points though-
May be given one of the following:
hawk wings
warp jump generator
jetbike

may also be given one of the following:
banshee mask
mandiblasters

An Autarch may be given one single-handed weapon and one two-handed weapon:
Single handed weapon-
power weapon
scorp chainsword
laser lance (if on jetbike)

two-handed weapon-
avenger catapult
death spinner
fusion gun
lasblaster
reaper launcher

he comes with a shuripistol, and with no option to take 2 single handed weapons, you are stuck with the pistol if you want a hand-to-hand autarch. At least with the pistol you automatically have 4 attacks with your chosen single handed weapon.

I just know that they will change the rules about heavy weapons on bikes at some point, so I don't really want to model the thing only to change it. It is a fun idea though. However, marine bikes can fire heavy weapons on the move, so why not eldar, right?

I think that if you were to take 3 Spears (with Exarch with obligatory Hit and Run power) and the 'Spear Autarch' then they won't be able to wipe out a large marine squad in a turn. They can hit it twice and do a lot of damage and remove it from being a major threat.

I am planning on a big unit of Harlies, myself, because I really want to paint the models and I think they will be more fun and useful to me. Besides, I have a lot of Vypers and Hawks and Spiders, so they will likely be my Fast Choices. My dream of my plastic Autarch on bike conversion may never come to fruition...

That is odd about the Autarch then..



I doubt it. GW doesn't want to give Marine Players another reason to not buy Attack bikes. Besides if you read under shooting in the normal bikes it is worded EXACTLY the same. Both Jetbikes and regular bike may move shoot assault, with the Eldar getting their assault move regardless, I doubt it is high on the GW "fix" list (if they have one).

Harlies are still up in the air for me, they do have the harder hitting close combat but they are foot models and require the Falcon to get them around. They are extremely fragile, they need to hit hard on the charge to deny anybody from striking back . They are worst than a Deamonette when it comes to taking damage and cost more. The Spears might not hit as good but they have hit and run T4 and a 3+ save with the ability to turbo-boast. Now they have an awful small model count, but I think they will last longer in a game than the Harlies.

It's a toss up for me.

Spears are much, much more fragile than harlequins.

2d6X2 to shoot them means that nothing over 24" can ever hit them and very often guns further away than 14" will not get to shoot.

5+ rerollable invulnerable save, with the Farseer backing them up, still 5+ is respectable without it.

They also ignore terrain and can therefore hide behind/in it for better cover saves while bikes can't really take advantage of that as easily. And are much bigger and easier to see.

The only thing spears have is being faster. And I don't think that's enough to make them more durable when a squad of 10 harlequins will put out around 8 dead space marines on the charge before getting hit back. Oh, and shining spears get cremated by a powerfist while harlequins take it and like it.

Harlies are an elite slot which is their only real downside.

Actually, bikes can take advantage of cover quite nicely be simply staying on the other side of it and then just hopping over it for the assault.

Spears don't terribly need to worry about PF as long as they should be able to wipe out their kill zone.

10 Harlequins end up being at least as much as 6-8 spears.

I think overall the Harlequins are more effective, but they are likely slower.

Also, Spears can take down tanks in a pinch. Get behind them, unload with the lance shots, and if I am correct, you can still charge with them if the lance shots don't work.

Still, there is no getting around the fact that Harlies are mean and nasty.

Why not plan to take both?