Need help making a competative Mechanized Guard List

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**Doctor Thunder**

I've always thought that Mechanized Guard armies were just too cool looking on the tabletop, but having fought against many of them I know how uncompetative they can often be. It has been my dream for a while to come up with a list that can go toe to toe with other competative lists out there, and I'd like your thoughts on what I've come up with.

I've learned that Chimeras and Hellhounds are far more likely to survive if there is something heavier and scarier for the enemy to go after, and I can't think of anything scarier then a trio of Demolishers. I chose demolishers over the regular Russes for the improved side armor, and for the scarier gun. I want the Demolishers to advance alongside the Chimeras, not hang back. This will hopefully put my opponant in a bad spot, as he'll have to choose between hitting the demolishers and ignoring the chimeras, or hitting the chimeras and ignoring the demolishers. Either way, his flank is in for a hurting. All of the Demolishers and Chimeras are designed for a 6 inch a turn advance, so rough terrain modifications will allow them to go through bad spots without getting all bottlenecked in an attempt to avoid immobilization, a big problem I have seen in lists without rough terrain modifications. Extra Armor keeps them moving so they can stay together as a group. I put Heavy Stubbers on everything, because it's one of the best and cheapest upgrades for the Guard, and a personal favorite of mine. The Chimeras put out nine shots a turn as they advance, and the Demolishers can put out 12 once they lose their cannons or if their target is too dispersed for the template to be effective. That's a LOT of Dakka for tanks on the move.

I took Grenadiers so that I could avoid taking platoon command squads, and because their pair of special weapons is well suited to being in a transport. Hardened Veterens in Carapace Armor fulfill essentially the same role as the Grenadiers, but can carry a third special weapon.

Mechanized armies I have played against, ironically, seem to have a problem with enemy tanks, so I gave all the squads meltaguns instead of my preferred Plasma Guns. Close Order Drill was taken to bolster their HTH combat effectiveness slightly if they are charged, which was also the reason behind the power weapons, which I normally don't take.

Originally the army was designed with three identical veterans squads, but I've made a late change by dropping one vet squad and their transport and adding a pair of hellhounds, banking on the idea that hellhounds have a much higher lifespan when demolishers are around, and because hellhounds are just brilliant tanks to have around. It also gives the army, in theory, a more rounded weapons load.

So, basically the idea is to advance in mass on one flank 6 inches a turn, thinning out the enemy line until disembarking and finishing off the flank with a short-ranged volley, then re-mounting and hitting the other flank.

Imperial Guard 1999 Points
Model Count: 45 Vehicle Count: 10
Doctrines: Grenadiers, Veterans, Carapace Armor, Close Order Drill.

Command Squad:
Junior Officer with Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol, 2 Guardsman with Meltaguns, 2 Guardsmen with Flamers. All have Carapace Armor. (98 Points)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (107 Points)

Hardened Veterans Squad:
6 Veterans with Lasguns, 3 Veterans with Meltaguns, and Veteran Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon. All have Carapace Armor. (141 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (107 Points)

Hardened Veterans Squad:
6 Veterans with Lasguns, 3 Veterans with Meltaguns, and Veteran Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon. All have Carapace Armor. (141 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (107 Points)

Grenadiers Squad:
7 Grenadiers with Hellguns, 2 Grenadiers with Meltaguns, and Grenadier Veteran Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon (132 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (107 Points)

Grenadiers Squad:
7 Grenadiers with Hellguns, 2 Grenadiers with Meltaguns, and Grenadier Veteran Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon (132 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (107 Points)

Hellhound Tank:
1 Hellhound with Extra Armor, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (125 Points)

Hellhound Tank:
1 Hellhound with Extra Armor, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (125 Points)

Leman Russ Demolisher Siege Tank:
1 Leman Russ Demolisher with Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Rough-Terrain Modification, and Smoke Launchers. (190 Points)

Leman Russ Demolisher Siege Tank:
1 Leman Russ Demolisher with Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Rough-Terrain Modification, and Smoke Launchers. (190 Points)

Leman Russ Demolisher Siege Tank:
1 Leman Russ Demolisher with Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, Extra Armor, Rough-Terrain Modification, and Smoke Launchers. (190 Points)

Let me know what you think. I've tried to make a list that avoided many of the normal shortcomings of mechanized guard, and I really want to find a way to make it work. Above all, I want this army to be very aggressive, moving towards the enemy and anihilating it one flank at a time with medium and short ranged firepower, so try to focus any suggestions on making the army work better with that strategy in mind.
I am considering giving the army some heavy flamers for when they are up close, either on the Demolishers or on the chimeras. That might, in theory, eliminate the need for the hellhounds and allow me to swap back in the third veteran squad.

Thoughts?

**Centurian99**

Mech Guard is the most competitive Guard list out there...hands down. The main problem is they start looking very similar.

On your list...carapace armor is bad. Exchange one of your demolishers for a Basilisk. And the proper kit for a Demolisher is :hull lascannon, plasma cannon sponsons. You get plenty of heavy bolters from your Chimeras. And grenadiers...isn't as good as having a line platoon and an armored fist carrying lascannons.

**Doctor Thunder**

I appreciate the input.

I don't mind if my list turns out like others, I just want it to be mechanized and competative. Could you point me to an example of a "typical competative mechanized list?" I think seeing that would be very helpful for me.

**Squirreli**

In the vain hope some of this is helpful:

You could easily fit in two separate sentinels by losing some upgrades and/or squad-members. To me it seems you're carrying around too many lasgun/hellgun-equipped guys, I'd lose some. Besides, sentinels skulking behind your tanks/cover could give you some of that very much needed anti-tank capacity. Either that, or just 1 more chimera... I think 3 small veteran squads in 3 chimeras is better than 2 big fat boosted ones in 2 chimeras.

One basilisk would be helpful too... Since you're going to have a solid wall of steel, it'll be increasingly easy to find a good spot to hide it in. I would also drop the stubbers on the demolishers in favour of pretty much anything... Carapace should go too. You could quite easily fit in one more chimera by losing some.

Some of the meltas should be plasmaguns, methinks. All-melta approach, while novel, does seem a bit like grasping at straws; seems like you're over-compensating in a wrong place.

So, in a nutshell: all that equipment is fluffy, but for the price we could be looking at 2-3 more vehicles. Also, AT power needed.

**Squirreli**

Oh, and since you're not using mechanized doctrine, you have the option of using stuff like chameleoline-heavy weapons squads and such. On some battlefields those 6 lascannons with 3+ cover just might be worth it. Tried only once so far, and am no longer a regular IG player so someone else might know better

**CrazyB**

Also if your store/opponent allows it you should take a look at Imperial Armour books. The options of things like Vanquisher tanks and different turret options for Chimera might make the army more interesting.

**Centurian99**

Posted By Doctor Thunder on 10/29/2006 8:36 PM
I appreciate the input.

I don't mind if my list turns out like others, I just want it to be mechanized and competative. Could you point me to an example of a "typical competative mechanized list?" I think seeing that would be very helpful for me.

Here's a link to my AdeptiCon 2006 AAR, covering the Team Tourney. Our team was 4 Mechanized armies, and as you can see, we did quite well. That should get you some ideas to get started...

http://www.adepticon.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=138

**f.desrochers**

The mech Guard concept is certainly one of the trickier lists to accomplish. Other armies are more successful by virtue of their instrinsic benefits (MEq armies have their saves and better small arms, etc). For the Guard they need to compensate for this through other means. One of the unfortunate side-effects of the mech Guard concept is it is close to the much-maligned (and rightfully so) Armoured Company list - I was actually accused of this during a tournament where the AC list was not allowed.

The list I use has been competitive since the realease of Armageddon and still is through a new codex and 4th edition. Here it is:

Headquarters

- HSO w/ power weapon, bolt pistol, 2 x flamers, master-vox, Die Hard, Iron Discipline
Chimera w/ multi-laser, heavy bolter, dozer, smoke, search light
- AT Squad w/ 3 x missile launchers, sharpshooter
- Sentinel w/ multi-laser and advanced comms

Troops

Platoon
- JO w/ honorifica imperialis, power weapon, bolt pistol, 2 x flamers, vox, Die Hard, Iron Discipline
Chimera - as above
- Vet Sgt w/ lascannon, plasma gun, sharpshooter
Chimera - as above
- Vet Sgt w/ lascannon, plasma gun, sharpshooter
Chimera - as above

Armoured Fist Squad
- Vet Sgt w/ lascannon, plasma gun, sharpshooter
Chimera - as above

Fast Attack

- 3 x Sentinels w/ multi-lasers

Heavy Support

- Demolisher w/ lascannon, smoke, dozer
- Griffon w/ heavy bolter

The idea is to either keep the squads in their Chimeras or deploy into cover for the cover saves. The Chimera provides mobile heavy support or gets the squad to objectives, etc. The Demolisher is deployed for area denial while the sentinels all make moves for flanks and support charges. The two officer squads are counter-assault, with two flamers to whittle down target squads before the charge. The ace, surprisingly to most opponents, is the griffon - most Guard players know better.

;francois

**Doctor Thunder**

I appreciate very much the input that has been given. The sample lists were particularly helpful.
I gave the Demolishers a proper weapons loadout, dropped the hellhounds and a lot of the upgrades, which saved enough points to add another vet squad and another grenadier squad, as well a a trio of sentinels with autocannons, for medium tank hunting that can deep strike when necessary.

Thoughts?

Imperial Guard 2000 Points
Model Count: 44 Vehicle Count: 13
Doctrines: Veterans, Grenadiers, Drop Troops.

Command Squad:
Junior Officer with Laspistol and close combat weapon, 4 Guardsman with Meltaguns. (80 Points)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, and Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber. (97 Points)

Hardened Veterans Squad:
3 Veterans with Lasguns, 3 Veterans with Plasma Guns, and Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun. (92 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, and Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber. (97 Points)

Hardened Veterans Squad:
3 Veterans with Lasguns, 3 Veterans with Plasma Guns, and Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun. (92 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, and Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber. (97 Points)

Hardened Veterans Squad:
3 Veterans with Lasguns, 3 Veterans with Plasma Guns, and Veteran Sergeant with Boltgun. (92 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, and Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber. (97 Points)

Grenadiers Squad:
4 Grenadiers with Hellguns, 2 Grenadiers with Plasma Guns. (80 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, and Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber. (97 Points)

Grenadiers Squad:
4 Grenadiers with Hellguns, 2 Grenadiers with Plasma Guns. (80 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (102 Points)

Grenadiers Squad:
4 Grenadiers with Hellguns, 2 Grenadiers with Plasma Guns. (80 Points Total)
Chimera Transport with Turret-Mounted Multi-Laser, Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter, and Pintle-Mounted Heavy Stubber. (97 Points)

Sentinel with Autocannon (50 Points)

Sentinel with Autocannon (50 Points)

Sentinel with Autocannon (50 Points)

Leman Russ Demolisher Siege Tank:
1 Leman Russ Demolisher with Hull-Mounted Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (190 Points)

Leman Russ Demolisher Siege Tank:
1 Leman Russ Demolisher with Hull-Mounted Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (190 Points)

Leman Russ Demolisher Siege Tank:
1 Leman Russ Demolisher with Hull-Mounted Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Sponsons, and Rough-Terrain Modification. (190 Points)