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9 Dire Avengers with an Exarch with two shuriken catapults (137 points)

Squad=18 shots, 12 will hit and 6 will wound = 2 dead MEQs

Exarch=4 shots, 3.3 will hit and 1.66 will wound = .55 dead MEQs

Total=2.55

 

9 Dire Avengers with an Exarch with two shuriken catapults and Bladestorm (152 points)

Squad=27 shots, 18 will hit and 9 will wound = 3 dead MEQs

Exarch=5 shots, 4.16 will hit and 2.08 will wound = .69 dead MEQs

Total=3.69 dead MEQ

 

9 Dire Avengers with an Exarch with two shuriken catapults and Bladestorm+ Doom

Squad=27 shots, 18 will hit and 13.5 will wound = 4.5 dead MEQs

Exarch=5 shots, 4.16 will hit and 3.12 will wound = 1.04 dead MEQs

Total=5.54 dead MEQ

 

9 Dire Avengers with an Exarch with two shuriken catapults and Bladestorm+ Doom and Guide

Squad=27 shots, 22.5 will hit and 16.87 will wound = 5.62 dead MEQs

Exarch=5 shots, 4.86 will hit and 3.64 will wound = 1.21 dead MEQs

Total=6.83 dead MEQs

 

 

 

 

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You forgot:

10 Dire Avengers without Exarch

Squad=20 shots, 13.2 will hit and 6.6 will wound = 2.17 dead MEQs

Total = 2.17 dead MEQs

What I have discerned from this analysis, Eldar psykers are a real problem when fighting Eldar. Now the question is how to deal with them quickly and efficiently. Maybe an imperial assassin?

yeah you could do that the only problem is that the Culex assassin has no way of showing up in the right place fast enough, the eversor has to deal with Inv saves, adn the Callidus,w ell she could work, but then again you'll probab;y have to tear the farseer out of a falcon, and then nto get shot and assault next turn if the oppponent knows what is good for them.

A farseer can't use a psychic power while in a falcon. Since doom and guide (and fortune) are cast at the beginning of the turn, that means the seer has to get out and sit outside for at least a turn if he wants to use them.

Another thing to add to the 10 DA with no exarch is the cost....120pts.

Capt K

And also T3 with a 4+ save. Remember that.

10 space marines with no upgrades is 150 pts.
10 fire warriors is 100 pts.

Do you see a lot of units like either one of those?

Dire avengers, when compared to jetbikes, are absolutely horrible.

I expect a lot of callidus assassins will be assassinating seer councils arrr. c'tan phase blade 4tw.

So why not just use Dire Avengers with the cost efficient jetbikes? Does it
make sense?

152 points in bikes is what? 6 bikes with 2 shuricans.

That's only 2.96 meq kills if you're within 12". 1.45 at 24". How is that worse than the DA's.

T4 with a 3+ save, and a 6" movement in the assault phase, and the ability to turboboost, and the ability to have an S9 spear on your warlock, and the ability to have 5+ cover saves if you want them with conceal.

Jetbikes beat the crap out of dire avengers point for point and they can kill light vehicles.

10 avengers in a serpent w/ a few squad upgrades = about 300 - 320 pts
10 jetbikes w/ a few squad upgrades = 250 - 280

bikes are more mobile, TL bs3 is better than bs4, t4 3+ save (invuln when boosting), warlock powers str 9 weapon thrown in to bust tanks.
avengers have bladestorm and defend going for them basicaly, but are much more fragile.

I will still take a unit of DA im sure because it seems like fun to use, but jetbikes really are outshining them from what I can tell.

Er, I meant taking both so that you're not just sinking points.

I just want a reason to assemble those Avengers. I like them!

I think you need to see how firewarriors are used in the "Fish of Fury" tactics to see how Dire Avengers can be used to good effect.

Jetbikes while good, have problems as well.

I'm sold on the "Serpent of Slaughter"; it can pop a transport, then the DAs ravage the guys who drop out.

i happen to own a completely mechanized tau list and am well versed on the fish of fury tactic. I also know that wave serpents are considerably more expensive than devil fish. dire avengers in a serpent are decent don't get me wrong, but i think jetbikes are more cost effective. I will still take 1 unit in a WS for the anvil to my shining spears' hammer.

@ all you Jet bike lovers: Dire Avenger with Defend and shimmer shield are very diffucult to kill in hand to hand, Jet bikes not so much. You can almost get 2 DAs for the price of one jet bike, making the DAs better aginst Plasma and other high end troop killers. Jet bikes have a huge foot print on the table top, making them diffucult to hide, not so with DAs. I think small squads of Jet bike are much better then equal points of DAs, but the large tooled out DA squad is better then equal points of Jetbikes in one squad. I think DAs will have a better showing aginst horde armies, but that's not much of a factor as you only ever play aginst MEQs. Jetbikes are also more expensive to buy, what are they like $15 a model?

Damn Jetbikes are good, now I have to go buys some.

dire avengers w/ shimmershield and defend are good at absorbing hth damage, not so much against shooting. heavy bolters destroy them. 2 t3 4+ saves that move 6" or 1 t4 3+ save that move 12" and a free 6" assault move. anyone comparing unmounted avengers to jetbikes is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. they only have roles that resemble each other when the avengers are in a serpent.

multiple small squads of jetbikes are great, a minimum of a 66 point expenditure for a scoring unit!?

And only 2 kills required to make the minimum unit non-scoring...

Dude, minimum units is never a good idea for Eldar, unless they are dirt cheap and plan on hiding all game.  5 avengers is only 6 points cheaper than 3 bikes, and becomes non-scoring after 3 casualties, which is not much better. Everyone already knows that small units are not resilient and lack killing power without low AP weapons - and the difference between T3/Sv4+ and T4/Sv3+ is gigantic.

I am still on board with the bikes over avengers idea, since a "basic" unit is very versatile. It moves fast out of the box. It shoots decently out of the box due to twinlinking and cannon upgrades. It has a wide range of squad upgrade buffs in the form of a warlock. It is reasonably resilient if taken in a 6-10 man strong unit, but sucks spectacularly in HTH due to low attacks, low WS, and gigantic bases.

Let's look at avengers. These are fast(ish) stormtroopers with 18" shuriken catapults out of the box. There is no way to increase quality of the shots, but you may "borrow shots from the next turn" by spending additional points. You can buy increased durability against HTH. You can also mount them in a flying taxi to help them get into range - although this added cost removes the 2x wounds / squad advantage over bikes that the avengers enjoy.

So vs. bikes, you get around 2x more bodies and the abiity to borrow S4 shots from next turn at the expense of speed, durability, warlock upgrade and medium strength firepower.

The Main Issue I see with Jet bikes Vs. Avenger is that Every army you are going to face will be geared to kill MEQs. That means they kill Jet Bikes just as easily as Avengers at that point.

6" assault move works wonders w/ a small jetbike unit. the 6-10 man jetbike unit is a pain in the butt to hide, the 3 man on the otherhand is easy.

use them like crappy crisis suits. come out of cover, shoot, move back behind cover, end of game zip 24" to grab objectives / table quarters.

i would call 66 points dirt cheap for a mobile scoring unit. its also cheap enough that it is a good speed bump unit. lead people into charging it then charge them the following turn w/ harlequins, shining spears, what-have-you.

at least in the tournaments in Phoenix, there is always at least 1 table quarters or objective game, sometimes both. so units like this contesting table quarters are beautiful.

the main point is that jetbikes have a myriad of uses that you can continue to discover because of thier mobility, regardless of transport and relative toughness.

I will be sticking to my Dire Avengers, as I've gone right off my Jet Bikes- which by hte way have not seen the light of day since the erlease of 3rd ed.

Posted By lord_sutekh on 11/08/2006 10:36 AM
And only 2 kills required to make the minimum unit non-scoring...

And in COD you have to kill the entire three man unit to make it non scoring.

COD is a whole 'nother kettle of fish, entirely.

pretty sure in CoD, 30 harlequins == win.

30 harlies + lots of pathfinders the end. sniper strategem.