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Here is an Alaitoc Eldar list I hope to take on all comer with. Please give me your thoughts on it.

Maugen Ra   195

8 Harlequin w/ 8 Kisses and Shadow Seer   206

6 Pathfinders   144

6 Pathfinders   144

6 Pathfinders   144

6 Pathfinders   144

Vyper w/ 2x S-Cannons   60

8 Warp Spiders w/ Exarch, Power Blades, Spinneret, and Withdrawl   230

6 Swooping Hawks w/ Exarch, Sun Rifle, Intercept   158

2 Vibro Cannons   100

2 D-Cannons   100

4 Dark Reapers w/ Exarch, Missle Launcher, Fast Shot   217

One of things I like about this list is only three units do not have a chance to pin. I realize that many armies are immune and others rarely are pinnable, but I do like the theme.

Second, I think Vibro Cannons are under rated by most people. The chance for multiple hits on units and auto glances (all I real want on the shooty tanks) makes them a very realiable and being only 100 points it does not hurt if your opponent shoots at it.

Third, I am waffling on the Hawks. I like their chance to pin with the Sun Rifle and they are a secondary vehicle killer.

The Wraith

I thikn this list could use a "can't shoot me!" reaper launcher Autarch.

I also don't think the vibro/d-cannons are worth the points. Nor are the hawks. And shining spears would be better than warp spiders because spiders have to get too close to shoot things.

Not sure the harlequins would be that great in this list except to add counter-assault and an S6 gun. So I'd get them a death jester and let them stand there and shoot until the enemy gets close. 10 pts for another S6 gun can't hurt.

I really think falcons with firedragons are the best way to do this type of list.

The main reason for the Reapers as direct fire is to add another vehicle killer if I need it. This list is light enough on that, so I want the extra shots.

Spiders are not that bad since they have the assualt jump. A bit like my Tau with jumping in close, shooting and then moving out of range. Though these guys can fight back a little if they are caught. Also they are better at light tank hunting than the Shining Spears since they do not need to get as close and normally have a better chance to hit with more shots. Also, the spinneret rifle gives the list another shot at pinning

I understand about the Swooping Hawks. I plan to try them out, but expect them to not do very well. Still my list does not have that much for horde killing and this small units will help in that area. It also gives another chance for pinning and a secondary ability to take out a tank. Though that tank better be worth it since the Hawks are going to get hammered on the turn after (unless I can shield them with a blown up tank).

We can just agree to disagree about the V and D-Cannons.

Harlies are there only for counter assualt. With the shadow Seer, they are great since it will be very difficult to soften them up with fire before my opponent's assualt elements strike. Good idea about the Death Jester, I will look for points so that I can put him in as well.

Ugh, Snakes on Planes seem to be in every Eldar ilst and I am sick of seeing them. I agree they are a very good choice, but already over used by most Eldar players. I refuse to use them in this list.

Thank you for the input. I definitely like the Idea of the Death Jester and will keep a very critical eye on the HAwks to see if they are worth it. A unit of Shining Spears might be better.

The Wraith

It's nice to see something different.

One major weakness I can see is the increasingly-common dreadnaught in a droppod. A +2 cover save is no help against a heavy flamer (and the shadowseer is less helpful at flamer ranges) and there's only a couple of things in the list that can hurt a dread. The str6 weapons will typically only be able to glance it, and a shaken dread can still fight in HtH (where you don't have a lot that can challenge it).

Witchblades and singing spears are the things that kill dreads dead, and this list would benefit from some walky farseer support if you can find a way to squeeze it in.

Oh, and btw, vibrocannons are awesome at shaking enemy vehicles. They don't necessarily kill a lot of enemy troops, but nothing can match them for disabling the fire of enemy vehicles.

Thank you for the advice, Flavius Infernus. You are right that the D-pod Dread will be an issue. All I can hope for is that the Reaper Exarch, Warp Spiders, and Hawks will be enough to bring it down. I know that is not a very high chance, but at least the units are there to try. Depending on where the thing dropped, I might have the mobility for a back shot as well.

Glad to hear someone else like the V-Cannons. I know I do (stupid Russes!)

The Wraith

I like the army and would enjoy to face it. So if you have the models go for it.

If you need to buy models, Id cut down on the Pathfinders. They strongly rely on cover and the more you take, the worse chances you get to place all in ideal locations. Also they do not shoot well enough to win the fire fight against very shooty opponents.

A single Falcon with 6 Harleys would complement the list well. You can almost allways hide one first turn and get an objective later. Also your Hareys wouldnt have to wait until someone comes to them.

Well, I have 36 rangers painted right now

I agree that this entire army relies on cover and that will be an issue. I will just have to make the right calls on which units take priority for the cover over the others. I also hope that the firepower brought by my other units will help compliment the shots buy the Pathfinders. I do not expect the Pathfinders to do it all for me, but that is very much like my Tau army, each paice has its place and use.

Again I am keeping Falcons out of this list. Too many people are playing with them and I want a strong list without them. Think this does that.

Thanks for the ideas, Raider.

The Wraith

I am also starting an Alaitoc army. I like the mottled blue color scheme on the tanks, and I got my ass handed to me by an Alaitoc Ranger list once, so I thought I'd do my own. I finished my first Falcon last night.

The Rangers/Pathfinders are a very nice core unit, since they're relatively cheap, their shooting can be a decent threat to infantry, and they're almost impossible to take out if they're in cover. If you run their numbers, they're good, but I'm not sure they're good enough:

Pathfinder (24 points): 1 Attack, 1/2 hit (not AP1), 1/2 wound, 1/3 fail save = .08 dead MEq
Plus: 1 Attack, 1/3 hit (AP 1), 1/2 wound, no save = .17
Total: .25 dead MEq, .01 dead MEq per point

Point of comparison, MEq on MEq: 2 Attack (rapid fire), 2/3 hit, 1/2 wound, 1/3 fail save = .22 dead MEq, .015 dead MEq per point.

So, they're solid. They've got plenty of range, they can pin their target, and if you can find some 4+ cover, they're pretty close to immune to return fire. Even 5+ cover, which is commonplace, will keep them pretty safe. You've got 24 of them, so you can expect to kill 6 Marines per round, if they're out of cover (which the probably won't be). Killing 36 Marines in a 6 turn game is decent, and it's more than enough to force your opponent to do something about the Pathfinders. You also will probably get at least a few pinning results, which is also nice.

Above all, I think there's a psychological aspect to them, especially against Marines. The Marine player tends to notice when their 3+ save is denied, and they attack the unit that's responsible. Since they're in cover, that demands an assault, or vehicles that can attack them with impunity... And that demands that you support your core of Rangers with counter-assault and tank killing.

The counter-assault units are pretty open, but I'd recommend more than just a single squad of Harlequins. They're murder when they charge, but that's only one squad, and you've got 4 squads of Pathfinders that need support.

As has been said, Fire Dragons are a good option. Personally I think Fire Dragons are a no-brainer coming out of a Falcon. A 6 man unit is pretty cheap, and if you drive up, dump the Dragons, shoot, it's done. 6 Melta shots kills almost anything in the game (not Monoliths, etc.). But, a Falcon with 6 Fire Dragons in it pretty much guarantees a kill on any tank that comes within 18" of the Falcon. You don't want Falcons though...

If you won't take Falcons, War Walkers with Bright Lances are expensive, but they can move and shoot both Lances, which lets them hide, then step out and smoke something when necessary. If I recall, a single WW with 2x Bright Lance is 90 points. Not cheap, but its got a good chance to knock out most tanks, and it can dictate when it engages, though not as well as a Skimmer might.

Something people forget about warp spiders is that the assault move is a piece of crap ability. It's so unreliable that if you plan around it it will screw you every time. Thankfully in this edition it got reworded to say you could move less than the max distance, but man...

My buddy jumped two squads of warp spiders up at my dakkafexes and shot them at 11" or so, then rolled snake eyes on one of the squads. Doh. They got to meet Mister Flappy the following turn and gave up a quick 200 vps.

One more for the road: An eldar army without grav tanks is going to be fighting a crazy uphill battle at holding objectives. All of your units are just so fragile and nothing is really that fast and durable. If you get first turn and don't get to go last, the odds of you having anything survive sitting on objectives is slim at best.

Thank you Phryxis.

Those are some good number to look at and while it is not spectacular, the Pathfinders will make my opponent think about shooting them. I understand why you think there should be another unit of Harlies, but I would rather not dilute the shooting or reduce even more the speed in this list. I have played the Tau since they first came out and know who the deal with opponents coming to assualt me. Heck, this list actually has counter assualt elements which my Tau do not have! I expect to protect the core units (2-3 Pathfinders, the Support Cannond and the Reapers) with the Harlies. 1-2 units of pathfinders will be the bait on the edges of the field. If they decide to go after one of those units then they will most likely kill it, but then have to run length wise into my guns. I lose 144 points to actually slow down the threat of the assualt units. Not a bad trade in most cases.

I did think about those Walkers, but I just feel they are way too fragile even for this army (you are right about them being 90 points) If it does look like the list needs more long range vehicle killnig I will relook at them. The same goes for another unit of Harlies if one does turn out to not be enough.

Longshot, I can tell you just do not like a list without the Eldar vehicles. I agree that the vehicles are great the a tooled out Falcon is the best vehicle in the game now, but I will not use them in this list. Again, my Tau have dealt with objective taking very well with less ability than this list has and a better chance to keep it.Usually I can shoot the people off one objective while getting another with the few things that are mobile. This list will try to handle it the same way.

I agree that the assualt move of the Spiders is not that reliable, but a good player works within the limitations and helps make the odds not a critical factor. Rolling Double ones will always hurt though

The Wraith

What I am curious about now is how the ranger are grouped. Do you think it would be better to have six groups of four,the four groups of six, or something in between? The pros to six groups of four is more scoring units, more chances to pin, and better chance to set up later units if there is no infiltration. The many cons I see is all it takes is one casualty to require a moral test. That seem to be a pretty big negative.

Also, what is the cur4rent consensus on the V-Cannons not needing LOS to shoot stuff? While the book does not say they need it, it still feels wrong to me. Thanks.

The Wraith

they must be in min units of 5.

Oops, I guess I am still thinking the old codex. That definitely makes up my mind!

The Wraith