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Well the new Eldar codex obviously rocks marines, but what army list will trounce them good?

This is just a hunch, but I would pick Necrons to trounce Eldar. Godzilla Nidz will also be a good pick.

Darrian

I'm not seeing the Marine rocking. What makes it so hard for a normal AC-heavy drop list to take down?

It seems quite powerful vs Tau (Railguns are horrible anti-Falcon and anti-Serpent, the S5 shots don't scratch them, and they're left with an Ionhead and a few Suits) and Guard (prohibitive cost of Starcannon means everyone's sticking with the ShuriCans, Fire Dragons have heavy flamers, static Guard go down hard to Harlequins).

I don't understand how Godzilla nids would be that hard to take out. The two best choices in the new codex are Fire Dragons and Harlequins, and I doubt you'll see a competitive army that doesn't max out on Elite slots. A 6-man Harlie charge has a very good chance of dropping a Monstrous Creature, and 5 Fusion Guns come very close to killing one.

While the Necrons can inflict hideous numbers of glancing hits, they can only do so from inside rapid-fire, and thus charge, range. A squad of 20 Necron Warriors only averages 4.44 glances on a Falcon or Serpent, but you need 36 or 6, respectively, to kill a VE-equipped vehicle. After that, the Harlies dismount and rip right through the Necrons. The Eldar still can't deal with Monoliths, but now almost every anti-MEQ weapon available to them negates WBB, and they've got a pretty good shot of completely wiping out whole units at a time. 11 Harlies and an HQ IC (which could easily fit into two Falcons) can drop 15 Necrons on a shoot & charge. With just a little extra support, you can wipe out a Veiling squad without allowing any WBB rolls.

Chaos would be a tough opponent - tank-hunting AutoCannons are quite useful against Eldar skimmers. I still maintain that mobile Marines are nasty - the AC is just as good as an Autocannon or Lascannon against Eldar vehicles and annihilates all Eldar infantry.

Me, i have the hardest time with great ork players. They have great anti-tank, great anti-infantry and they can be in your lines incredibly fast.

In the old days, heavy bolters killed Eldar. Add the new ACs to, say, 8 HBs and all Eldar infantry on the board is dead before you know it.

Continue to take Heavy Bolter Dev squads and just add tank hunter. Now you have 12 shots at S6 vs 12 armor. Then, you get to shred Eldar infantry.

I don't see Mairnes just getting rocked by Eldar b/c of the new Codex.

Could you explain why Marines don't seem to stand a chance?

Eldar have always been the counterbalancing influence to marines, keeping them honest. That's partly why many players hate Eldar so much--because they have rules that break marine rules or offset marine advantages. They make marines do things they don't want to do like move or not take so many assault cannons or put tankhunter on heavy bolter devs.

Marines are just as good against Eldar as they ever were; you just have to build with the possibility of Eldar in mind. It's a good thing--it'll infuse new life and variety into the standard marine armies.

I disagree with Tau being horrible against Eldar, although railguns won't drop falcons/prims they will prevent them from shooting, a devilfish can shake off a ton of str 6 shots, most of the army is very mobile and pulse rifles will ravage eldar infantry.

That's not to say that Eldar don't have alot going for them against Tau. I suspect that most games between good players will be point denial chess matches

Assuming I do enough pods with the Marines vs. Eldar I shouldn't have too much trouble taking on Eldar with Assault Cannons being the Primary weapon in the army. With 4 Terminator Squads with Tank Hunters and Assault Cannons I should get enough coverage to take on the new Eldar.

What are your drop AC's gonna do when they get 3 squads of fire dragons dropped on them? that's right, die.

Heck you'll lose a squad at a time to fusion/laser lance autarchs, harlequins, whatever. You're not taking the falcons down. And if even one gets to shoot that's even more dead.

I really do not think pods are enough against the new Eldar. Just not fast enough and way too fragile to focused fire that Eldar excel at.

Oddly enough, Eldar rate to have the roughest game against sit-and-shoot marines (Iron warriors, or modern mauleed style marines) compared to most other marine armies. IW can get first turn and put two falcons down and that's the game.

Pods hold absolutely no fear at all for Eldar who will just continually outmaneuver them and then take all the objectives, while focus-firing them piecemeal. Having to bear the entire brunt of a shootie marine army's long range firepower is much more threatening.

Toughest army for Eldar, even new Snakes on Planes/Jetbike/Waveserpent Eldar, is going to be Godzilla nids. Second toughest will be Necrons. I might have this order reversed.

People have a lot to say about Necrons only being dangerous in rapid fire range, but they're forgetting the optimum necron army involves 2 monoliths and 30 immortals. Both of those things are absolutely deadly for Eldar.

I'm also going to vote for Necrons. Eldar have very limited access to S9+ weapons, and all their best tank killing options (Fire Dragons, Lance weapons) do nothing to the Monolith. Falcons will be very vulnerable to Destroyers, and to any sort of high volume Glancing shooting really. That's not to say that Necrons automatically win, I just see them as being the most problematic. Being nearly totally unable to slow down the Monolith is major, because it's one thing to decide to ignore it... The Necron player can't bank on you doing that. But if he KNOWS you can't hurt his Monolith, it makes it very easy for him to send it cruising in to the middle of things, and maintain the castle formation.

I think Marines/Chaos have a good chance since Starcannons and Bright Lances are so costly. Iron Warriors would probably have a pretty easy time shooting them off the table, especially with some Autocannons with Tank Hunters for the Falcons. I'd give my Blood Angels very good odds against pretty much any Eldar list, but that's probably more because Blood Angels are totally broken.

Weapons w/ AP4 are nightmarish for Eldar. I discovered this with my Tau. It was then I discovered a use for my Railhead to not fire at S10.

Immortals w/ T5 and their weapons can be brutally dangerous, especially with a Veil or Monolith portal. Monoliths were problematic, but I think people will figure out why Hawks are in the codex.

Necrons have always been the bane of Eldar. Glance the crap out of our tanks, rapidfire our troops, ignore our special armor pen rules, and when we assault them they won't break (Ld10), will stand back up, teleport out, and rapidfire us some more. Given similar-skill players with good lists, an Eldar player has to pray for a favorable scenario or lucky dice against Necrons.

JSJ Tau should be able to hold their own against Eldar. Especially Crisis heavy Tau.

Its do able with Tau if you have plenty of missile pods (which any good Tau has). Keep the Falcons shaken and otherwise use JSJ to stay out of LOS. Rapid-firing Kroot, SS and MechFWs should take care of Harlies.

Posted By Longshot on 11/24/2006 10:39 PM
What are your drop AC's gonna do when they get 3 squads of fire dragons dropped on them? that's right, die.

Heck you'll lose a squad at a time to fusion/laser lance autarchs, harlequins, whatever. You're not taking the falcons down. And if even one gets to shoot that's even more dead.

I really do not think pods are enough against the new Eldar. Just not fast enough and way too fragile to focused fire that Eldar excel at.

Oddly enough, Eldar rate to have the roughest game against sit-and-shoot marines (Iron warriors, or modern mauleed style marines) compared to most other marine armies. IW can get first turn and put two falcons down and that's the game.

Pods hold absolutely no fear at all for Eldar who will just continually outmaneuver them and then take all the objectives, while focus-firing them piecemeal. Having to bear the entire brunt of a shootie marine army's long range firepower is much more threatening.

Toughest army for Eldar, even new Snakes on Planes/Jetbike/Waveserpent Eldar, is going to be Godzilla nids. Second toughest will be Necrons. I might have this order reversed.

People have a lot to say about Necrons only being dangerous in rapid fire range, but they're forgetting the optimum necron army involves 2 monoliths and 30 immortals. Both of those things are absolutely deadly for Eldar.

You can take 3 Squads of Firedragons, but are they in Falcons or their own Waveserpents?

If they're in Falcons then my 5 Man Terminator Squad has a good chance of surviving through the 6 Fusion Blaster Shots with ~2 Marines (who will have assault Cannons) and they'll then shoot the crap out of the Dragons.

If you're in wave serpents, then yes my Termies would die, but I now have a priority target in a much more killable waveserpent.

Harlies will die to my drop podding dreads w/ Heavy Flamers and Assault Cannons (in fact any troop/unit in your army will) and whatever big ones you may have taken will have to deal with taking fire from my suicide Tac Squads w/ 2 Plasma Guns.

I'm not saying it's an easy win, but it's not the worst matchup, and it's entirely winnable.

Posted By Mephet'ran on 11/25/2006 7:41 AM
Its do able with Tau if you have plenty of missile pods (which any good Tau has). Keep the Falcons shaken and otherwise use JSJ to stay out of LOS. Rapid-firing Kroot, SS and MechFWs should take care of Harlies.

My thoughts exactly Mephet'ran. Crisis suits generally pack oodles of multi-shot STR 6-7 weaponry which is the bane of Eldar vehicles. Eldar mobility is less effective when the enemy is almost as mobile as you.  An SMSFish kills 2.6 harlies while a 12 Tau FW unit kill 6.67 Harlies when rapid-firing. First Turn becomes vitally important as both armies need to get their skimmers moving, Eldar especially.

On the other hand, Jetbikes are nasty against Tau. 3+ invulnerable/fortuned saves on autarchs and shining spears means that broadsides and crisis suits really have to watch out.

Agreed. What I fear the most as a Tau player from Eldar are Snakes on a Plane and Fortuned Shining Spears. A combination of those two would completely massacre me and I don't see a way of countering such a list with Tau.