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Hi guys

I'm normally a small elite marine/eldar player and i REALLY fancy a change.

I bought the Nid codex today, I want a HORDE but with some big stompas.

What do you think about this list?

HQ

Hive Tyrant (CC beasty)
Extended carapace (+1sv)
Scything talons (+1A)
Rending Claws
Wings
152 pts

Hive Tyrant (shooty beasty)
Enhanced senses (+1bs)
Toxin sacs (+1St)
Rending Claws
Venom Cannon
141 pts

TROOPS
(all basic)
16 x Hormagaunts 160
16 x Hormagaunts 160
16 x Hormagaunts 160

16 x Termagaunts 96
16 x Termagaunts 96
16 x Termagaunts 96

HEAVY SUPPORT

Carnifex
Venom Cannon
Barbed strangler
Enhanced senses (+1bs)
Reinforced Chitin (+1w)
163 pts

Carnifex
Venom Cannon
Barbed strangler
Enhanced senses (+1bs)
Reinforced Chitin (+1w)
163 pts

Carnifex
Venom Cannon
Barbed strangler
Enhanced senses (+1bs)
Reinforced Chitin (+1w)
163 pts

Total = 1550

What do you think of my list? it sticks to my criteria of BIG stompas and WEENY gribblies, but will i suffer on synapse range?

How and where should i drop 50 points?

have i made any glaring schoolboy errors?

thanks for your time!

rev

Don't bother giving the CC tyrant rending claws; it's a waste, and denies you an extra attack. 2 sets of scything talons are the way to go. He can't have extended carapace along with wings; it's specificly banned.

The shooty tyrant also have the claws; big no-no. Either replace them with scy tals, or twin-linked devourers.

One thing for me anyway is I don't like a lot of gaunts anymore, the only reason being they slow down the game.. your movement phase is going to be very long at the begining of a game. Not only that, but it's also a lot more to keep track of. That's just my own personal preference though.

I would as suggested take away the rending claws on the tyrants and add talons and/or devourers. I'd take away some or all of those hormagaunts and add in something bigger.. lictors can be a lot of fun, and I like raveners and warriors with rending claws too. Genestealers are also great, gaunts were my favorite in the old version, stealers are now. I'd also consider dropping one of the fexes (fexen? fexii?) for something else.. if you're looking for fun, biovores are.. give em acid mines for marine melting power. Or, some zoanthropes for extra synapse. the flying tyrants can keep with the faster hormagaunts but the termagants if you use them will be slower.. so it might be fun to throw in some zoanthropes to blast some stuff along the way

aha!

I knew i needed some pointers from the pro's -

I've amended the Tyrants to have (as you suggested) Scy talons, not rending claws. Is this becasue the Tyrant is a monsstrous creature that you say they rending claws are wasted?

Would it be a good idea to drop the carapace rather than wings, so the CC tyrant can keep up (but loose the tasty 2+sv)?

they now look like this:

HQ

Hive Tyrant (CC beasty)
2x Scything talons (+1A)
Wings
131pts

Hive Tyrant (shooty beasty)
Enhanced senses (+1bs)
Toxin sacs (+1St)
Scything talons (+1A)
Venom Cannon
145 pts



I really want the 3 Fex's i think, for sheer coolness as i plonk them on the table. I love the 'regeneration head' and even though i'm not taking the biomorph will use it cos i like it. I also love the thought of having HUGE creatures and TINY critters and nothing in between. I was considering warriors but i really dislike the head they are supplied with (and the army is all about personal satisfaction not winning - i've got other armies to use if i'm desperate to win!).

The lictors and biovores do look fun, but again i'm not a huge fan of the models. The biovore rules also seem a little vague - are they barrage? do they need LOS to hit etc?

What i'm REALLY unsure about is the gaunts. I have no idea what cheap combo's are effective. I've included fleshborers and hormagaunts cos i like the models. I don't mind spine fists, but they dont seem as effective as fleshborers.

thanks for the comments so far keep 'em coming please!

rev

I like the fleshborer gaunt, termagaunt, quite a bit. Not only is it S4, but it does re-roll wounds. These capture and hold the majority of my points in an objective based match. I do agree with Necros, I think you might want to include some slower synapse to keep those termagaunts in line, especially to hold positions. Although the +1 cover save from lurking is cool, they do not count as a scoring unit during that turn. Keep the wings on the Flyrant, as you will need him to keep the hormagaunts in check.

Just my 2 cents,
ForceVoid

when you say include slower synapse, I am taking the 2nd Tyrant (without wings) would this not be sufficient?

1 tyrant with wings to follow leaping hormagaunts, and 1 tyrant walking to plod with termagaunts.

how many gaunts is 'enough' to generally outnumber a foe - i'm thinking of 6 units of 16 atm.

thanks!

rev

Well, something to remember about gaunts, horma- in particular, against Marines. While you can (and will) do some damage on the charge, those resillant super-apes will drag your gaunts down eventually. I think you might be able to counter that with the large number you have there, I would be interested to find out how it goes.

As for slower synapse, one or two zoanthropes for back/mid-field synapse would go a long way I think. Perhaps outfit them with synapse/psychic scream to help ensure the gunline focuses on the gaunts and not the zoanthropes/tyrant.

the way I've always played my guants is to NOT have them try to get kills. Sure, it's nice when they get a few but their job is to get killed, not the other way around. You want to get them in close combat ASAP (which is why shooty gaunts always seemed like a waste to me) so that they can tie up their units and hold them in place and block LOS to stuff behind them.. so that your bigger and slower stuff can get up there and do the real killing. Doesn't always work out that way, but it's what I try to do.

Biovores don't need line of site.. so you can shoot anywhere on the table within their range (48" I think). If you have 2 biovores, then it will count as a barrage, but I think just 1 counts as a normal shot and if you don't get a hit, then your mine will be on the board and drift around.. if it's close enough to something, you could stop a unit from shooting if they're scared it'll blow up. Not too many folks seem to like em and think they're worth the points, but I do.. they're just fun I usually have 2 on the board, just hide em in cover somewhere.

I usually run 2 tyrants also. One for close combat 1 for shooting. The shooty one sits back to provide synapse to slower things, the other flys in with the hormaguants & raveners. I tried a non-flying CC tyrant with guards but he was too easy to avoid, so yeah they gotta have wings or they'll never do anything.

I try and aim double attack with my assaults.. and plan it so that my fast stuff hits the enemy (hormaguants, raveners, CC tyrant), and the following turn my slower stuff hits em again (stealers, leaping warriors, anything else). After that there's usually not much left of the other guy unless his shooting was really good or I just couldn't get cover for my advance. That's a big one too, you gotta try and use cover as much as possible while you cross the board.. and that can be difficult with so many large units of gaunts. A unit of bugs out in the open is a dead unit of bugs out in the open. But, that's true for almost any low armor army really.

Anywya, just some more things to think about

Thanks for the thoughts guys.

the Zoanthrope models are HIDEOUS so definatly not taking them - it'd break my heart to have a model that poor in any army!

The biovores are growing on my but i'm still not convinced - tho they do seem fun and i LOVE things that dont need LOS.

If you could only take one type of gaunt (or maybe2) which would you take (out of intrest)?

i'm happy to die completly, as long as i have fun doing so!!

agree w/ Necros above.

you said:
Hive Tyrant (CC beasty)
2x Scything talons (+1A)
Wings
131pts

remember, 2x Scytals = +2 attacks, not +1

Rending claws are not cost effective on a Monstrous Creature, since MC allows no armor save anyway. Your odds are better adding an extra attack instead.

Spinefists are not as effective in shooting, you're correct. But they're cheaper. IF you intend to use your guants as Necros suggests above (to swamp CC and prevent enemies from shooting you, rather than actually being combat effective (and guants generally aren't combat effective anyway)) then keep them as cheap as you can. So: consider keeping some with devourers, and other units are really just sacrificial, so give em spinefists.

And I like the three fexes. Sounds like fun. Everyone's right that you will probably have some synapse shortages, but so what. Try out this list against a friend and see what happens. Good luck.

Thats the key - it sounds like fun!

I've just looked at the gunfex models and they're not as cool as normaly fex's cos they have no talons!!

how about 3 fex's with venom thingmies, and talons, that walk and shoot rather than act like devestators.

talons look cooler thatn 2 guns by far!!

EDIT

new list, with a few changes - 1501pts!

1) upgraded carnifex's - lots of points each but will look cooler and be more fun!!


HQ

Hive Tyrant (CC beasty)
2x Scything talons (+2A)
Wings
131pts

Hive Tyrant (shooty beasty)
Enhanced senses (+1bs)
Toxin sacs (+1St)
Scything talons (+1A)
Venom Cannon
145 pts

TROOPS
(all basic)
16 x Hormagaunts 160
16 x Hormagaunts 160
16 x Spinegaunts 80
16 x Termagaunts 96
16 x Termagaunts 96

HEAVY SUPPORT

x3 Carnifex (uberfex)




Strategy - charge.

?!?! rev

what about winged warriors as fast synapse and 2 walking tyrants?

Slow down there pardner!

There are a number of issues you need to consider before you go down this path.

First and foremost is Escalation. If you ever play in games where Escalation is used (Omega level missions) you're going to have a whole bunch of problems with this army list.

In Escalation, all your Synapse starts off the board so all those Gaunts are either going to have to sit in cover and lurk or probably run off the table if you try to move them.

In addition, your very expensive Carnifexes will all start of the table and almost never get into CC, thereby wasting all those pretty biomorphs you've given them.

If you never play with Escalation (or only play Cities of Death) your list could possibly function.

If you *do* play with Escalation your Synapse choices that start on the table are: Warriors, Zoanthropes and a Broodlord. Zoanthropes are by far the most useful, but you've already said you don't like the models.

That leaves Warriors and a Broodlord. Broodlords pretty much blow in Alpha missions and they are generally substandard to a Hive Tyrant anyway, so that would leave you with taking Warriors.

Warriors are very pricey for what they do so you want to keep them very cheap. I only give them Scything Talons/Rending Claws and Extended Carapace (sometimes Leaping if I feel I need them into combat a turn earlier and there are enough other threats in the army that they might actually make it).

Wings are a horrible choice, since they are uber-expensive and mean the Warriors cannot take a 4+ save. Winged Warriors with a 5+ save have to stay out of LOS pretty much the whole game or they get absolutely smeared by enemy fire. That really limits their ability to give you Synapse where *you* need it; instead the terrain dictates where they can possibly be put and stay alive, which is not good.

A few other random points:

 

1) Consider at least one Tyrant Guard with the walking Tyrant (if not two). They make that Tyrant nearly indestructable (as opponents don't want to bother shooting at that unit when they need to kill at least 6 wounds to kill off the Tyrant). Also, the Tyrant Guard give the HT a boost in CC which frees you up for the following:

 

2) Take a twin-linked Devourer on your Walking Tyrant to go with the Venom Cannon. Sure the two weapons don't really jive, but you have enough anti-tank in your army with all those Carnifex that later in the game you'll appreciate the option to decimate troop units with those Devourers.

 

3) Hormaguants also have to start off the board in Escalation and that really limits their usefulness. Consider either taking a single speed-bump unit to throw at the enemy in non-Escalation games, or take multiple big units and give them all +1WS, +1S, & +1I and use them as your shock troops to kill stuff in CC.

If you play with Escalation, I recommend the former option (the single speed-bump unit). If you don't play with Escalation, I recommend the latter (the multiple super-gaunt units).

 

Good luck!

 

thanks Yakface, some really helpful stuff there.

I think your right, i need some warriors.

Hows this?

Only 2 Uberfex's, more gaunts (better to go with less gaunts and get some tyant gaurd? less horms more terms?)


1498pts

HQ 276

Hive Tyrant (CC beasty)
2x Scything talons (+2A)
Wings
131pts

Hive Tyrant (shooty beasty)
Enhanced senses (+1bs)
Toxin sacs (+1St)
Scything talons (+1A)
Venom Cannon (3Str 8 shots)
145 pts

ELITE 132

3x Warriors
2x Scything talons
66

3x Warriors
2x Scything talons
66

TROOPS 668
(all basic)
20 x Hormagaunts 200
20 x Hormagaunts 200
20 x spinegaunts 100
14 x Termagaunts 84
14 x Termagaunts 84

HEAVY SUPPORT 422

x2 Carnifex (uberfex 211 points each)

WS   BS   S   T   W   I     A     LD   SV
  4      3    10  7    5   2   2(3)   10    3+

Venom Cannon (2x Str 10 shots each)
Scything Talons (+1A)
Adrenal Glands (+1In)           To strike before Pfists..
Adrenal Glands (+1WS),
Bonded Exoskeleton (+1T)
Enhanced Senses (+1BS)
Flesh Hooks                         frag grenades
Reinforced Chitin (+1W)
Tail Weapon: Mace (+1A str 10)
Toxin Sacs (+1Str)
Toxic Miasma (-1Ws)
Tusked (+2A)                      instead of 1 on charge

(211 points each)

Yeah, I forgot about Escalation .. that's one that I always have trouble with too. I hate excalation, I only play it if i have to cuz of a tournament

And yes it's good to keep your warriors cheap.. but for dealing with marines and any armor in general I'd go with claws & tallons .. the extra tallon attacks won't really do much against good armor. Plus they look cool I also give my warriors leaping even though it can make them a little pricey. And they must have extended carapace or every bolter shot will kill them. So... take em with Extended Carapace, Scything Talons and Rending Claws, for 27 pts each .. Leaping is really nice if you can spare the points but that bumps em up to 35 pts each. I usually give them leaping all the time, it's fun jumping your hormaguants in there, then seeing your opponents look of terror as you jump your warriors in there with em

Also if you don't like the new zoanthropes, you can try using the older ones that are more snakelike, and just don't attach the big head shell, that's how I did mine

Here's a link to my current army list.. only tweak I'm gonna make for my next game is to swap the guards onto the other tyrant and give the CC one some wings.. so it might give ya some ideas It's got a lot of diversity which is what I like, so it's not a "perfect" tournament list, but you can still do well with it if you know how

Oh, I forgot. The wings take up one of the arm slots, so they replace a weapon. You can't have wings AND two sets of scytals.
I don't have the codex in front of me, can anyone back me up on this?
-Ferro

(Edit:  I confess this seems to be an implied rule, I can't find anything explicit in the Tyranid codex.  Actually the wording of the codex wants you to add wings in addition to two weapon symbiotes.  But this seems wrong because it would yield a tyranid creature with eight limbs, and all tyranids have six limbs.  Furthermore, all gargoyles have wings instead of the middle set of weapon symbiotes, the forgeworld winged warriors and tyrants are a visual reference, and artwork in the Anphelion Project shows the same winged tyrant (six limbs total).  Even the Harridan has only six limbs, though it's wings are so big they grow out of four arm holes.  Still, I can't find an official RULE.

I will launch a new thread to pursue this, don't wanna hijack yours!  Let's see what we can find out.)

i Can't see that restriction listed under the wings entry, and the Htyrant entry says he must have 2 weapon symbiotes, and any biomorphs, so i guess its ok?

its an intresting quesiton though, the forgeworld tyrant has only one set of Scy talons..

rev

There is no such rule.

I believe the FW fluff does state (somewhere) that the wings are so razor-sharp that they count as scything talons...or I could be making that up, but it's one way to justify wings in an arm slot, AND 2 weapon biomorphs.

Plus, a few months back WD features the GT UK winner, with a Nid army, who uses winged warriors/Tyrant...with ScyTals/Rending/Wings on the warriors, so it's got to be legal (or she would have been disqualified).