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Anyone who plays with black Templars (or against them) feel free to comment.  My goals were to crease a close combat oriented list based around the "horde" concept, fielding as many initiates as possible.  I field 38 marines in a 1500 pt game, and still squeeze in terminators!  If I had the models, I would probably shave off pounts and run donkey cannons on the speeders.  I run one squad with bolters to hit units like stealers and harlies which can run my day with a good charge, but drop like flies to bolteres. 

Some people where I play use the UK GT ruling that independant characters can join squads before the game.  If that is the case, the EC joins the 9 man unit.  If not, he hides behind terrain.  People will actually spend poinds trying to kill him.  If terrain is availbable, I can start the speeders there as well.



<table width="357" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 268pt;" x:str=""> <col width="157" style="width: 118pt;"></col> <col width="72" style="width: 54pt;"></col> <col width="64" style="width: 48pt;" span="2"></col> <tbody> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td width="157" height="17" style="height: 12.75pt; width: 118pt;">Fidelis Crusade</td> <td width="72" style="width: 54pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> <td width="64" style="width: 48pt;"> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">Troops</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl24">Cost</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Squad Letum</td> <td style="" colspan="2">10x Initiates, Drop pod</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(10*16)+15+10+30" x:num="">215</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Power Fist, Meltagun, BP + CCW</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Squad Veneratio</td> <td style="" colspan="2">9x Initiates, Drop Pod</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(9*16)+15+10+30" x:num="">199</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Power Fist, Meltagun, BP + CCW</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Squad Dolor</td> <td style="" colspan="2">10x Initiates, Drop Pod</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(10*16)+6+15+30" x:num="">211</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Power Fist, Plasma-gun, Bolters</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">HQ</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Command Squad Laus</td> <td>Drop Pod</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">30</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Marshall Frederick II</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(80+30+15+25+1)" x:num="">151</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Lightning claws, terminator honors</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Iron Halo, cruader seals, frag grenades</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td style="" colspan="3">6x Initiates, BP + CCW</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td>2x meltagun</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(7*16)+20+30" x:num="">162</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td>1x Sergent</td> <td style="" colspan="2">P. Fist, Bolt pistol</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td>Teleport homer</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" colspan="2">Emperor's Champion Ludendorf</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">140</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td style="" colspan="2">Accept any Challenge</td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">Elites</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Terminator Squad Ferreus</td> <td style="" colspan="2">5 Terminators</td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=(40*5)+40+15" x:num="">255</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td style="" colspan="3">2x Assauilt Cannon, tankhunters</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;" class="xl24">Fast Attack</td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Land Speeder Flamma</td> <td>multi-melta</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">65</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;">Land Speeder Ignis</td> <td>multi-melta</td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:num="">65</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td class="xl24">Total</td> </tr> <tr height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> <td height="17" style="height: 12.75pt;"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td align="right" x:fmla="=SUM(D3<img src='http://www.dakkadakka.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/images/emoticons/biggrin.gif'>32)" x:num="">1498</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

That's a strong looking list. I play codex drop pod marines, and while the librarian is a man of the match in that setup, I can see the BT rules being useful in some situations.

I just love my Tornados, so I'd maybe retool the speeders, but other than that no gripes.

Ditch the plasma gun in squad Dolor. If you try to doubletap inside charge range, you're in trouble when you cannot deal the rest of your damage in CC. Swap it for a Flamer to get more bang for your buck.

You also might want to consider swapping the Iron Halo on your Marshal for an Adamantine Mantle and a Combat Shield. I too was an advocate of a 4+ Invulnerable save, but then when I got popped by a hidden fist, I took the advice of a friend and got much better results. Being immune to Instant Death! is very nice, and the 5+ Invulnerable is all you need (CC only, but your Command Squad will act as ablative shielding for shooting damage.), especially when its' only five points.

I run a similar list, and I am pleased with its success. Good luck.

CK

A few other ideas to consider:

drop the squad sizes to 8 (or less)

drop the landspeeders for another pod

Put the marshall in terminator armor and turn the termie squad into a command squad and add a pod for them.

Also consider dreads in pods.

I've found I do best when I maximize the number of pods that drop in any given army. If you really work it, you can get 8 pods in a templar 1500 point army. It's worth looking into.

Thanks for all of the feedback.

Here's the list as I've been playing it for the last week. I realized that if I cut the troop squads down I could drop the emp champion. If you read the most recent GW FAQ, you can keep the EC in reserve and as long as he makes his reserve roll the turn a pod is available he can tag along with them, as long as that pod is NOT a command squad!

Fidelis Crusade
Troops
Squad Letum 9x Initiates, Drop pod
Power Fist, Meltagun, BP + CCW

Squad Veneratio 9x Initiates, Drop Pod
Power Fist, Meltagun, BP + CCW

Squad Dolor 9x Initiates, Drop Pod
Power Fist, Plasma-gun, Bolters

HQ
Command Squad Laus Drop Pod
Marshall Frederick II
Lightning claws, terminator honors
Iron Halo, cruader seals, frag grenades
7x Initiates, BP + CCW, Apothecary
2x meltagun
1x Sergent P. Fist, Bolt pistol
Teleport homer

Emperor's Champion Ludendorf
Accept any Challenge

Elites
Terminator Squad Ferreus 5 Terminators
2x Assauilt Cannon, tankhunters

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Flamma multi-melta

Land Speeder Ignis multi-melta

I just got my hands on some Baal predator bits. With a little bit of putty and some old credit cards that came with junk mail, I can model the donkey cannons into the cowling of the speeders.

Smaller squads in pods are nice, because it is impossible to hide 8,9, or 10 guys behind a pod. 'Nilla marines can take cleanse and purify and get 2 plasma guns per pod, which means they pack a serious shooting threat.

As a templar player, I need to get into close combat. The only question I have is about the CC effectiveness of those smaller units. Though as it stands now I drop in, usually take 3-4 casualties and then righteous zeal. Perhaps I wouldn't lose much effectiveness by going to a 6-7 man loadout on the initiates! Anyone tried podding templars or close combat marines in small squads...if so, how did it work for you????

I play my Templars Drop Pod style almost exclusively. The RZ really is kinda cool out of a pod.

I run 8 marines PF/Melta in crusader squads w/ pods. This is enough to soak up some fire and still RZ into CC. And, thanks to the new FAQ, allows room for the EC. I find if even a small left over unit makes it into CC, the PF kinda keeps it even until you move some more crusaders into the fray.

You should try mixing your Initiates in your crusader squads half bolter/bolt pistol & CCW. This way you get some Rapid fire on the drop. Just remove the Bolter models first in your opponents shooting.

I have had good success with Assualt Terminators in a pod list. I know typically they are shunned, but the RZ out of a pod really makes them click if you use the pod to block LOS from all but a couple enemy units.

The poster who said a BT Marshall in Terminator Armor and Retinue was right. This is great HQ for a BT Pod army.

I have a marshall I modeled with combi-pasmagun and thunder hammer in termie armor!  I field him with the other termies in "fun" games. 

I think I would give him lightning claws if I was going for competitiveness, better get on battlewagon bits!!!  I can build the termie there for around $20.00 and have lots of cool templar bits to kit him out with.

Based on your recommendation, I'll try the smaller squads.