Pen shots make you get out right??

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**Kultofthebonedragons**

Situation happen to me last night that was kinda weird.

I was playing DE Vs A black templar

He tried to tank shock some wytches and i just moved out of the way . Full squad of 10. Next turn the LRC was in charge range and i though it would be fun too kill a LRC with my wytches( which had haywire grenades)

I surrounded the LRC with a model next too every exit . So that, If he tried to escape I would crush him . I rolled pretty good lots of sixes, and then on the chart i role one six which was Pen 1 . So that made every one get out of the LRC , right does that mean they all died since they have no place too go or does that mean were in HTH( there were wytches all around thew LRC)

She argued with me that were in HTH and i was saying No your EC and that sqaud was now dead , Was i correct??

**Antonin**

Yes.

Now, here's an interesting point, by a strict RAW: a pen hit causes the models to get out immediately. Of course, then you roll to see what the pen result was, and then test for death on a 4+ with failed save, etc.

But, by the time you test to see if the models are wounded, there aren't any in the vehicle - they got out "immediately" when the pen result happened....

**Flavius Infernus**

Kult: the rule that explains how passengers with no room to disembark are killed is on page 62 of the main rulebook in the last paragraph of that page.

Antonin: the first paragraph on page 68 makes it clear that casualties due to wrecked vehicles happen "in addition to" emergency disembarkation in spite of the fact that disembarkation happens immediately.

**Galderon**

Posted By Antonin on 12/21/2006 10:45 AM
Yes.

Now, here's an interesting point, by a strict RAW: a pen hit causes the models to get out immediately. Of course, then you roll to see what the pen result was, and then test for death on a 4+ with failed save, etc.

But, by the time you test to see if the models are wounded, there aren't any in the vehicle - they got out "immediately" when the pen result happened....

The auto disembark is intended for shooting. In HtH they are toast.

**DaIronGob**

The auto disembark is intended for shooting.

true, but when surrounding all exits when the enemy unit attempts to Disembark cause them to be destroyed. You wouldn't wait until the assault/combat phase to 'remove' them, they would be destroyed immediately.

Also the OP was going from the assault phase anyway... unless I am mistaken.

Antonin's comment was just pointing out that if they are destroyed due to the Emergrency Disembarkation then you would save yourself the trouble of rolling the 4+ and giving them a save.... they are destroyed immediately as they attempt to exit the vehicle.

Wierd, I swear that's what you are all saying but everyone is saying it differently?

**moosifer**

Im a wee bit confused, you blocked all the exits, then attacked and pen'd the vehicle. On that you rolled a 6? If this is the case:

Which means technically couldn't the blocking units, which are in CC take dmg from a 4+ if they are within 1d6 range of the vehicle. If they take casualties and fail morale, do they fall back before the unit exiting the vehicle can get wiped off the map.

Another question: I thought you could no longer block exits and you had to be at least 1" away if you are not assaulting. This is puzzling cause i believe the LRC has 3 exit points and i do not believe any unit can cover all 3 (2 side 1 front)

**DaIronGob**

Posted By moosifer on 12/22/2006 7:00 AM
Im a wee bit confused, you blocked all the exits, then attacked and pen'd the vehicle. On that you rolled a 6? If this is the case:

Which means technically couldn't the blocking units, which are in CC take dmg from a 4+ if they are within 1d6 range of the vehicle. If they take casualties and fail morale, do they fall back before the unit exiting the vehicle can get wiped off the map.

Another question: I thought you could no longer block exits and you had to be at least 1" away if you are not assaulting. This is puzzling cause i believe the LRC has 3 exit points and i do not believe any unit can cover all 3 (2 side 1 front)

Ok your first question would be yes if the wyches were within the 1d6" range of the explosion they would take a 4+ to be hit. However the second part to your question wouldn't effect the unit inside since the unit inside the transport would be wiped out PRIOR to the explosion since they MUST disembark as soon as a penetrating hit is rolled. Second the hits from the explosion wouldn't be causing the Wyches to fall back since it happened in the combat phase. Any wounds would be counted towards the combat and since the LRC exploded the Wyches would have won the combat regardless of the wounds they received from the explosion making no need to roll a morale check.

Second question-a unit can indeed cover all exits by moving in with assault moves. What you are thinking of is that they can only roll against the armor value of the facing that the majority of the unit is in when they make their assault move. The assaulting unit, provided they have enough movement during the assault phase, can surround a vehicle but can only 'hit' the armor value of the facing that the majority of their unit is assaulting.

**Kultofthebonedragons**

It was a Pen 1 and i assaulted the LRC with Haywire grenades and a agonizers(sp)
Haywire grenades (1 does nuthing 2-5 glances 6 pens) I rolled a lot of glaning hits and one pen which was a Pen 1. Nuthing blow up

**DaIronGob**

Ok so there were no explosions, that's fine but the point is the unit inside would've been destroyed when they were forced to disembark, regardless.

So it sounds like you were playing it right.

And did I read it correctly... did you say you were playing a she? ;-)

**moosifer**

Im still confused by kult. Rolling a 1 on the pen table doesnt destroy the vehicle. Are you saying you got a pen and then got a 4/5?

**Kultofthebonedragons**

vehicle was never destroyed I rolled One on the pen chart which made every one jump out per the rule( next turn the Lcr with it hurricane bolters ripped about most of my wytches

**moosifer**

gotcha. I thought that you could no longer block exits from vehicles. It seems silly to lose an entire unit because people are "blocking" a frontal assault ramp. Esp since the vehicle did not explode, it should be locked in assault with no charge bonus. I hope she didnt have termies inside

I mean if you read TSOALR you know that blocking ramps on LR's means you get squished

**Saldiven**

Fluff =! rule.

Blocking access points is still a viable tactic, especially if enemy is silly enough to place their transport into a location where that can happen.

Sal.

**midnight**

Yea, but Wytches just hop out of the way and hack apart anyone trying to crawl out of the vehicle.

The rules are there and there aren't exceptions for any vehicle. All transports have to deal with this.