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Thanks for taking a look at my post.  I was interested in fielding an Emperor's Children army but it didn't have the right feel.  So I took a stab at writing a generic Chaos list and I think this will work better.  I haven't written many Chaos lists before so I'm not familiar with _all_ the rules and intricasis involved...so let me know if I'm doing anything illegal.

HQ
157 - CSM Lord w/ Flight, Resilience, Stature, Strength, Icon, Dread Axe, CCW, Frag, MoCU

Elites
149 - Noise Marines x 6, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade x5, Blast Master, Icon
149 - Noise Marines x 6, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade x5, Blast Master, Icon

Fast Attack
129 - CSM Bikers x 3, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade, Skilled Riders, Icon
129 - CSM Bikers, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade, Skilled Riders, Icon

 Troops
133 - CSM x 6, MoCU, Las/Plas, Infiltrate, Icon
133 - CSM x 6, MoCU, Las/Plas, Infiltrate, Icon
133 - CSM x 6, MoCU, Las/Plas, Infiltrate, Icon

Heavy
192 - CSM Havocs x 6, MoS, Blast Master x 3, Tank Hunters, Icon
206 - CSM Havocs x 6, MoCU, Autocannon x 4, Tank Hunters, Infiltrate, Icon
206 - CSM Havocs x 6, MoCU, Autocannon x 4, Tank Hunters, Infiltrate, Icon

49 models with 151 points left over.

I would use the Slaneeshi Troops for mobile firepower and capturing objectives.  The Infiltrating troops would be used for counter-infiltration and anti-vehicle work (the Autocannon units would also double as anit-Infantry).  The lord would either be held back for counter-attacks or go on the offensive to engage small units or units contesting objectives.

A couple questions I'd like input on:
1) Should I equip the infiltrators with CCW & BP since they'll be closer to my opponent's troops?
2) Since I'm not running a pure Slaneeshi army and not concerned with Sacred Numbers or getting Asp. Champs, should I stick to a unit size of 6 or boost the size?

Thanks!

Well, for starters, your MoS bikers and havocs will be elites, as your lord doesn't have the MoS and marked squads can only have one veteran skill.

That said, 3 man biker squads have issues surviving long enough to do anything, and you want to have a nice champ in a bike squad to be able to threaten assault with it. Bikes also synergize with daemons, and you have none.

I prefer 8 man havoc squads for the extra ablation -- more wounds before a heavy weapon goes down.

Your non-infiltrating infantry squads may suffer from being excluded from a lot of the battle due to deployment.

Throw some more toys on the Lord; at least mutation and spikes.

Why does every squad have an icon but you have no daemons???

HQ: Take Resilience off the Lord, personally I think its somewhat redundant w/ stature

Elites: Take 1 squad of Termies w/ MoS. You can equip most (if not all of them) with sonic weapons

Troops: I'd think 2 squads of 8 should do it. Take some daemons

FA: 1 squad of bikers. 1 squad of daemonic beasts

Heavy: 2 squads of 6 Havocs/4 ACs should do it. Take a Defiler

Actually, if anything, stature is where resilience is most useful.

The jump from T5 to T6 is bigger in terms of actual effect than from T4 to T5. On a statured model, resilience halves the expected damage from S4 attacks -- anything that's S4 goes from needing a 5+ to wound to a 6+, which is a much bigger jump than going from 4+ to 5+ in the case of a non-statured model taking resilience. And, let's face it, seeing as how bolters and chainswords both put out S4 attacks, doubling your resistance to them is pretty handy. Of course, there are plenty of cases where it's not worthwhile (e.g., S3 attacks and S8+ attacks), but it's definitely not redundant on a statured model.

@Lowinor - Thanks for the input. I agree with you on adding Stature to a model. Given that it's only 10 points, it's a great deal. You explained that better than I could.

Your suggestions were quite helpful and I incorporated them into the list. Thanks for pointing out that applying MoS to those units made them Elites. I removed the Blast Master squad to make room for the others in the FOC.

@ ancientsociety - I like the Slaneeshi Terminators and eventually I'll put together a Lustwing army. Given the expense of the unit, I'd prefer to have the terminators or the bikers (not both). Since I changed up the troop selection and combined the biker squad, I think their role will become more defined. I've also drastically increased the number of Daemons and should be able to take advantage of the Icons.

As for your suggestion on the Defiler, I'm guessing you're suggesting it so I can deter my opponent's units from clumping? I was hoping the Blast Master unit would do that, but now that I don't have any template weapons, Maybe I should reconsider removing the BM unit...

Revisions marked with bold text. Hopefully it's not too distracting...

HQ
167 - CSM Lord w/ Flight, Resilience, Stature, Strength, Icon, Dread Axe, CCW, Frag, MoCU, Spiky Bitz

Elites
149 - Noise Marines x 6, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade x5, Blast Master, Icon
149 - Noise Marines x 6, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade x5, Blast Master, Icon
310 - CSM Bikers x 6, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade, Skilled Riders, Icon, Asp. Champ, Strength, Power Weapon


Troops
128 - CSM x 6, MoCU, Plasma x 2, Infiltrate, Icon
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6

Heavy
248 - CSM Havocs x 8, MoCU, Autocannon x 4, Tank Hunters, Infiltrate, Icon
248 - CSM Havocs x 8, MoCU, Autocannon x 4, Tank Hunters, Infiltrate, Icon

71 models with 4 points left over.

A couple questions I'd like input on:
1) Should I equip the infiltrators with CCW & BP since they'll be closer to my opponent's troops? Or is this all up to one's personal tastes? Will is matter with the addition of the Daemonettes?
2) Just to make sure I have this right, units with a mark do no need to pay for an Icon, but an Indepenant Character (with a mark) must pay 10 points for one, correct?
3) Should I consider removing some Daemonettes to add some fast-moving Daemonic Beasts or Mounted Daemonettes?

On a biker champ, a Lightning Claw costs the same as a Power Weapon and Deamonic Strength, but outperforms it against any target under T6.

Your understanding of icons (free for marked squads, 10 points for an IC) is correct by the typical convention. Strictly by the rules as written, marked ICs not attached to retinues appear to get free icons, but that's an artifact of changes in how "unit" is defined between 3rd edition (which spawned the current Chaos codex) and 4th edition, and would (in my opinion) be unseemly to take advantage of.

I usually only put pistols on squads that I have a champ in -- without that level of investment in assault, I'm generally going to try to keep their special weapons firing.

Again, you can't have two veteran skills on squads with a mark.

The biggest problem I see with the latest list is you have exactly two weapons that can glance a Monolith and none that can penetrate it; this, of course, isn't going to be a problem if you don't run in to a lot of Necrons, as you've got plenty of ways to crack non-Monolith AV14.

Lists like this do not go after the 'lith- they throw things (like damonettes) into the Necrons.
Godzilla 'nids are more troublesome- the lack of AP makes it tough. But throw enough daemonettes at any problem and it goes away ;-)

Why no MOS on the Lord? It is great in assault and makes the MoS units not go into Elites.
ANd, as mentioned, MoCU (like any mark) limits you to one Vet skill. So no Inf/TH MoCU Havocs.

Quick reply with promise of a longer one tomorrow.

Thanks for pointing out the Vet Skill in the Havoks (again). For some reason I was thinking the limit was one vet skill if they had a Mark of Khorne/Nurgle/Slaneesh/Tzeench and not MoCU. Newb mistake. Also, I'll look at replacing the Havok squads with Blast Master squads, probably 1 Havok and 2 Blast Masters...and to do this will require a MoS on the Lord. That should give me some nice anti-tank power and templaty death.

Posted By jmurph on 12/28/2006 5:18 PM
Lists like this do not go after the 'lith- they throw things (like damonettes) into the Necrons.
Godzilla 'nids are more troublesome- the lack of AP makes it tough. But throw enough daemonettes at any problem and it goes away ;-)

Why no MOS on the Lord? It is great in assault and makes the MoS units not go into Elites.
ANd, as mentioned, MoCU (like any mark) limits you to one Vet skill. So no Inf/TH MoCU Havocs.

Pssh, I said the "biggest" problem, not that it's really a huge problem, but it's nice to be able to fire a couple of lascannons at a 'lith if desired

As it stands, the list looks a lot like "Lowinor-pattern" Chaos -- swap out the Noise Marine squads for infiltrating las/plas, drop some of the daemons to fit in a Bloodthirster, and you have something pretty close to what I run for Chaos (save that I usually play at 1500 and omit the bikes at that point level).

It's a tough list.  The Monolith is really the only thing you don't have a good answer for with the above list.

Posted By Furious on 12/28/2006 3:26 PM

1) Should I equip the infiltrators with CCW & BP since they'll be closer to my opponent's troops? Or is this all up to one's personal tastes? Will is matter with the addition of the Daemonettes?
2) Just to make sure I have this right, units with a mark do no need to pay for an Icon, but an Indepenant Character (with a mark) must pay 10 points for one, correct?
3) Should I consider removing some Daemonettes to add some fast-moving Daemonic Beasts or Mounted Daemonettes?

Wow, demonettes all of a sudden!  Some more answers:

1. No, keep bolters.  With 2 plasmas you've got a close-range-fire-support role going for these guys, so keep the rapid firing 24" bolters in there too.  The demonettes care not either way, they just need the ikon

2. Right on both accounts.

3. I don't really think it's necessary, if you use your infiltrating undivided CSM, lord and bikers right.  It would be nice - for variety's sake as well as versatility - to get 6 mounted demonettes in there, but I'd only suggest it if you can find the points to only drop one foot demonette squad to get them.  Losing 2 girl squads for basically 1 mounted squad is a little much ... but scheming in 6 mounted ladies would be nice.

As to no MoS on the prince, it would be nice and all but wouldn't it force his noise marines to be Troops, thereby pushing demonettes out of that slot?  And does it mess with MoCU troops too?  Can't recall, but something to consider, if I'm remotely right.

Otherwise very neat list, I dig it a lot.  6 demonette squads are lovely, especially when used in concert with other CSM troops, and they can gut carnifex in one go, speaking from experience

Love to hear how you fair.

- Boss Salvage

@ Lowinor - Thanks for the info on Lightning Claws. I think this will be quite useful in the future.

@ jmurph - I missed having the MoS on my Lord as well and I think I've found a way to make it all work.

@ Boss_Salvage - Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions - it cleared many things up for me. I agree wth you on the Daemonette Cavalry. Somehow I managed to fit them in...I just hope my math is correct.

As far as issues with a Lord with MoS leading a Chaos Undivided army, I don't think there are any unless I'm trying to add Khorneate units (so no Bloodthirster). Nurgle and Tzeench are okay.

HQ
172 - CSM Lord w/ Flight, Resilience, Stature, Strength, Icon, Dread Axe, CCW, Frag, Spiky Bitz, MoS

Elites
(None)

Troops
128 - CSM x 6, MoCU, Plasma x 2, Infiltrate, Icon
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6

Fast Attack
298 - CSM Bikers x 6, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade, Icon, Asp. Champ, Lightning Claw x 1, Frag
168 - Daemonette Cav x 6

Heavy
242 - CSM Havocs x 8, Autocannon x 4, Tank Hunters, Infiltrate, Icon
192 - Noise Marine Havocs x 6, MoS, Blast Master x 3, Tank Hunters, Icon
192 - Noise Marine Havocs x 6, MoS, Blast Master x 3, Tank Hunters, Icon

69 models with 8 points left over.

I think with this list it will be important to deploy the infiltrators cautiously as there are only two of them and they could get overwhelmed before the Daemonettes are ready to summon. As this is a Chaos undivided list, the Daemonettes won't have a modified roll...thoughtful deployment becomes even more important. BTW, it would cost roughly 43 points to upgrade the Marine and Havoc units and make this a pure Slaneeshi army.

I would look to trade out 2 units of Demonettes for one unit of Mounted Demonettes. From my experience, relying on the infiltrating units to deploy your demons can be very tricky. Terrain can really dictate where you set up. To close and you can get swamped or shot up too early; too far and it becomes hard for your Demonettes to get into assault the turn they arrive. The Mounted Demonettes have such a range of attack that allows you to set up w/o overexposing your unit.

If you play in comp style tourneys, I'd recommend looking at running an all Slaanesh army, otherwise not a big deal. Fully done Emperor's Children armies look very striking on the table (although the ones I've liked are not pink and black).

Good luck.

@ Sarigar - Thanks for the input. I agree, the extra cav will help out. I'll make some changes and add the speedsters. Now I'll have to figure out where I can move some points to make this an all Slaneeshi army. If I can't, I might have to take the MoS off of the Lord and replace it with a MoCU again...that will give me the option of going with some Khornate bikers or a Bloodthirster if need be.

Here's the latest incarnation of the list:

HQ
172 - CSM Lord w/ Flight, Resilience, Stature, Strength, Icon, Dread Axe, CCW, Frag, Spiky Bitz, MoS

Elites
(None)

Troops
128 - CSM x 6, MoCU, Plasma x 2, Infiltrate, Icon
128 - CSM x 6, MoCU, Plasma x 2, Infiltrate, Icon
90 - Daemonette x 6
90 - Daemonette x 6

Fast Attack
280 - CSM Bikers x 6, MoS, Sonic Blaster Upgrade, Icon, Asp. Champ, Lightning Claw x 1, Frag
168 - Daemonette Cav x 6
168 - Daemonette Cav x 6

Heavy
242 - CSM Havocs x 8, Autocannon x 4, Tank Hunters, Infiltrate, Icon
192 - Noise Marine Havocs x 6, MoS, Blast Master x 3, Tank Hunters, Icon
192 - Noise Marine Havocs x 6, MoS, Blast Master x 3, Tank Hunters, Icon

63 models with 14 points left over.

I've started work on some of the models. Since I'm cheap (or because I don't want to give GW too much of my hard-earned money), I'm going to model this army as pre-Heresy or Heresy-era...I'm hoping I can use some of the models for a Space Marines army in the future.

The approach here wil be to model this list as Emperor's Children as they're starting to make the change to Chaos. I'll be using regular Space Marine models for the bolter-toters while the models carrying Slaneeshi weapons (Sonic Blasters and Blast Masters) will have more of a chaos influence. The chaos-tainted marines obviously wouldn't be used in a Space Marines army, but the others could...

Anyway, I would appreciate thoughts on the list or the modeling concept. thanks!

Posted By Furious on 01/02/2007 10:20 AM
Heavy
242 - CSM Havocs x 8, Autocannon x 4, Tank Hunters, Infiltrate, Icon

Just a heads up, these guys don't have an ikon any more, as they've lost their MoCU to get more skillz

That aside, I like what you've changed up, and you've really solidifed your army into two forces: a fire power contingent made up of havoks and front-deployed plasma-totting CSM squads; and a speed contingent of bikers and prince, combined with those fast demon cav.  The foot 'nettes will likely end up spawning off of the speed wing and recking havok within the enemy lines ...

Good stuff, I really like it.  Look forward to how you're going to model "pre-heresy" demons & prince and such.  As to taking the Thirster and other Khorne elements, I'd rather you didn't unless you're really going to persue an Undivided force with other Chaos god elements as well ... but that's me.

- Boss Salvage

I'm starting slaaneshi chaos as well and I'll be using a lot of vanilla bits. I like how plain and unadorned they are. I can add detail later, but to start I want a "clean" surface to work with.

I don't like the pink and black color combo either. It looks good, but I already play black templars and it would be boring to paint another set of models like that. I'm thinking of going with a royal purple with gold trim (Old school EC) or royal purple and silver.

Thanks for the replies. I must be doing something right because I haven't gotten (m)any negative comments on this list. No all I have to do is figure out a conversion for the Daemonette Cav. There's no way I'm paying $12 a model...

Looks pretty solid. Just remember no summoning from the unmarked Havocs.

I painted mine in purple and gold and modelled them along the lines of Heresy era, so some spikes and bitz, but nothing too OTT. White was used for iconography and honor markings (helm stripes, gauntlets, leg plates, etc.) with a few starting to sport black plates. Alot of Space Marine parts mixed in, especially helmets (the CSM helmets get pretty goody- I took the horns off several and they look much better). For CCWs, I swapped fantasy Dark Elf swords for many of the chainswords because they looked much sleeker. The daemonettes I alternated purple flesh with white hair for one squad, pale skin with purple and pink hair for another, and pale skin with black hair for the third.
For bikes, I am planning to use the Dark Eldar bikes with a bit of modification to reflect the earlier anti-grav tech bikes.

Mounted daemonettes are horribly expensive. You can get old steeds of Slaanesh and crabclaw chicks for fairly cheap, but they are ugly. I would recommend considering some more standard cavalry with female riders- perhaps wood elves with maybe some head swaps? I've also always wanted to use Cold Ones for something.....

A pretty solid list. I'm building an EC army now and have found Combat Drugs definitively worth the points. Additionally, Doom Siren is a great deal and doesn't count towards your weapons allotment (per the FAQ).

To get a few extra points, I'd lose a couple Sonic Blasters from your bike squad. They are nice, but for the amount of points spent on them, I doubt their real job is to be a medium range S4 shooter.

Otherwise, very good looking list.