a question came up today in a game i was playing.  i had two units of marines (both with counterassault) in cover.  my friend's two units of marines charged my two units, and the entirety of the charge was blocked on both sides by a pair of land raiders.  his assault moves were not split, so these were effectively two separate combats.

after contacting my units and getting as many of his models into contact with mine as possible, i still had several unengaged models in both squads.  counterassault ability happens.

1) do i have to roll a difficult terrain test for my counterassaulting models if they move through cover? (the rulebook says to treat this move like an assault move with a couple exceptions)

2) do the counterassaulting models strike last against my friend's models that were in cover at the time of the counterassault ability going off?

3) does the fact that a combat already exists, and my models are charging into it, negate the ability of my friend's models to strike at initiative 10 before my counterassaulting models?

4) can i split my 'counterassault' by charging multiple units?

5) ...and how exactly am i supposed to view the counterassault rule?  is it even supposed to be an 'assault move' or is it more of a pre-combat pile-in move that ignores models and terrain?

Posted By Wayfarer on 01/06/2007 1:06 AM
1) and 5) "Treat the counter-attack as you would an Assault move, so take terrain into account as normal." (p. 74 BGB)

2) and 3) The rules state that a unit being charged while in cover gets to strike at initiative 10. Your counter-attack is not a charge, it is only treated as an assault move for the purposes of moving your models. Every model in your unit that can strike does so at initiative 10 on the first turn of the assault, counter-attack or no.

4) You are simply obligated to get as many models into b2b as possible, so if you were charged by two units you are simply obligated to get as many models into b2b, multiple units or not.

for your 1&5 response:

it says "treat the counterattacks as an assault move" which implies that i can do all the things that i could do during an assault move.

for your 2&3 response:

what part of the rules proves your point here?

for your 4 response:

i can accept this.  it does, however, rub me the wrong way because of how i understand the original intent of the counterassault rules.  originally they were meant to get all the models into BtB.  then people started charging units to bring them closer, then charging them again...so the counterassault move was changed to work after all charging models had been declared.  so in the situation that i mentioned, having some of my models denied their counterassault ability due to all the charging models blocking their movement seems strange.

Posted By Wayfarer on 01/07/2007 1:29 AM
1) It appears that we agree and that everything is clear. Glad I could be of help.

2) and 3) My basis is in the rules for charging a unit in cover found on page 39 of the bgb in which it states that the benefit of initiative 10 is granted only to those models who were in cover and then charged. Your unit did not charge, thus his unit does not gain that advantage.

1 - no we don't, and it's not.

2 - you are obviously missing something.

unit A is in cover, and unit B charges them in cover.  unit A's models counterattack.  since you treat unit A's counterattack move like an assault move (per the rules), then all the options and rules affording a charging unit become available to them.  unit A models would have to roll a difficult terrain test.  unit A models could then charge another unit.  unit A models would charge back into cover to assault unit B, and since unit B is already in combat they wouldn't get the benefit of being in cover.

so EVERY facet of making an assault move and dealing with its results are implied by the wording of counterattack?      

1) The rules say to treat it as you would an assault move and (this is the answer right here) take terrain into account. So yes you have to roll for difficult terrain. Unless you have an ability which would ignore difficult terrain, and from the wording in Move Through Cover, it appears that it applies anytime you move through difficult terrain even if it an assault move.

5) It doesn't ignore terrain, and it's more similar to a pile in based on what your unit is doing. It doesn't ignore models and terrain.


2) and 3) Yes, I must be missing something because you don't understand that either a unit charges or it doesn't. No where in the counter-attack rules does it state that your unit is charging. Your oponent charges and you have some special rules in regards to recieving said charge. The rules for charging a unit in cover explicitely say that the unit being charged gains the initiative bonus. Your unit never declared a charge, his did.