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For those Chaos players out there who don't run Fearless armies, I think I stumbled on to a pretty good counter to the boo power. I've lost a fair number of my lesser demons b/c of this very power and was trying to see how to counter it.

For 105 points, I can take a squad of 5 Flesh Hounds. Not an overly great unit, but the Collar of Khorne each of them wear can extend a bubble protection against FotD. If they are in the area of effect of the psychic power, they have the ability to cancel out the power on a roll of 2+.

Does this seem like a viable tactic? I know a lot of variables come into play, but it seems to be a way of not taking LD6 tests for my Demonettes.

 

 

It's a questionable rules interpretation. Most opponents are going to want to play it that the collar prevents the power from affecting that unit.

Also there's the problem that (1) the hounds start in reserve, so it'll be turn 2 or 3 before they can have any effect at all and (2) the marine player can just shoot up the hound unit before using the power.

Flavius, I would have thought that such opponents would quickly be referred to the part of Collar rules that say 'or include him (the bearer) in their area of effect'. If the Hounds fall under the template, they're affected.

Or am I missing something?

Totally agree on your other points, though.

You could also argue that since demons "Do not Fall Back" as described in the description of the power "Fear of the Darkness", they are hence not affected by it at all.

 

Edit:  Yes I am aware its a point of contention, not trying to start a war here.

The effective use I've seen with FotD is coming from a Drop Pod. Therefore, the Librarian won't be there at least until turn 2. It is a gamble with demon summoning, always is.


Relevant text (pg 47 Chaos Codex 1st printing)
"...and psychic abilities that target the wearer OR (emphasis mine) include him in their area of effect are nullified and will not work on a D6 roll of 2+."

What part is questionable? The area of effect of the the power is 12" from the Librarian. If a model w/ the CoK is within the 12", it seems perfectly reasonable the power can be nullified on a 2+ per its' description. The rulebook does not give a hard and fast definition of 'area of effect', so I can't really see that being argued either. Granted, the explanation is pretty broad as it only states the power is nullified and will not work. But, it seems it simply states you nullify the psychic power on a 2+ by its' wording.

Shooting the hounds. Well, yeah. On the rare occasion that I've used them, they typically ended up in assault the turn they arrive due to their movement. Now, I've lost them in assault, but shooting typically wasn't a big issue.

Regarding the 'do not fall back' part. The power states they take a Morale test (which equates Instability for my demons). I'm not going to read anything further than that into the rule. I bow down and roll my instability rolls when my opponent unleashes FotD. I won't dispute that contention at all.

Without addressing how a collar actually affects the power, I just want to stand by my statement that some opponents will likely contest the idea that the collar cancels out the power, instead preferring to read the rule as saying that it just doesn't affect the hounds. For tournament play, I tend to prefer to avoid this kind of controversy because of its effect on sports scores, but your results may vary.

I prefer to pick a solution that doesn't depend on so many situational variables.

I was assuming also that the librarian would arrive by drop pod most of the time in my comments.

Collars of Khorne are only 5 points on a berserker (or berserker biker) Aspiring Champion (or Lord, or Lieutenant, for that matter)... Word Bearers is the only list which can take the hounds but not the Khorne-marked troops, so some manner of Khorne-marked squad may be a better way to get the collar in play.

The other thing to realize is that FotD only works on units that are not locked in assault, and if you have a lot of daemons not locked in assault in your opponent's shooting phase, you have more to worry about than losing a couple of them to FoTD, generally speaking, at least.

Flavius-Fair enough. I can understand comp issues.

For armies that can take Flesh Hounds: Word Bearers, Black Legion, Alpha Legion and of course World Eaters.

I agree that if the demons aren't in assault, you have lots to worry about. I tend to see this happen late in the game, usually after the demons have hit a unit or two. Decent opponents will space units far enough apart so as to not get consolidated into. However, I've lost demons to stranger things, Tank Shock being one of them.

It's not some uber tactic, but having faced FotD (especially from Tigerius), it can get ugly. You can always have a bad scatter, be out of LOS to guns, but still get hit by this power.

Good points all.

Sarigar - if you are having problems with a Tigerius-based FoTD, please read Mauleed's posts about how the FoTD is a 12" area of effect, not a 12" range - therefore Tigerius does not double it. That is an important point to your discussion of the CoK,of course also, because if it is considered a range, instead of an area of effect, then the CoK is useless to protect the models without the CoK.

I agree that is considered area of effect. Personally, I agree that it should not double the range for an area of effect, however, I am a bit in the minority where I'm at. Not a big deal as I don't run into Ultramarine players often. Regular Space Marines are something I play against in casual play as well as tourney play. I don't expect problems with the FotD being a range weapon as it does not have 'range' indicated like some other psychic powers.

Thanks for the feedback.

Hmm. How much of this is missing? According a RAW reading, this could be used to nullify Synapse or Psi Scream, as long as they were in the area of effect. I guess you could also say it could nullify Shadow in the Warp too.

Hehe, if you can nullify Synapse that might be quite interesting indeed...

Posted By Antonin on 01/08/2007 8:42 AM
Sarigar - if you are having problems with a Tigerius-based FoTD, please read Mauleed's posts about how the FoTD is a 12" area of effect, not a 12" range - therefore Tigerius does not double it.

*coughs* Ummm...That was me that made that post

Posted By Antonin on 01/08/2007 8:42 AM
That is an important point to your discussion of the CoK,of course also, because if it is considered a range, instead of an area of effect, then the CoK is useless to protect the models without the CoK.

If that were the case it would also be useless to protect the models with the CoK since FotD doesn't "target" anything.

Posted By Antonin on 01/08/2007 8:42 AM
Sarigar - if you are having problems with a Tigerius-based FoTD, please read Mauleed's posts about how the FoTD is a 12" area of effect, not a 12" range - therefore Tigerius does not double it. That is an important point to your discussion of the CoK,of course also, because if it is considered a range, instead of an area of effect, then the CoK is useless to protect the models without the CoK.

I agree that when discussing the CoK that you need to consider range and area of effect.  Units with the CoK are much better off than those without.  Also remember its not the size of the CoK, its how you use it.

My CoK has nothing to fear from the dark.

Well, I've got a tourney this weekend. I'm going to try it out and see if I get the right matchup. Hopefully, no one will be so p'oed at me to tank my Sportsmanship.

Hell, it's a tough power to defend against anyways.

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 01/10/2007 5:19 AM

Posted By Antonin on 01/08/2007 8:42 AM
That is an important point to your discussion of the CoK,of course also, because if it is considered a range, instead of an area of effect, then the CoK is useless to protect the models without the CoK.

If that were the case it would also be useless to protect the models with the CoK since FotD doesn't "target" anything.

If it is a "range" then the CoK does nothing (insert viagra joke here) but as an area of effect,  the CoK is effective (it applies if it's wearer  is targeted or is in the area of effect.

Well, there's no range listed on FotD like there is with the other power (forget name) that states Range: 12".