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Hello, I'm thinking about entering with Chaos to the GT this year. Let me know what you think of this list.

HS
8 Havocs w/ MoCu, 2 Autocannons, 2 missile launchers, tankhunters

8 Havocs w/ MoCu, 2 Autocannons, 2 missile launchers, tankhunters

T
8 Chaos Marines w/ MoCu, Missile Launcher, Plasmagun, 5 bolters, aspiring champ w/ powerfist, boltpistol

8 chaos marines w/ MoCu, Infiltrate, 2 Meltaguns, 5 BPCCW, aspiring champ w/ powerfist, boltpistol, mutation, teleport homer

6 flamers

6 flamers

E
5 Chosen w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Terminator armor, 5 gifts of change, power weapons, combi-bolters

HQ
Demon Prince w/ MoCu, CCW, Dreadaxe, Stature, Strength, Flight, Mutation, Aura, Teleport Homer

FA
10 Furies

Total 1750pts, 60 models

What are your thoughts?
Some of the tactics im thinking about depends on the army i am facing, but if there is a difficult character/monstrous creature to deal with, I can send my prince after them, and then deepstrike my chosen with their gifts of change

the flamers are there to provide some fire support, and the furies are one of my counterattack units

Thanks for looking

You play loyalists prior to you playing chaos?

Posted By the_trooper on 01/26/2007 10:03 AM
You play loyalists prior to you playing chaos?

You say that because of the empasis on fire support, with most assault elements being counter-attak or deep struck terminators ...?

On the list, I like it, and actually couldn't think of much to critique or change.  So I offer comments instead, by force org category:

HQ - Nasty big prince, and you've taken the perfect mix of marine / terminator killing kit.  Only essence and spiky bitz are missing in my mind, but that's 25 points you don't necessarily have.  Maybe a personal ikon would be good too, but your demons don't need to be up close to hit the enemy hardest, so meh.

Elites - Honestly, I'm still not 100% here.  You plan on deep striking them, then skipping into combat range, where you spawn up a huge bodyguard of spawn and go a-rampaging?  I like the gifting up a spawn guard bit, but 5 terminators that cost 66 each (right? GoC is 20?) and have to be subjected to an army's fire for a turn?  And what about when you can't strike in?  AND not 1 powerfist in the mix?  I like it, think it's a neat unit, but perhaps it needs more thinking out - like dropping 2 gifts (+40), giving the prince the above kit (-25) and the termies some kill kit (2 fists -10, combiweapon -5).

Troops - Big squads with fists, w00t.  Nothing to change here really.  Mad props for the flamers, I love 6-strong squads of them myself.

Fast - 10 Furies seems like a bit too many, but your call.  30 S5 attaks can't be sneezed at, and this is a good demon given how static 1/2 of your army is.

Heavy - Good havoks, like the mix of weapons.  4 S8 & 2 S9 tank shots is gooood stuff.

So really only the terminators strike me as a bit "off," but mostly in your choice of kit.  I think arming them differently will do you good - 1 terminator w/ gift & combi-melta (5 points?), 2 terminators w/ gift & powerfist, 2 terminators w/ nothing special.

- Boss Salvage

I say it because it is built similar to a loyalist one but with Daemons.

I have this weird thing with mixing weapons in havocs. I tend to not like it. I used to swear by missile launchers but dont any more. The blast isnt much of a help and a lascannon can vape things better/ easier. Missle launchers are cheaper than lascannons though.

I guess something that confuses me are the asp champs. One is obviously with a squad that doesnt have an intention of move or most if not all the weapons become useless that round depending on range. This is why a 2 plasma option in a rhino should not be overlooked.

I like then furies a lot since Furies are one of those squads that must kill everything or they are screwed. They cant take a beating and at Ld 7 you need to win combat or thet will surely take instability checks.

I'm not sure if I have a point, just observation about the list which is why it was posted.

Posted By the_trooper on 01/26/2007 11:19 AM

I guess something that confuses me are the asp champs. One is obviously with a squad that doesnt have an intention of move or most if not all the weapons become useless that round depending on range. This is why a 2 plasma option in a rhino should not be overlooked.

Good comment on the Furies, I can agree with that.  On the AC in the shooty CSM squad, I wanted to axe it at first, but I thought about where they'd likely be most of a game.  Hypothetically, the 2 havoks grab spots in cover or such, and the shooty CSM add into that firebase, with no intention of moving most of the game.  While the rest of the army infiltrates / flies / summons / strikes about far away on the board, not much is going to be available to protect the firebase besides those 3 units that make it up.  Having a fist in there is only a good thing, with all the enemy strikers, etc.  Alternatively, the squad could deploy more aggresively, creating a base to summon flamers off of and having a fist as back-up to the primary wave of assault troops.

That said, I think I'd suggest using the 5 points from the termies (that I had assigned to combi-weapons) and upgrade the missile launcher to a lascannon.  May as well keep the AP2 in that squad's weapons, and it also gives you the only natural S9 weapon in your army, against monoliths and big non-vehicles (FEX).

... You know, I just realized that you don't have enough points open on your lord to take essence, as that would be 115 points in gifts.  I'd still throw spiky bitz on him, but that leaves 15 points that I don't know what to do with.  Furious charge on the prince?  Always a favorite of mine, and would make him S7 I6 A6 on the charge

- Boss Salvage

thanks for the tips guys! i took out mutation on the asp champ and stuck a chainfist on one of the chosen.

honestly tho, the chosen are meant for one thing. rapid response. one of my plans was to have the demon prince go after something big and nasty, hold it for the turn, and then deepstrike the termies close, so i can Gift of Change whatever it was fighting. The amount of gifts is only present because i need all i can get to pull it off. And people are usually surprised when their carnifexes and wraithlords turn into spawns!

@ boss- Im actually converting dryads into flamers (greenstuffing flames on them) which i thought would look cool, and its cost effective

@ trooper- I have played loyalist marines a few times, but i was using my friend's army to see how i liked them. This list is just based off my idea for a good fire support (scalpel), and then the counter attack (the hammer).

I will have to play a few people before I truly commit to it, but i think its a decent starting point.

Seeing as how the demon prince will be going after big stuff, i deemed it unnecessary to give him an extra wound. or a personal icon at that. You are correct in saying that the demons wont need to initially be close to be effective.

I do have a monolith problem. (no pun intended ). I could drop a Gift of Change to get a lascannon or two....but....it wouldnt be terribly effective and it would most likely compromise my ability to GoC big creatures.

If all goes to pot, i can just drop a flamer squad, which would give me room to deal with the big bad tanks of the 41st millenium, but i'd rather not.

Any other ideas?

updated list! hopefully, changes i have made will be bolded

HS
8 Havocs w/ MoCu, 2 Autocannons, 2 lascannons, tankhunters

8 Havocs w/ MoCu, 2 Autocannons, 2 lascannons, tankhunters

T
8 Chaos Marines w/ MoCu, Missile Launcher, Plasmagun, 5 bolters, aspiring champ w/ powerfist, boltpistol

8 chaos marines w/ MoCu, Infiltrate, 2 Meltaguns, 5 BPCCW, aspiring champ w/ powerfist, boltpistol, teleport homer

9 flamers

E
5 Chosen w/ Mark of Tzeentch, Terminator armor, 5 gifts of change, power weapons, 1 chainfist combi-bolters

HQ
Demon Prince w/ MoCu, CCW, Dreadaxe, Stature, Strength, Flight, Mutation, Aura, Teleport Homer, spiky bits

FA
10 Furies

Total 1749pts, 57 models

that should be right. less models, more anti-tank, less anti-troop.....hmm.....

we will see...