DE Archon on Skyboard Movement

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**Saldiven**

Interesting debate going on on Warseer on this subject (not good at hyperlinking, or I'd link to it).

In a nutshell, they are discussing whether or not a DE Archon/Dracon equipped with a Hellion Skyboard can FoF and/or use the 12" Assault CD effect.

Pertinent facts as follows:

1. Archons/Dracons have FoF.

2. The unit entry for Hellions do not have FoF.

3. The unit entry for Reavers do not have FoF.

4. There is a FAQ clarification stating that IC's equipped with a Reaver Jetbike may neither FoF nor use the 12" Assault CD effect.

5. There is no restriction in the Wargeer entry for the Hellion Skyboard nor in the FAQ that prevents an IC from using its normally accessible improved movement modes (such as FoF or the 12" Assault move), as there is for the Reaver Jetbike.

6. There is an assertion that the precedent established by not allowing the Reaver unit entry and IC's equipped with a Reaver Jetbike wargear item to FoF or 12" Assault should be extended to IC's equipped with a Hellion Skyboard Wargear item, as this would be consistent with the "spirit" of the Reaver Jetbike FAQ and the fact that the Hellion unit entry may not FoF or gain advantage of the 12" Assault.

I'm pretty sure I have incorporated the meat of the argument here, though it is pretty easy to find on Warseer if anyone wants to see all of it (someone good at hyper-linking would be appreciated .

Any comments? What's the call?

Sal.

PS. I think this debate is based in the fact that allowing the Archon/Skyboard combination its additional movement modes would allow for a 25"-30" charge range right off the bat for the IC. Some people don't like that

**Mannahnin**

Welcome to playing with Dark Eldar. Haven't done it before?

You have laid out the argument and the details well. Technically, as you have shown, the skyboard Archon CAN fleet, but it seems a bit nasty and unfluffy, so many folks point to the Reaver and say "it should work like that!"

This issue has been unresolved by GW, exactly as you laid it out for, seriously, I don't know how many years now. It's been exactly like this since the DE codex was resolved, what? Three years ago?

And I'm pretty sure the issue existed before that- probably going back to the FAQ for the original DE codex, which was released more like five or six years ago. No joke.

**jesterzdragon**

As a DE player and someone writing the 40k online FAQ for DE, this is a topic that we are leaving to the player to debate the whole spirit of the rules and RAW debate.

The Hellion Skyboard is a piece of wargear that is available to many squad upgrades and characters(Incubi Master with a 2+ save). It states that for game terms treat it like a jump pack. So, people like that they have rules to back up the fact that a jump pack is on the ground part of the time and can thus FoF.

Of course the 12" assault drug was replaced for both Hellions and RJB's as crazed.

But, the RAW allow this nasty combo. I would ask for a ruling in a tournament, and not use it myself.

The DE faq only adds to the debate because it ignores the skyboard for everything but staying in coherency, so the Incubi Master combo cannot be in a raider type of deal.

But ponder this, if you deepstrike with the Skyboard, you could then FoF in your shooting phase to get around not being able to move. Sure its not that broken, but it could help you hide. By the RAW FoF is not movement it is forgoing your shooting to fleet.

Hopefully this and many more issues will be addressed in the upcoming DE codex slated for the next few years.

**Augustus**

I am a known critic of DE, and even I will say that it's obvious, the lord can fleet, because thats what's in the RAW.

12 inch assault already comes with combat drugs anyway, and combined with fleet, and possibly transportation this isn't really any better than various other delivery methods of HQ T1 charge. 12 inch setup onto the board, 12 inch transport move, 2 inch deployment, 3.5 inch fleet avg, 12 inch charge is a 41.5 inch charge anywhere on the board without a skyboard, and potentially 45 inches, they can already do this without a skyboard. Kind of old news.

To those who try and construct an intent argument based on other unit limits, that's all fabricated argument, it doesn't matter what the limits on other units may or may not be, only what they wrote for the HQ and the wargear. Play it as it's written and dismiss the intent arguments for the drivel they are.

EDIT: Made a mistaken assesment on DS not shooting previously, point 2 removed.

**Polonius**

Why wouldn't the deepstriking archon get to shoot? Deepstrikers can't move or assault, but they can shoot.

**Augustus**

Re evaluated, you're right.

**Hellfury**

Yeah this issue is indeed old as dirt, almost ten years old in fact.

Sadly GW refuses to remark on this. Even the new eldar codex, by RaW, allows fleeting with jetbikes.

No one I know plays it this way, as it is obviously slowed, but the fact remains since GW is pushing RaW so strongly, I like to think it will bite them on the ass in the not-so-distant-future because people will be fleeting with skyboards and jetbikes.

My advice, go ahead and fleet with it, especially if your group is cool with it.

*grumble* even though the lord is obviosly not able to utilize his skyboard/jetbike to move with his feet. Just imagine him looking like a grown up straddling a trike and just picking it up and walking with it, or just lugging said items across his back, both are equally humourous/inane.

**jesterzdragon**

/devils advocate

I'm just going to mount all my IC's on skyboards that are placed on their back like jump packs. Then it will makes sense right?

The Archon is clever and figures out that it's just a jump pack, so he can fly into battle without the death trap of a raider. He even gets a nifty jink save when his personal field goes out and an extra +1 to his armor. So by being clever and mounting it on his back, he can send the Hellions to the slave pens and use their boards for his Haemonculi. The haemmies of course mount them on their back and fleet of foot all over the field just because they can.

The reason why people will use skyboards over RJB's and a Raider is because it is cheaper and slightly more flexible. If this were allowed(i.e spelled out in the rules instead of being left out) then it would be the best delivery method. Deepstrike where allowed, ok that isn't that great, but it's another option especially if you try it and come in on the last turn. You deepstrike to a corner to capture or contest. The extra +1 to saves and a jink save is nice to boot. The shooting for a lord is sad, spinter pistol is it, so why not fleet? Move 12", fleet 1-6", Assault 12" with drugs, not to mention you started 12" into the deployment zone. Then you are protected by the IC rules if you put him anywhere near your other squads.

What is interesting is that the rules go out of their way to not allow WWP's on RJB's and skyboards, but only define the fleet rule for Hellions. It is in the spirit of the jetbikes that they cannot fleet. You are strapped in, your not going to drag the bike. But, if the skyboard is just a jump pack per the RAW, then you could fleet, why do you need a ruling?

**Hellfury**

Posted By jesterzdragon on 02/06/2007 5:08 PM
/devils advocate

I'm just going to mount all my IC's on skyboards that are placed on their back like jump packs. Then it will makes sense right?

The Archon is clever and figures out that it's just a jump pack, so he can fly into battle without the death trap of a raider. He even gets a nifty jink save when his personal field goes out and an extra +1 to his armor. So by being clever and mounting it on his back, he can send the Hellions to the slave pens and use their boards for his Haemonculi. The haemmies of course mount them on their back and fleet of foot all over the field just because they can.

The reason why people will use skyboards over RJB's and a Raider is because it is cheaper and slightly more flexible. If this were allowed(i.e spelled out in the rules instead of being left out) then it would be the best delivery method. Deepstrike where allowed, ok that isn't that great, but it's another option especially if you try it and come in on the last turn. You deepstrike to a corner to capture or contest. The extra +1 to saves and a jink save is nice to boot. The shooting for a lord is sad, spinter pistol is it, so why not fleet? Move 12", fleet 1-6", Assault 12" with drugs, not to mention you started 12" into the deployment zone. Then you are protected by the IC rules if you put him anywhere near your other squads.

What is interesting is that the rules go out of their way to not allow WWP's on RJB's and skyboards, but only define the fleet rule for Hellions. It is in the spirit of the jetbikes that they cannot fleet. You are strapped in, your not going to drag the bike. But, if the skyboard is just a jump pack per the RAW, then you could fleet, why do you need a ruling?

Why need a ruling? Probably for common sense. They guy is zipping around the field like the green goblin, and yet he can suddenly dismount and run? Not too far fetched I admit, but it also isnt too far from silly either.

But as it stands, to me, fleeting with a skyboard is just as silly as it is to fleet with a jetbike. By RaW both are legal.

The only way I can rationalize this being legal in my mind is that the lord has access to superior tech than does the average schmo. His skyboard/jetbike is a superior type who has juiced up engines, fueled by the blood of newborn babies, mini warp drive, etc. Hence not using "fleet of foot" as the rules say, but when he is mounted he has "fleet of vehicular manslaughter" or "fleet of the death of common sense". Either way, they all allow an extra D6 of movement in the shooting phase no matter what you call it.

Thats the only thing that keeps me from strangling GW with their own "Use RaW, its the best way to go" copout.

**yakface**

Hellfury,

FYI, DE jetbikes are FAQ'd so that characters cannot fleet with a jetbike.

But I know what you're saying: in the new Eldar codex, by the RAW, characters on bikes may fleet.

**jesterzdragon**

So, special new rocket fuel secret ingrediants revealed!

It could be visualized with the board skimming nap of the earth and the Archon gaining more speed by pushing off with his foot like Michael J Fox in Back to the Future Part 2. I mean if MJF can do it, surely the soul sucking terror that is one of the nastiest cc monsters could right?

Hellions not being able to fleet seals it for me, I mean they are wyches and can't fleet. How horribly lame Hellions are, fleet would not make them much better, but they are a subsect of wyches and both wyches and warpbeast/beastmaster can fleet, while Reavers and Hellions cannot.

But, it is not such a stretch to see the skyboard like a advanced hovering skateboard. If someone wants to do it, by the RAW go for it. If enough people do it, then maybe they change it in the new dex, or update it or the reason it is not being FAQ'd is because it is legal. In my experience, people say DE are cheesy anyway, what will they do...say that DE are cheesier? The fact of the matter is DE have a lot of units that are very useful and quite a few that are not. However, after I play someone who has no respect for DE or calls them cheesy with an army with no Archon, Shadowfield or cheap tricks, that makes my day.

Yakface, I do not see the reference in the FAQ to not fleeting on a bike. It only refers to special movement of the bike/board in reference to a squad.

The FAQ for DE actually by ommission supports the Skyboard fleeting query as it specifically states for everything else by name and not skyboards.

**yakface**

Posted By jesterzdragon on 02/06/2007 8:24 PM

Yakface, I do not see the reference in the FAQ to not fleeting on a bike. It only refers to special movement of the bike/board in reference to a squad.

Oop, my bad.

It's actually in the revised ( "2nd edition" ) DE codex. It says that models on Jetbikes may not fleet.

**Hellfury**

Posted By yakface on 02/06/2007 8:54 PM

Oop, my bad.

It's actually in the revised ( "2nd edition" ) DE codex. It says that models on Jetbikes may not fleet.

Ahh makes sense now. its been a long time since I have played DE, but do recall some weird wording going on. I really should pick up the revised codex.

**jesterzdragon**

Yes, in the special fleet of foot rules it does state that. I'm surprised that this is not in the New Eldar codex, I do not have it yet, so I cannot pour over it to check.

Normally its just a cut and paste with names changed.

To Hellfury:
I have like 5 old DE dexes and one new 2nd edition. I have the GW official update pdf as well if you just want to use that Hellfury.

**Polonius**

Am the only person not disturbed by fleet of jetbike/skyboard? the new fleet universal rule seems to imply that the unit is simply faster than similar units, whether they're on foot, flying, or cavalry. Vespids and Gargoyles have always moved as jetpacks while retaining fleet. This isn't a RAW argument, of course, but I think that more people have a gut reaction to fleeting riders than any actual tactics/balance issue would expect.

**jesterzdragon**

Honestly any DE general worth their salt is going to get his Archon stuck in very quickly and unscathed.

The skyboard is only an issue because I am writing the FAQ for DE and the camps are heavily entrenched. I think its certainly feasible and within the rules. As pointed out it really does not differ from the Raider deployment method.

If it was spelled out I would have no problem using it, I might do it anyway just to prove its not broken. Although fleeting after deepstriking seems a tad out of spirit , but fleeting is special in of itself, so all in all not that bad.

To go to arms as a DE player I would scream that we are supposed to be the fastest, now every bike in the world gets the turbo boost, and well what do we get? Some marines fleeting, come on, what is left to be original. Hopefully the new codex will tell.