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I'm stumped for what to do with my Black Templars Marshal.

I keep seeing him underperform, but when I add upgrades to him, I become hesitant to use a 180 point model, for fear of relinquishing easy VPs. My current incarnation is as follows:

Marshal - 180 pts
Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Adamantine Mantle, Comat Shield, Terminator Honors, Holy Orb of Antioch

He is attached to a command squad to the tune of 230 pts:

Command Squad - 230 pts
Veteran Sergeant w/ Terminator Honors, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol
Company Champion w/ Power Axe, Combat Shield, Bolt Pistol
Initiate (2) w/ Meltagun
Initiate (6) w/ Bolt Pistol, Chainsword

My question for you is this: is this squad an effective unit as a standalone piece (disregard the rest of my army for this discussion), or is it ineffective as an Assault centerpiece? If that is the case, what can I do to improve this squad of 410 points?

Thanks in advance.
CK

  The retinue look okay (for a command squad).  The commander himself seems to me to have too much wargear.  I'd dump the adamantine mantle, personally.  Can you give the squad Furious Charge?  I don't have the BT Codex, so I can't remember all of the details. 

Its a pretty strong command squad, I run one almost ecatly like often though led by a chappie. BT command squads can take furious charge. I'd think about infiltrate though, as its a good unit to use to smash elite shooters or meleeists of your enemy in the first 2 or 3 turns not to mention any juicy armoured targets. This does expose them to a great deal of retiliation without immediate support. But I always think its worth it if they make back their points and then some while eliminating some of my enemy's better units. I agree with dropping the mantle. The retinue are your extra wounds to soak up damage. The mantle is only going to be really critical if the retinue all die and if they do the marshal is probably going to die too so its points best spent elsewhere. I've never trusted a plasma pistol on an hq. I just think its too risky for its benefits. I see it as giving you enemy easy vps cause if it does wound him thats one less wound needed to kill him. The rest seems good, if you want to keep the pistol I'd shell out the pts for master crafting.

Interesting points about the Mantle. I don't play a whole lot of PF-packing armies, so perhaps that is a good idea. I've never really had touble with the pistol - he'll lose a wound to it once every 3 games, and he's generally in CC. I like it because I can throw in an extra high-powered weapon right before I charge. I can't begin to describe the number of times it has helped my Meltaguns soften up Terminators, Crisis suits and the like.

I've tried Infiltrate before - it's not pretty. I had the above squad with an identical command squad (attached to my chaplain) that infiltrated in a 1500 point battle with Tau - I lost 14 of the 20 models before they even got a chance to move, shoot or assault. I'll stick with Furious Charge though - I've had success with it before.

If I drop the Mantle, should I drop the Combat Shield too and take an Iron Halo? It would be a nice trade-off, dropping a net of 25 points on my already pricey commander.

Thanks again for the quick responses. I'll be tooling around with the rest of my army for the next week or so, as my original 2500 point list didn't really live up to my theoryhammer expectations. The way I see it, I didn't have a strong enough Troops base, which are really what a Marine list needs. The more T4 3+ Saves you have, the better.

CK

Posted By Corpsman_of_Krieg on 02/11/2007 2:32 PM
I've never really had touble with the pistol - he'll lose a wound to it once every 3 games, and he's generally in CC. I like it because I can throw in an extra high-powered weapon right before I charge. I can't begin to describe the number of times it has helped my Meltaguns soften up Terminators, Crisis suits and the like.

I think the plasma pistol's fine on a three-wound character.

If I drop the Mantle, should I drop the Combat Shield too and take an Iron Halo? It would be a nice trade-off,
dropping a net of 25 points on my already pricey commander.

If you can afford it. Surely a 4+ save is better than a 5+. Personally, I'd rather have an extra plasma gun or power fist or something elsewhere in the army, but WMMV.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll probably keep this incarnation of my Marshal, while giving my Command Squad Furious Charge.

Marshal - 156 pts
Power Sword, Plasma Pistol, Holy Orb of Antioch, Iron Halo, Terminator Honors, Frag Grenades

By the way, what does WMMV mean?

CK

  Damned if I know.  I think I was trying to type "YMMV," or perhaps "YHVH."