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I am trying to put together an infantry shooty army and have been playing with some different configurations and this is one i think would be fairly effective, although the skimmer army is deffinately optimal, this would be something different and i think would be fun to play.

HQ

Eldrad

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Troops

Gaurdians, 10 man squad, Eldar Missle Launcher       100 points

Gaurdians, 10 man squad, Eldar Missle Launcher       100 points

Gaurdians, 10 man squad, Eldar Missle Launcher       100 points

Gaurdians, 10 man squad, Eldar Missle Launcher       100 points

Gaurdians, 10 man squad, Eldar Missle Launcher       100 points

Gaurdians, 10 man squad, Eldar Missle Launcher       100 points

Elite

Harlies, 10 man squad, Kiss, Shadowseer     250 points

Harlies, 10 man squad, Kiss, Shadowseer     250 points

Fast

Vyper, S.Cannon x 2     60 points

Heavy

Wraithlord, EML, BL     145 points

Wraithlord, EML, BL     145 points

War Walkers, 3 walkers, 2 x S.Lasers     180 points

 

Points: 1995

Model Count: 86

 

 

Basically the Avater makes everyone fearless while Eldrad does his thing, no surprise there. The gaurdians provide bulk and a buffer against hoarde assault armies, and the Missle Launchers provide a good mix between anti infatry and hoarde. Plus, the entire mass of gaurdians can move and shoot, which is nice, plus fleet onto objectives if neccesary. 60 fearless gaurdians would be hard to move.

the vyper is for taking / seizing objectives.

the Wraithlords hang tight, soak fire and shoot then counter charge with the avatar.

The warwalkers obviously shoot.

My main question is about the harlies. Are two squads too much countercharge? the avatar and wraithlords may be enough. The harlies can advance on opposing shooty armies and have a decent chance of getting there, but 500 points is a lot. Any suggestions on different units to use? Maybe a squad of spears to go after enemy shooty units? not many shooty units to put in the elite spot for eldar.

I was also considering a squad of deepstriking spiders as enemy hidden ordinance would be a real pain for this army.

How about a warlock or two with conceal to put into the gaurdian squads, because im sure getting all of them in cover and within 12" of the avater will not be easy, if even possible.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.

Cookie cutter + Eldar = bad

One thing that jumps right out is what you mention about the guardians and cover. Some guardian squads with conceal warlocks with different heavy weapons can accomplish different missions. Right now all the cookie cutter squads all have the same cookie-cutter role: stand off at range in cover and plink with missiles. Warlocks and different weapons may also make you want to vary the number of guardians in those squads depending what you want to do with them.

thanks for the input Flavius.

What would you suggest though? I thought the EML was a good compromise of roles. Any weapon i would assume you would need at least two of to improve the odds of it hitting every turn.

Mayeb some s.cannons or s.laers?

Do you think bright lances are worth it in gaurdian squads?

And the Harlies? Too much?

I had also considered dropping a squad or two of gauridans for some DA's but i question their effectiveness when not in a wave serpant.

If you come up to Orrcon this Saturday for the RTT you will see how mine does.

DA's might be a good choice for repelling guys who are getting to close to the line for comfort, unless you plan on letting your Harlies sit back all game. But having a 10 man squad blade storm a charging gaunt squad would be really nice to see, and keep at least 2 or 3 of your guardian squads alive a bit longer.

I'd probably give 2 of those squads Bright Lances, and ditch that Vyper. The lances will help you out against Tau, Predators, Land Raiders, Demolishers, etc...

All in all the list will probably do well enough. You've got enough counter assualt units to keep most CC armies on their toes, and enough long range weaponry to dance with shooty armies. Try it out for a few games, and let us know how it works.

Hey Blakcmoore, congratz on winning that GE RTT, by the way. Todd told me you won it. I wish i would have gone, i wen tinto the office when i didnt need to. I am kicking myself for not going now.

And i will actually miss Orcon, i am going skydiving that day.

What do you run with your Eldar? You put together some tough lists, i would be curious to see if you dont mind. Maybe after the Con?

Djones,
I agree, i was thinking the same thing, let the DA's soak a charge and then counter with the avatar and harlies. the only problem is if you face a mechanized army or a shooty army a lot of points invested in those units may go to waste.

Perhaps dropping a unit of Harlies for some fast moving shooty units like spiders, spears or possibly even hawks would work better.

and you think dropping the Vyper is a good idea? otherwsie i have nothing fast for last turn objective grabbing. Maybe if i take one of th eabove mentioned units i wouldnt need the vyper.

Well, in my case, I am playing with what I have, not with what I want. The list will change a lot when I take it to the Gladiator at Adepticon.

Farseer
Avatar

10 Dire Avengers
10 Dire Avengers

10 Guardians w/Brightlance
10 Guardians w/Brightlance
10 Guardians w/Brightlance

2 Vypers w/all Shur Cannons
2 Vypers w/all Shur Cannons
2 Vypers w/all Shur Cannons

3 (Blackmoor Patern) Warwalkers (4 Scatterlasers, 2 Starcannons)
3 (Blackmoor Patern) Warwalkers (4 Scatterlasers, 2 Starcannons)
3 (Blackmoor Patern) Warwalkers (4 Scatterlasers, 2 Starcannons)

Wow, that is a lot of Str 6.

A lot of very fragile str 6. Are you hoping to just swarm your opponant with so many targets he cant down them all?

What are you planning on changing? (again, if you dont want to spill the beans before the con, no worries)

And no eldrad? Do you think a normal farseer will cut the mustard?

I like the list though, the raw amount of str 6 shots you put out is crazy.

Wow, that is a lot of Str 6.

A lot of very fragile str 6. Are you hoping to just swarm your opponant with so many targets he cant down them all?

What are you planning on changing? (again, if you dont want to spill the beans before the con, no worries)

And no eldrad? Do you think a normal farseer will cut the mustard?

I like the list though, the raw amount of str 6 shots you put out is crazy.

Okay, Blackmoor. I concede that you found a way to break the "cookie-cutter = bad" principle. This is like the cookie cutter of Str 6 death.

Well, I think of Eldrad as being bad comp because he is very powerful and a special charactor. Also I find him to be undercosted. Of course I will take him in a no-comp setting...

Also in the Gladiator there is a lot of scary things running around, and that says Fire Dragons to me.


As far as cookie-cutter armies go...

I wanted to try something other than the 3 Falcon army.

Some armies have a lot of choices that can be changed around alot (Chaos). But some armies don't have much to work with as far as options goes (necrons). A lot of people think that Guardians are worthless. I think they can work, but when they do, you need to take a lot of them. And guardians don't have many options other than their heavy weapon. Since my army is hurting for anti-tank, that means Bright Lances (If I had them ready, I would take 50 guardians). They can shoot tanks while advancing, then when they get within 12" they can then use massed firepower for anti-infantry.

For the Vypers I am trying to keep them cheap, and they war walkers everyone says to take all scatter lasers, but I though of adding 2 starcannons to the mix and try them out.

Since this will be the first time I am playing this army, and I am treating it was a tune-up for the Gladiator. It will be a test of what units work, and which don't.

A few starcannons thrown into the mix is a good idea. Fewer shots, but it's much more satisfying watching the MEQ player not get to make his saves, and it also makes him keep them in his mind, making that much more for him to think about. AP2 weapons are the best type of Psychological warfare. No one likes them, and will usually try to stay away from them.

As for the Vyper, IMO and experience, they only work in numbers. A single bolter can drop one. That means that when your in range to fire with your 2 ShuriCannons, he's in range to fire with his 8-10 Bolters, and Plasmas. All of a sudden, your only Vyper is gone. There are much better uses for those points. Getting that leg up on those higher armor valued vehicles would be a good choice IMO. Maybe taking a small unit of Hawks or Spiders would be a good choice as well.

Conventional wisdom in the old codex said to avoid giving guardians BL or EML because of the single shot. But I've been finding on the tabletop that something has shifted in the makeup of the army that makes it work now better than it used to. Maybe it's the shift away from starcannons or maybe the drop in price on the weapons, but guardians are shaping up to be a feasible way to get some cheap, durable, long range str8 firepower in an army.  Especially with multiple units.

I'm going to clarify my earlier comment on Reecius' original army list too and say that it's not the fact that there are a bunch of guardians.  It is that they all have missle launchers, which leaves the army vulnerable to 2+ armor targets.   Mixing in some AP2 weapons increases flexibility.

In addition to the 10-elf standoff unit with the antitank weapon, it's also looking like there might be some value in a larger guardian defender unit with a singing-spear warlock and a multishot weapon.  That's a unit that can work in closer to the enemy, interdicting infantry movement with shuriken catapults and threatening vehicles with the spear.

Thanks for all of the input guys, i appreciate it, and good luck at the con blackmoor, represent the SCGWL! I think a bunch of our guys will be there actually.

I think that you all are correct though, i should mix in some AP 2. The warlocks with conceal and a spear makes sense as well, as the entire mass can advance and fire.

I will reword a second draft list and post.

Guardian Squads are lots of points for a single BS 3 heavy weapon. As long as you have a farseer to doom a unit, Ranger/Pathfinder groups might work better. They also have better cover saves and infiltrate. Your guardians have about half a chance to take out a single marine per turn, where as a pathfinder unit would get over double that plus the odd chance of pinning.

For my all infantry list, I'm thinking of having a firebase of Reapers/Pathfinders and some moble elements of DA, Wraithlord and Warwalkers.