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After a few games with this newly acquired World Eater, a few dilemma arose.  During the game, these were ruled peacefully without my or my opponent pointing sharp stuff at each other, but I would like to have more than the opinion of a D6 on the subject.

 

1- My army is up against a SM Drop Pod army.  On turn one my opponent has nothing on the table.  Do I roll for Blood Frenzy, and if so, what/where do the marines run toward?

2- Models with the M.o.K. must charge if an ennemy is within range.  If my unit is outside of some ruins and the opponent's unit is within 6 in the ruins.  If I did not move during my move phase, can my unit shoot at it twice ( plasma and bolt pistols ) assuming I won't roll a 6 on my terrain test and/or assuming there won't be a squad to assault when I'm done.

3- Using the example of question 2, if my unit is within 6'' of an ennemy squad, can my unit shoot at a rhino 8'' away.  Since if I shoot the rhino I won't be able to assault that squad within 6 and that whatever the result of my shooting, I will not be able to charge the rhino.

That's all I can't solve for now,

Giggedy giggedy, thank you very much!

1) There definitely isn't any reason you shouldn't be rolling for Blood Frenzy by the RAW. The issue, however, is that the rules only tell that you must move towards the nearest enemy.

Since no enemy is defined at that point I can't see any reason you couldn't move in any direction you wanted.


2 & 3) The RAW don't prevent you from firing in order to ruin your ability to charge. However, GW has ruled in a similar case in the Space Wolves FAQ (Blood Claws have almost the same 'must charge' rule) that the unit was not allowed to fire if it would prevent them from charging.

So really by the RAW you are free to do it, although you'll likely find some opponents who think that tactic is rather dirty.

I'm going to have to disagree with you Yak.

The rule is "must" charge.
If you shoot, you cant charge.
If you cant charge, you are breaking the "must charge" rule.

By RAW, the shooting isn't an option.
You must charge.

That means you cant, voluntarily, do anything that would stop you from charging.

Posted By Odd the Quiet on 02/27/2007 12:26 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you Yak.

The rule is "must" charge.
If you shoot, you cant charge.
If you cant charge, you are breaking the "must charge" rule.

By RAW, the shooting isn't an option.
You must charge.

That means you cant, voluntarily, do anything that would stop you from charging.

So, a unit (that doesn't roll any bonus movement) can't move the opposite direction in the movement phase from the closest enemy unit as this would take them out of charge range?

They can't ever shoot because the casualties might then cause them to be out of charge range?

Nope.

The rule is:  "Must charge if there are any enemy within range at the start of the Assault phase."


So they aren't even checking until the start of the Assault phase, which clearly can be entirely dependent upon what happens in the shooting phase.

If the rule was:  "The unit must charge if able to", then you would be correct, but unfortunately by the RAW that isn't the case.

I tell you this rule gets really stupid once you introduce the fact that said unit to be assaulted in the assault phase may not even be around after a round of firing or rapid firing.

Berzerkers can rapid fire (i would never do that). And they must always charge if possible. Thats why they take plasma pistols ONLY in there upgrades.
If they fire at the rhino than they may not charge thats legit (but why would you ever want too?).
The rule is not stupid you just dont charge if the enemy is destroyed by the rapid fire weapons.
If you roll for frenzy and fail with no enemy on the board you move towards the enemies table edge.
I must say your apponant is asking for it by useing drop pods against the world eaters thats foolish.

Always take melta bombs with you champions this will save you lots of issues.

Posted By 5thelement on 02/27/2007 11:41 AM

The rule is not stupid you just dont charge if the enemy is destroyed by the rapid fire weapons.

And what happens if say theres 3 SM you just rapid fired your 5 Berserkers at. Thats 10 bolter/plasma shots and by some grace of the dice they make every single save/are not wounded? You just made it so you can't assault, but theres a unit there that you must assault. However you made it that way in the assumption that out of 10 Shots, you should of killed them through shooting. Thats why it becomes a stupid rule.(This is discounting the fact that its pretty dumb to not want to assault with Berserkers against this squad. Its just a hypothetical situation. )

I'm sorry my question is so stupid to you. 2 Chaos Termis are 5'' in cover, what's left of my squad are 3 berserkers, 2 have plasma pistols. Figure this out the way you wish, I felt shooting at them twice felt better than shooting once and failing to assault, because assaulting that squad meant my Berserkers would die.

I'm also sorry that I used a Rhino as an example, becasue in actuality, it was a Chimera, and around 15 IGs where hiding behind it. Since I could not charge it ( because my squad was 8'' away ) I thought shooting at it and hope to penetrate the armour and get a 6 would be awesome, but just to stop them moving with a chimera-cover was also nice.

I'm sorry I was not nearly intelloignet enough to figure that if I eraticate a squad with shooting, I cannot charge it.

I'm glad you think that when you are affected by frenzy and no ennemy is on the board, you run towards his deployment zone. I'm sorry I could not read your mind about the simplicity of this, nor figure where you found this ( this is actually a question hiding in that sentence )

I must say that me and my opponent are using fixed list, we do not change it depending on our opponent, and that within the 5 games I played with my WE army, his army was the only one I did not slaughter ( end in a massacre) and that it was his second lost since the SM codex came out.

Please be constructive in your replies and feel free to read this : http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/15/postid/6158/view/topic/Default.aspx

Movement doesn't affect ability to charge, merely opportunity.



The same goes for shooting (with exceptions).

In either case you have maintained the ability to charge.
At the start of the shooting phase, you will know if there may be units in range in the assault phase.
Shoot at them all you want, but you must keep the ability to charge, in case you dont inflict sufficient casualties.

You aren't checking until the start of the assault phase.
But you know there will be an assault phase, and you must charge if there are units in range.
Be pepared.

Posted By SkizO on 02/27/2007 3:33 PM
I'm sorry my question is so stupid to you. 2 Chaos Termis are 5'' in cover, what's left of my squad are 3 berserkers, 2 have plasma pistols. Figure this out the way you wish, I felt shooting at them twice felt better than shooting once and failing to assault, because assaulting that squad meant my Berserkers would die.

Please be constructive in your replies and feel free to read this : http://www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/15/postid/6158/view/topic/Default.aspx

First of all, you need to calm down. Nobody said your question was stupid. I said the "rule can get stupid" and then explained why said rule can get quite ridiculous.

Secondly, I have read that thread. Particularly this part, which perhaps you should read. Pay particulare attention to the bold face type.

In closing, before you fly off the handle and start having a fit you should follow these easy steps to thread comprehension.

1)Read the post thoroughly in order post to next post.

2)Follow the context of those posts to see what the poster is refering to.

3)Reply in an appropriate manner.

Its not that hard. Read and understand before you type. This will be my last comment in this thread. :(