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according to the WH codex, the callidus' neural shredder rolls to wound against a model's leadership value.  does the strength of the weapon then apply towards the target's original toughness for determining instant death?

Only if its used against Ld models would it cause instant death. So basically, only against multiple wound Grots and Shield drones would this ever come up. IE, never.

Insta-death is vs. a models toughness. The Neural Shredder rule only says to use the leadership for rolling to wound and doesn't make any reference to insta-kill. This means by RAW, you would determine an insta-kill vs. its toughness, but roll vs. its leadership to determine if its wounded.

I have to agree by RAW it would cause instant death to any model with a Toughness of 4 or below.  This is per the vague wording on page 27 BGB.  Basically the section entitled "Instant Death!" doesn't mention anything about how the wound was caused.  Its only concern is that a wound was caused by a weapon with a Strength value of double or more than the Toughness.  This fact is made painfully clear in this thread:

http://dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/15/postid/36239/view/topic/Default.aspx

I will always jump on the opportunity to link to this thread since it is one of my all time favorites!

Even with this information at hand though it's probably best to just assume that the writers were NOT thinking of instant death when the wrote the rules for the neural shredder (or any weapon besides krak missiles).

If it is S8 then it is insta-death.

- Greenie

Only problem, is that for the shredder you use leadership any time toughness would normally be used.

Ignore me.

Posted By skyth on 03/07/2007 2:55 PM
Only problem, is that for the shredder you use leadership any time toughness would normally be used.

That would be true if it said "always use Ld for toughness". However, it says "roll to wound as follows:" then goes on to describe the method for determining if its wounded. You would then refer to the instant death rule, where it says S=double toughness. To me, this means the LD is only used in determining if its wounded. After that, instant death doesn't refer to LD at all. Am I being clear or did I confuse you guys? Kind of a confusing way to put it I think.

I agree totally. I think this was a major oversight. But I do think if we follow it RAW then you still use toughness for insta-kill.

RAW seems to imply that it counts as S8 for instant kill purposes. The Shredder rules say use leadership for causing wounds, but the Instant Death rules states, 'if a creature is wounded by something that has double their toughness value or greater...' The neural shredder is S8, and can cause wounds, so I can't see any other way to read it.