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I'm dreaming up a new chapter for myself (and planning out all my purchases ahead of time), and it occured to me that I don't really know for sure how a new chapter is founded.

From what I can gather, the Second Founding was agreed on by (most of) the existing Legions as a neccesity, and that since then there have been ~25 Foundings. I've seen it mentioned that the High Lords of Terra have commisioned new Legions (The Astartes Praeses, as mentioned several times at http://www.ironhands.com/chapters.htm which provides a fairly complete list of chapters, most with pictures of the shoulderpad icons), but other than the High Lords requesting their commision to combat a specific need (the Astartes Praeses were supposedly founded to defend the Eye of Terror, for source see the bottom of the aforementioned page).

Other than the Second Founding and the Astartes Praeses, I don't really know how a new chapter is founded, like the reasoning and process. Any theories or facts would be greatly appreciated!

You know how the Space Marines are required to send genetic samples to the Adeptus Terra as "tithes?" The Adeptus Mechanicus takes these and implants them into people raised in test tubes. The people do nothing, they just act as hosts for the geneseed. The geneseeds are harvested and implanted in new hosts, rinse and repeat. When they have around 1000 gene seeds (after approximately 75 years, IIRC) they use the supply to geneseed to start a new chapter.
How the training of this chapter goes, I'm not sure.

I get the impression the Adeptus Mechanicus found them in 'batches' when they have accumulated enough genetic material -- IE once they have accumulated enough geneseed for a chapter, they wait for several more to be ready unless there is some urgent need. My guess is that they do this for easier control of newly founded chapters and better coordination.

As far as training and such goes....I'm not sure. Maybe the Imperial Fists do it -- they're stationed on Terra and are larger than a normal Chapter. Or it might be the responsibility of the Adeptus Mechanicus themselves, or perhaps the Adeptus Custodes.

Once the Chapter is ready, though, I imagine some freshly conquered or recently abandoned Imperial world in need of a governor is selected (maybe the new Chapter has some say) in an area of the Galaxy that needs more Astartes, and off they go to build their Monastary and Forges.

-Adso

I would expect that a number of marines would be chosen/volunteer to provide the leadership and support for the new chapter. It would come from the chapter than supplied the original gene seed or one that shares the same seed. Its not enough to have other marines train them as its the battle experience of the vets that teachs the most. If the chapter were made unit by unit they could fight as scouts and then as full marine units with an established chapter that venerates the same primarch. Thats way by the time you have full chapter numbers you have very few "green" marines and they are more or less ready for combat if required. There is no way that the high lords would allow them to be created so close to terra though. If theres one thing the imperial hierchy fear the most its the autonomy and strength of the astartes. Though the majority of the genetic material is banked on mars, it stands to reason the creation of new marines would hapen at isolated, out of the way research stations.

Hrrm as a theory goes, would this make sense:

Tithed Gene-seed goes to Adeptus Terra, stored, grown in test-tube people (that much I know is canon).
World chosen to be homeworld of chapter, someplace with suitable candidates for marinification (what would be the verb form anyways?), and/or is appropriately close to a major threat (appropriately, as in not next to, but within decent warp-jump distance) that the new chapter can address.
Chapter from whose gene-seed is harvested sends as many vet's, command, and basic marines to join newly founded chapter as they can spare.
New Chapter founded, ta daa! (Combat ready in like 30 years though)

What I have managed to gather in much reading over many years goes roughly as follows:

 

As others have said, each chapter is required to tithe a certain amount of geneseed to the genetors of the Adeptus, not necessarily on Mars, but probably the nearest facility.  Some portion is destructively tested for taint (possibly dipped in chocolate and tested for a bitter after taste) the rest is banked.  This process is overseen by a yet unnamed Ordo of the Inquisition. 

Certain conditions can mandate the creation of one or more new chapters.  Orders from the high lords, orders from the inquisition, obviously the fabricator general can do what he wants, etc.

When the process is activated, the gene seed is plugged into specialized servitors, who have the privelege of being tormented with what we would currently refer to as virtual reality to stimulate the necessary biological changes that activate the geneseed, and as eloquently put before, wash rinse repeat.  Each generation is culled to check for purity, and the remaing geneseed is passed on to the next.

When the batch sizes approaches stability, that is to say there is enough geneseed confirmed stable that the whole batch is not lost, initial candidates for change are modified.  The origins of these boys are not spelled out specifically, but I would assume are determined by the original creation order.  Chapter 7734 is being created to home world on planet X, then get some people from planet X, or possibly schola progenium candidates considered to violent, prisoners, etc.

These first marines are then attached to some other fighting force to gain experience.  There are probably only 50 or so at this point, so tacking on squads here or there would work.  There use to be a rule in the 2nd edition codex for "crusade armies" made up of 1 or 2 squads from a bunch of different forces, and assuming asuch an animal is still canon, probably a good place for these guys.

After these first marines gain some experience, they are tested, and possibly assigned specialist roles (command, tech, apoth, chap, etc)  The survivors are then put in charge of the first full company to come out of the tanks, and they would presumably pick up some specialists for training purposes.  Perhaps a squad of death watch, or some other marines.  Again wash rinse repeat.

Each progressive batch is larger, and within a hudred years or so the chapter reaches 80% of expected strength, at which point they would be cut free of the genetors, and responsible for themselves.  During this time, they develop a chapter identity, find one or more worlds to recruit from, take a homeworld (assuming they were not assigned one), and receive the highest honour.

Up to this point, very few if any chapters have names or livery all their own.  They would almost certainly be assigned a number, and issued standard black (emperor's service) armor.  The number is probably a two segment, like 55-3 indicating the chapter is the 3 chapter of the 55th founding.  For the record, this whole concept is home grown, but fits the canon material.  And explains why chapters always have names that fit their temperment and style.

 

So for planning your own newly founded chapter, assuming they have been cut free of the Genetors, I would suggest asking.

1.  Why were they founded:  A response to a particular threat, or a general need for more troops in a region.

2.  Who gave the founding order:  The high lords, the inquisition, the fabricator general.

3.  Who trained them:  Other Marines, Inquisitorial forces, someone else?

4.  Where do they live:  Do they have a home world, or are they a fleet based chapter.

5.  Whose geneseed was used to create them, and why.  A chapter being created to oppose the Tau may draw on a known assault chapter (blood angels) while one establishing a presence in a new area may draw on a more stable base (salamanders).  Also decide if the new chapter, and the progenitor chapter know the relationship.  Especially with inquistorial or mechanicus created forces, this could be a plaything.  A blood angels decendedant chapter that doesn't know who they are could be used to determine if the black rage is genetic or psychosocial, etc.

Wow.... *very impressed with all the responses, especially the last one*

Hey Dragonmann, other than general accumulated knowledge, are there any sources you cite for me? *still drooling over the delectable fluff*

Unfortunately no...  I have been playing for 12+ years, read almost every word in every white dwarf along the way, read all the specialist games material available, and read every codex published in that time.

What I put together is parsed from all sorts of sources.  For example, we know the inquisition ordered the creation of certain chapters (specifically the one where they were experimenting with the effects of temporary daemonic possesion on marines, the exorcists i believe, could be wrong), obviously the high lords can order a founding, cause well DUH, and the idea of the Adeptus Mechanicus sponsoring chapters on their own just fits, although it has never been specifically said.

Obviously I read the same new chapter creation as other people, but where i collected the fact that they are released in stages is lost to me.  I know i read it...  somewhere...  I did draw some logical conclusions that the first batch forms a command structure, again only logical.

If you can come up with specific questions to ask, I can search my memory, and may even find some time to dig through my heap o' books (although everything before 4th edition is in boxes in my garage attic :( )  but no guarantees on actual references.

 

 

Hrrm would it be reasonable for a new chapter to use tithed Space Wolves gene-seed  to create a new chapter ( using genetic manipulation combined with some less-than-codex organization to try and balance out the flawed Canis Helix that caused the "Wolf Brothers" Second Founding to be destroyed)?

But also add the fact that the Wolf Lord (Logan Grimnar) approved only grudgingly (get some friends among the Ordo Xenos by doing so, and in turn get some protection from Ordo Hereticus?), even though some leaders of the Great Companies greatly dissaprove? Would it be reasonable for them to want to destroy this 'bastard' chapter given an opportunity?

Also, how does that Canis Helix fit into the whole process?

(And thanks, I understand the whole 'I know it but I don't know from where' thing heh)

All possible... though rough going...

Number one the inquisition and the Space Wolves don't get along too well
Number two the canis helix is a major defect

A more likely story is that either the inquisitor or possibly a rogue Magos Biologis thinks they have isolated the canis helix. Possibly believing they have isolated the organ on which it is located, and replacing it with gene-stock from another marine chapter. (There was deffinetly a story somewhere about them trying this with a decendant chapter of the Blood Angels, the Lamentors i believe)

If it works, the inquisition could always try to call on the wolves to train a chapter similar to them in mentality. Depending on what your intent is, either to play codex marines, traited marines, or pure space wolves, it would be possible for the wolves to see through the deception and declare a blood feud against the new chapter, and tack on another one with the inquisition.

If that is the way things go, you could have a chapter that spent its formative years defending itself from extermination by the wolves. Emulating ones enemy may be a natural consequence of that.




In regards to the canis helix, it is a two part defect. The first is that it mandates a particular combination of conditions to trigger the initial transformation. I don't remember off hand what it is, and my books are not handy now, but suffice to say, to trigger the transformation you have to do something wolfy.

Secondly, the defect cause the Wulfen mutation to occur. The back story of the 13th company basically pointed out that it is nearly inevitible that a SW will become a wulfen iventually, although many take longer than their lifetime to get there.

Finally, the canis helix is responsible for other adaptations of the Wolves. Heightened senses, close friendship with the fenrisian wolves, pack instict, etc.



In regards to your specific interest in founding a chapter, and especially if you are going for the opposite feel to the Space Wolves who sired them. You get a chapter with close ties to the inquisition, perhaps more disciplined then the wolves, adept at countering the special abilities of the wolves, and for fluff wise, hailing from a desert world (I read you post about the Jackals).

Again, my 2/10ths of a bolter round

If you can lay your hands on the first Index Astartes book (there are four in total), then you will get your information. This book gives details of the 19 different organs that go into a Marine, from their secondary heart to the Black Carapace that lets them use power armor to its full potential. As for foundings, ONLY the Emperor, "speaking" through the High Lords of Terra, can sanction the formation of a new chapter. A parent chapter is chosen, the gene seed is tested, and the best particular organs from those in storage are allowed to grow into the organs. These are placed into a test servitor who, yes, lives in a test tube. When the gene seed is ready, it is harvested. The servitors can actually provide TWO sets of gene seed, which are harvested and implanted into two more servitors, and then these are implanted into two more, and so on until there are 1000 sets of zygotes for the organs. These are then grown and then implanted into the new Marines. The process takes about 55 years. This is just for the Marines. This does not include the bolters, power armor, Rhinos, bikes, jump packs, Battle Barges, Land Raiders, Terminator Suits, Predators, and all the other priceless tech that these guys parade around in. Speaking of Terminators, if your chapter is a recent founding...forget them. These things are impossible to make. They take either a huge amount of time (years, here people...) or they have to be hand-me-downs. Forget Dreadnoughts. Sure you have the hull, but who is going in the sarcophagus who wasn't a Marine for less then 300 years?

It is interesting to note that not all chapters have all the required organs. However, each must have a functioning progenoid gland, for this is where the new gene seed is collected. With out this organ, the Chapter will die out, as new Marines can not be created. Additionally, some of the organs have, for lack of a better word, mutated, and in some chapters cause distinctive traits, such as the canines of the Space Wolves and the whole blood-lust Black Thirst/ Rage thing that the Blood Angels have to deal with.

As for the "why" a chapter is formed, there are a variety of reasons, ranging from "We need more Marines!" to a specific need for a chapter in a certain place, such as the Eye of Terror that has a particular trait useful to the Imperium.

Posted By Dragonmann on 03/14/2007 7:21 AM

 For example, we know the inquisition ordered the creation of certain chapters (specifically the one where they were experimenting with the effects of temporary daemonic possesion on marines, the exorcists i believe, could be wrong), obviously the high lords can order a founding, cause well DUH, and the idea of the Adeptus Mechanicus sponsoring chapters on their own just fits, although it has never been specifically said.

While I haven't seen the information on the Inquisition ordering a new Chapter, I am not doubting it.  In one of the Imperial Armour books, there is a Chapter that incorporates the =I= of the Inquisition.  Could explain it.  I just read that only the Emperor can say yes to new Marines, thats all.

List of canon chapters (from wikipedia):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Space_Marine_Chapters

Note specifically the exorcists (founded by inquisitorial order, and the steel confessors founded by mechanicus order).  You would have to dif through a big pile of their source fluff to confirm the canon of these two, but the records are there.

 

Link to the creating a space marine article:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/initiation/1/

Has a small section on the founding of a new chapter, and lots of info about marine organs and such.  A lot of good info here (i believe it is the same article as printed in Index Astartes 4)

 

 

Never saw those before.  The chapter that uses the =I= of the Inquisition in their symbol is called the Red Hunters Chapter in the IA 2 book (the big, hardback one from FW) and my C: Armageddon book is MIA.  There is no citation for the Steel Confessors, so no way to find where they are mentioned.  It must be true, it is on Wikipedia, after all.

Hrrm I think I found where SisterJoey's information is coming from:

FOUNDING NEW CHAPTERS
According to their charter, each Chapter is obliged to send 5% of its genetic material to the Adeptus Mechanicus on Mars. This 'tithe' has two purposes. Firstly, it enables the Adeptus Mechanicus to monitor the health of each Marine Chapter. Secondly, it enables the Adeptus Mechanicus to store gene-seed with a view to founding new Chapters.

A new Chapter cannot be founded overnight. A single suitable gene-seed must be selected for each zygote. Zygotes are then grown in cultures and implanted into human test-slaves. These test-slaves must be biologically compatible and free from mutation. Test-slaves spend their entire lives bound in static experimental capsules. Although conscious, they are completely immobile, serving as little more than mediums within which the various zygotes can develop. From the original slave come two progenoids, which are implanted within two more slaves, from which come four progenoids and so on. It takes about 55 years of constant reproduction to produce 1,000 healthy sets of organs. These must be officially sanctioned by the Master of Adeptus Mechanicus and then by the High Lords of Terra speaking for the Emperor. Only the Emperor can give permission for the creation of a new Chapter.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/initiation/3/

*shrug* apparently it's official GW fluff

Also, to quote directly from page 16 of the 'Eye of Terror' Codex:

* The Mythos Angelica Mortis makes reference to a group of twenty Chapters known as the Astartes Praeses. This tome claims that these chapters were founded with the express purpose of guarding the regions surrounding the Eye of Terror, although the status and identity of each individual chapter is not currently known.


Well it proves that there was an Astartes Praeses, but doesn't say anything about the Inquisition being involved (as I remember it saying so on Wikipedia).

Following a quick look through it I can't find any other references (didn't read in detail though, wanna sleep sometime tonight heh)

Never forget the most important fluff quote of all, from the Inquisitor Rulebook:

 

Everything you have been told is a lie

 

Hhahaha I love it >_<

heres my idea

chapter master: "oops we have too meany marines"   

marine: "what do we do comander "

CM: "take 200 marines, 100 scouts, a ship,1 techmarine, an apothacaron a chaplen, a librarean, and 200 extra geanseed and start your own chapter before the inquasishtion comes over here"

M: "yes sir"     

thats my story and im sticking to it