Captain Lysander and veteran skills

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**Hellfury**

There seems to be some contention over whether Captain Lysander may utilize vet skils.

I am under the impression he can from these entries in the SM codex.

Page 48 of the 4th ed space marine codex under Captain Lysanders entry states:

Page 30 of the 4th ed space marine codex under the Terminator Command Squad entry states:

So by that, I am surmising he may be given vet skills abilities because he can:

Take a "terminator command squad chosen as normal from the army list"
"All models in a terminator command squad (including leading/attached characters) may be upgraded to have one of the..." vet skills.
It says that he "may not select any additional items from the armoury", but vet skills arent in the armoury.

Am I missing anything that prevents Lysander from taking a veteran skill?

**insaniak**

No, that looks about right.

He's forbidden from selecting extra items from the Armoury, but there are no rules restricting anything else that characters would normally be entitled to take.

**Voodoo Boyz**

By any sane reading of the rules, Lysander and his squad can take the vet skills.

I do not begrudge you in any way for using this at all, I think it's perfectly fine.

However I think this is one situation that if it was brought up to Jervis Johnson, or any other member of the Dev team the response would be something along the lines of "Oh Bloody Hell no...."

**Hellfury**

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 03/15/2007 8:57 AM

However I think this is one situation that if it was brought up to Jervis Johnson, or any other member of the Dev team the response would be something along the lines of "Oh Bloody Hell no...."

Youre probably right about the intent, as not many special characters that I know of have the ability to be modified, in any way.

Ahh well, they need to write clearer rules if they intended for lysander not to have vet skills, something along the lines of "May not be modified in any way" or something similar.

But my faith in good ol jervis went down the toilet after he made the latest DA codex. They take too much stock in the new "Improved" format they have for codexs. Clearly overrated. For example, why do we need two seperate entries for a single squad entry? For fluff? I am sure they could have fit all the rules and fluff on the same page with no hassle.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Posted By Hellfury on 03/15/2007 9:04 AM

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 03/15/2007 8:57 AM

However I think this is one situation that if it was brought up to Jervis Johnson, or any other member of the Dev team the response would be something along the lines of "Oh Bloody Hell no...."

Youre probably right about the intent, as not many special characters that I know of have the ability to be modified, in any way.

Ahh well, they need to write clearer rules if they intended for lysander not to have vet skills, something along the lines of "May not be modified in any way" or something similar.

But my faith in good ol jervis went down the toilet after he made the latest DA codex. They take too much stock in the new "Improved" format they have for codexs. Clearly overrated. For example, why do we need two seperate entries for a single squad entry? For fluff? I am sure they could have fit all the rules and fluff on the same page with no hassle.

Well it's not quite so bad with Lysander, but when you can Infiltrate Tigerius's command squad, things just get silly.

I agree they need to write tighter rules, but I have to put a vote of confidence in Jervis above other members of the team.

He made the Dark Angels "balanced" in that they're not broken. They're not easily abused at all, in almost any real way. Of course this means that many army types (Deathwing) are now dead as tournament competitors, which pisses me and other players off, especially when the previous Dex by Phil Kelly (Eldar) are still so competitive to remain as one of the top armies in the game with plenty of powerful/abusable units and combo's.

But on the other hand IF all the codex's were written by Jervis in this kind of a fashion we'd end up with a game much more reliant on tactics than it is on having an abusive army list AND having tactics, which is the way I feel things are currently.

As to the new Dex layout, meh, I play fantasy - I got used to it. I don't think it's as good as the old way the 40k ones are, but meh some people love it, I don't really care.

**Hellfury**

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 03/15/2007 10:22 AM

Posted By Hellfury on 03/15/2007 9:04 AM

Posted By Voodoo Boyz on 03/15/2007 8:57 AM

However I think this is one situation that if it was brought up to Jervis Johnson, or any other member of the Dev team the response would be something along the lines of "Oh Bloody Hell no...."

Youre probably right about the intent, as not many special characters that I know of have the ability to be modified, in any way.

Ahh well, they need to write clearer rules if they intended for lysander not to have vet skills, something along the lines of "May not be modified in any way" or something similar.

But my faith in good ol jervis went down the toilet after he made the latest DA codex. They take too much stock in the new "Improved" format they have for codexs. Clearly overrated. For example, why do we need two seperate entries for a single squad entry? For fluff? I am sure they could have fit all the rules and fluff on the same page with no hassle.

Well it's not quite so bad with Lysander, but when you can Infiltrate Tigerius's command squad, things just get silly.

I agree they need to write tighter rules, but I have to put a vote of confidence in Jervis above other members of the team.

He made the Dark Angels "balanced" in that they're not broken. They're not easily abused at all, in almost any real way. Of course this means that many army types (Deathwing) are now dead as tournament competitors, which pisses me and other players off, especially when the previous Dex by Phil Kelly (Eldar) are still so competitive to remain as one of the top armies in the game with plenty of powerful/abusable units and combo's.

But on the other hand IF all the codex's were written by Jervis in this kind of a fashion we'd end up with a game much more reliant on tactics than it is on having an abusive army list AND having tactics, which is the way I feel things are currently.

As to the new Dex layout, meh, I play fantasy - I got used to it. I don't think it's as good as the old way the 40k ones are, but meh some people love it, I don't really care.

True it is more balanced, but I have to disagree with it being inline with what 40K is now.

It would be nice if all codex's were made this balanced across the baord, but since 4th ed came out, it has not been that way to the degree that the dark angle codex is.

The dark angel codex may be balanced, but it is nerfed in comparison to the other dex's produced for fourth edition.

**whitedragon**

What Vet Skill are you thinking of giving him? He has a thunderhammer, so Furious Charge is about useless. Are you asking if you have to pay to give him tank hunters if the rest of the squad has it?

**Green Bloater**

If he has a command squad then the sergeant with a power sword would benefit from the higher step in initiative, plus +1S never hurts to have when charging.

- Greenie