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Hi all. Here's 2 SOB lists I recently put together. Please tell me what you think:

LIST 1:

Canoness- inferno pistol, blessed weapon, jump pack, frag grenades, Cloak of St. Aspira, Book of St. Lucius- 131

10 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, Veteran Superior w. Brazier of Holy Fire, St. Lucius- 157
-Rhino- extra armour, smoke launchers- 58

10 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, Veteran Superior w. Brazier of Holy Fire, Book of St. Lucius- 157
-Rhino- extra armour, smoke launchers- 58

10 Battle Sisters- 2 meltaguns, Veteran Superior w. combi bolter-meltagun, Book of St. Lucius- 164
-Rhino- extra armour, smoke launchers- 58

7 Seraphim- 2 hand flamers, Veteran Superior w. eviscerator, Book of St. Lucius- 208

7 Seraphim- 2 inferno pistols, Veteran Superior w. eviscerator, Book of St. Lucius- 214

Exorcist- extra armour- 140

Exorcist- extra armour- 140

Total:
1485 (7 faith)

 

LIST 2:

 

 

Canoness- inferno pistol, blessed weapon, jump pack, frag grenades, Cloak of St. Aspira, Book of St. Lucius- 131

10 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, Veteran Superior w. Brazier of Holy Fire, St. Lucius- 157
-Rhino- extra armour, smoke launchers- 58

10 Battle Sisters- flamer, heavy flamer, Veteran Superior w. Brazier of Holy Fire, Book of St. Lucius- 157
-Rhino- extra armour, smoke launchers- 58

8 Seraphim- 2 hand flamers, Sister Superior w. Book & Eviscerator- 230

8 Seraphim- 2 inferno pistols, Sister Superior w. Book & Eviscerator- 246

10 Retribnutors- 4 heavy bolters, Sister Superior- 184

Exorcist- extra armour- 140

Exorcist- extra armour- 140

Total: 1501 (7 faith)

Any thoughts? Which list do you like better?

Whoops! Just noticed I cut-and-pasted 3 lists in there instead of 2. Just edited it.

Any thoughts?

Both lists look like standard, effective SoB mech lists. Solid, if a bit heavy on the toys (Eviscerators, Books, Cloak) and low on solid anti-tank (provided by H/K Missiles, Meltas and Multi-Meltas, or allied Guard).

I like the second list a wee bit better, just because its rarer to see retributors used, and I like 'em. However, the first list does a better job at giving the opponent extra armored targets to shoot at, and fitting in that melta-toting Sisters squad gives you good antitank.

In general, the main challenges for this list would be Escalation games, since they both have a lot of mounted models, and Airforces or other vehicle-heavy lists, since the Flamers don't provide enough hitting power against them. Deepstriking terminators might be scary, too, since Exorcists are fragile and unpredictable for taking out terminators, and only one of your Seraph squads has the neccessary Inferno pistols. I would reccomend swapping the Braziers for plasma pistols and/or power weapons, personally....you simply don't need that many templates unless you KNOW your opponent is playing, say, Drop Troop Guard.

However, the basic layout for a sisters mechanized list is there and sound -- just tweak a little.

-Adso

I like the first list better, although I would swap around some of the special weapons

Instead of heavy flamer/flamer x 2 and 2xmelta x 1, I would go heavy flamer/melta x 2, and put the combi-melta superior with the 3rd squad going heavy flamer/flamer. 

The you have it, only one of your mounsted squads is a threat to vehicles, while if you re-arrange things everything will be a threat.

At 1500 points, you might want to consider a 4th mounted squad instead of the 2 phin squads, but I'll admit they are pretty pimp, and as someone else said the list is a bit heavy on the toys.

You might consider dropping the braziers, combi-melta, books from the phins, evis on the phins to get 90 points.  That plus your extra points 15 is 105.  That can get you a 96 point jump cannones with an evis, pistol and book.  If your phins are running with the cannoness, then they don't need their own book.  That change gets you 2 more faith at the cost of a a few one shot weapon, and 1 less evis.

I'd drop the flamer seraphim. I'm a MEQ player mostly who faces MEQs and briefly dabbled in WH. As cool as the angelic ladies are they just aren't that effective against most foes. They're just too fragile and do too little damage. I remember playing a game in which a maxed unit of them with attached Saint and canoness charged a marine assault squad and after 2-3 turns they were wiped out. They're good as tank hunters and skirmishers, but are not a dedicated assault unit. An eversor assassin or arco-flagelants are the best way to give you some cc punch. The rest of the list looks reasonable.

Posted By BrotherAdso on 03/17/2007 10:57 AM

In general, the main challenges for this list would be Escalation games, since they both have a lot of mounted models, and Airforces or other vehicle-heavy lists, since the Flamers don't provide enough hitting power against them. Deepstriking terminators might be scary, too, since Exorcists are fragile and unpredictable for taking out terminators, and only one of your Seraph squads has the neccessary Inferno pistols. I would reccomend swapping the Braziers for plasma pistols and/or power weapons, personally....you simply don't need that many templates unless you KNOW your opponent is playing, say, Drop Troop Guard.

However, the basic layout for a sisters mechanized list is there and sound -- just tweak a little.

-Adso

Thanks. I agree with you on the troubles vs. armour-heavy opponents (thats partly why I included the eviscerators on the Seraphim). In my list's previous incarnation, I had power weapons instead of Braziers, but I decided that more flamers templates (especially with divine guidance) would do more damage. And as for Terminators...again, if necessary, Divine Guidance will hurt them a lot.

@Frenrik: Good advice. I just might try switching weapons or dropping stuff to get that extra canoness.

@WarsmithDave: The point behind Seraphim is to NOT use them as an assault unit, but rather as a support unit that can hose enemy units with short-ranged firepower (often with Divine Guidance), attack weak targets, and, if necessary, charge in with Spirit of the Martyr to hold tough enemies up, and then use hit-and-run to jet out next turn. Hit-and-run actually works wonderfully to ensure an enemy unit does not move all game.

Good points about the seraphim. I just think paying nearly 1/3 of your points for 2 units of them is a bit steep. No matter what army I run I always want one unit that can handle itself well enough in cc with a unit of assault marines (example). However this is just my opinion concerning seraphim, heavily influenced by the fact that I only face power armour. If you do well enough without a dedicated assault unit then my hat is off to you.

Posted By WarsmithDave on 03/17/2007 5:02 PM
Good points about the seraphim. I just think paying nearly 1/3 of your points for 2 units of them is a bit steep. No matter what army I run I always want one unit that can handle itself well enough in cc with a unit of assault marines (example). However this is just my opinion concerning seraphim, heavily influenced by the fact that I only face power armour. If you do well enough without a dedicated assault unit then my hat is off to you.

Yeah, the steep points cost of both units is pretty worrysome (even though it keeps them alive longer). I just might take Frenrik's advice and drop both squads down to 6, and get rid of the special weapons for my Battle Squad Sister Superiors to see if I can squeeze in room for a Canoness with Eviscerator and jump pack. I'm definitely keeping the eviscerators on the Seraphim, though, as they give them some nice close combat punch and increases their vehicles-killing capability.

''10 Retribnutors- 10 heavy bolters, Sister Superior- 184''

I'm pretty sure you only get 4

Posted By pinkbunny on 03/17/2007 6:13 PM
''10 Retribnutors- 10 heavy bolters, Sister Superior- 184''

I'm pretty sure you only get 4

Yeah, I meant 4. Thanks for noticing that typo.

I like the second list more. I'm a big fan of the Seraphim personally. They can have longevity depending on when you use faith points and of course with how well you make all your rolls. The Hit & Run can give a great bonus when you're trying to make your way across the board fast. Always start of with even numbers for squad sizes. The minimum squad size, for Seraphim, that I take is 8.

Retributors are fun as well. I typically use 2 Exorcists with EA and 10 Retributors with VSS and 4 HB. Divine Guidance is a wonderful faith point for both Seraphim and Retributors.

I'd get rid of the luxury items such as Brazier and try switch H.Flamers into Meltaguns. Those Meltaguns could come in handy. Eviscerators are good. If you need the points switch them for Power Weapons.

A decent faith point count. The best I have done at 1500 is 10 faith points.

My recommendation is the second list. I have more experience with lots of Seraphim and Retribuots than a mechanized force so I admit that I have a bias. Have fun with the lists.

The problem with using six strong seraphin squads is it makes getting DG off that much harder, especially if you lose one or two. Not that big an issue with the inferno pistol squad, but should be something to consider on the flamer squads.