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I've decided that my next army will be Ravenwing. I like the look, and the style seems pretty unique. I am not overly concerned with winning 100% of the time, but don't want a total suckage army either - which is why I am here. I am trying to figure out how to equip my various squads.

I don't yet own the codex (LGS sold out on first day), but here is what I am ordering:
Master on jetbike
3x battleforces

That will give me 18 bikes, 3 attack bikes, and 3 landspeeders.

What I already own and plan to include in the list, points permitting is:
full squad of assault marines
ravenwing landspeeder squadrons (2 FA choices of 2 speeders each)
I also already own 3 old SM bikes, and am considering buying a box of RW bikes, for a total of 6 additional marines on bikes.

Here was my initial plan:
In HQ, Master on jetbike.. purely for "coolness" factor... I know the landspeeder is probably a better choice, but as I said.. I'm not out to win every game..

In my troops slots, I would purchase 3 full ravenwing squadrons (6 bikers, attack bike, landspeeder). The bikes would have 2x flamers. Attack bikes would have multi-meltas. Landspeeders would have HB/AC. The plan: Bikes and landspeeders provide majority of anti-infantry/swarm firepower. Attack bikes provide decent mobile anti-tank support.

In fast attack, I would purchase 2 squadrons of ravenwing landspeeders, each with 2 landspeeders, equipped with multi-meltas. Just like the attack bikes, these would provide some mobile anti-tank firepower. Points permitting, I would also purchase a full squad of assault marines, with 2x plasma pistols, and a vet. sgt. with power fist.

Alternatively, I could reverse the selections. Bikers get meltaguns, attack bikes and landspeeders all go HB (and AC where available). This would mean that I would need to get much closer to destroy armor, but would provide alittle more reliable AP4 anti-infantry coverage.

Some other things i was wondering about: Vet. Sgts. on the bike squads... should I give them power weapons, or power fists? With power fists, they look hella cool (IMO), but may not get to swing, since there won't be many models to hide behind. Secondly, how should I deploy the squads? Should I put the vet. sgt. and both special weapons in one group of 3, and 3 other barebones bikers in another group of 3? should I divide the special weapons between them? should I just use them as one large unit of 6? And lastly, is it worthwhile to upgrade a model to an Apothecary (would look very cool IMO), and a model to the standard bearer?

Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated!!

How many points are you planning on playing?

I can tell you that in 1750 there isn't a lot of room to fit much of anything your talking about. The big fully decked out bike squads, with attack bike and speeder cost a minimum of 370 points. Anyway you cut it, you won't have that many models.

As for the vets on bike, I would give them a power weapon. Not only does it let the vet ignore armor saves in HtH, but it also add an extra attack. I wouldn't take the power fist for the reasons you stated, and especially not when it costs 25 points.

I think a key point with raven wing is the fact that they can have so many small individual units. Not only does this give you a lot of scoring units, it also makes it hard for enemy to prioritize their targets. Having 6 or 7 land speeders all as individual units are a beautiful thing.

Although the apothecary and the standard bear would look cool, I don't think they are points well spent.

I have looked at doing similar with Raven and Deathwing. I do not know if the Standard bearer is worth it for Ravenwing, but the Apothecary is. All he has to do is allow you to make one failed save and he has over doubled his points back. You will role a one or two at sometime.

The only way the standard looks to be worth it is if you keep the squad at the larger size, then all the models receive the bonus, this also works for the Apothecary. Another good thing about keeping the squad at six man is it help mitigate the torrent of blows rule. If this unit is in three man squads, there are nice juicy targets to be picked off, while even regular hits will make hard choices for you since almost every model has some use. Good luck and I hope your army does well.

The Wraith

I think the standard bearer is worth it if you add a character or two to the squad.
That way the characters and the 6 marines get the extra attack.
With a first turn charge possibility this can be quite nasty.

O, and I think you should have at least one or two fists because there are times you really want them ( vs TMC lists ).

I think Ravenwing has some potential.

I would do something like this:

Sammeal

Deathwing Squad (to give you a decent assault element and another assault cannon)

2 full bike squads (I agree with you, powerfists are not worth it, you have such a low model count that most of the itme they will be wiped out before the fists swing)

3 single Land Speeder Squadrons w/ Assault Cannons

That will give you just under 1500 points. At 1850, you could probably fit another Deathwing Squad.

I kinda want to avoid mixing ravenwing/deathwing.. I want to keep the army themed around mobility and fast strikes (hence the assault marines). Despite the ability to deep strike, the deathwing are still footsloggers... goes against what I want to do with the army.

My main list would be aimed at 1850 points, or possibly 2000 (my LGS seems to be enjoying much larger games as of late).

So power weapons on the vets, got it. Still getting mixed reactions on the standard bearer and apothecary, though... right now I'm leaning towards taking them, because they will look cool (white bike in sea of black, and I have the icon from the new empire BSB... the angel of death, to use as the standard), and seem fairly useful... unless they changed something, the apothecary's abilities are still a 6" area of effect, so can benefit a squad near him.

err the ravenwing attack squadron with 6 bikes, land speeder, and attack bike is 315, and I think only about 360 if you give them 2 plasma guns and a power fist vet.

I personally like the Ravenwing but I would like to see at least 1 terminator squad with a flamer and a terminator librarian but thats just me. I like the combined arms approach

3 bike with a vet is 120, another 100 for 3 additional bikes, 50 for the attack bike, and the 100 for the speeder, thats 370 by my calculation.

Indeed.

A full unit with two plasma guns is 400 even. Tack on another 15/25 for a PW/PF.

Dual meltas is a better option tactically and cost-wise IMO, but I suppose it all depends on what you want the squad to do.

 

will is right. i am a long time RW player and i had to shelve my RW army as it is no longer legal, and no longer works the way i like to play fast bike/speeder armies.

the way the new dex is written RW is no longer intended to be a stand alone army. it is still just as fragile, costs more points(which equates to fewer models) and has far less firepower than it did before. although the new master on the jetbike is a great model and well equiped.

 

it's gained fearless which is great but it lost the jink save and skilled rider which isn't so great.

 

the added scout rule works well when combined with the DW (as the new dex inteds them to be) and you intend to assault with them.

if you want to combine RW with a standard DA force it can work to your advantage. if you want it as a stand alone fast speeder/bike army your better off going with white scars.

 

Skilled rider was the deciding factor IMO. Flying thru terrain without difficult T re-rolls is to costly when you lose even one bike. Eventually you have to assault somewhere and it more often than not involves assaulting thru or into cover. Going thru terrain also makes your bikes more survivable. I have often gone thru terrain and stop 6' short of the edge one turn to stay out of LOS and set up my shooting and assault for the next turn. The jink not so big of a nerf because of the new turbo boost rule but S-Rider put the list over the top in the not viable category. It's definatley designed (codex) to be combined (R-wing) with Deathwing.

By the way id take the jetbike over the landspeeder any day of the week. The back of the speeder is still very fragile even to bolters. The jetbike takes lascanon shots on the chin (for a while). I plan to usually be in cc on the first turn with him anyways.

 

Take all ravenwing attack squadrons in 1750 plus belial heck ya sign me up. Every model can be in cc on the first turn??? Im there.

thats one of the things that killed it for me as well, but mostly it was the total loss of any decent firepower to offset the small numbers and fragile nature of the army.

my old list had 17 bikes 9 tornados and the masters speeder (with all its special rules that are now gone) at 1850

giving me 21 heavy bolters, 10 assault cannons 17-twin linked bolt rifles(bike mounted) and 4 flamers........you cannot even come close to that kinda of firepower with the new dex.

just about all the lists i have seen come in with slightly more models and about half the firepower...most if it being bike mounted bolters.  it just isn't feasable to do it as a stand alone force anymore because you won't survive.  there is no balancer.

white scars still get the skilled rider option, 9 tornados and up to 3 tempests in one FOC if you play with FW models(i would the tempest is just awsome-and it is fluffy since they designed it)

 

 

as for the speeder VS the bike

in the old dex the speeder was much better but with the new rules and the removal of the speeders special rules the jet bike is a much better performer

Gabe - "I kinda want to avoid mixing ravenwing/deathwing.. I want to keep the army themed around mobility and fast strikes (hence the assault marines)."

Ravenwing works in a non tournament Dark Angels list, and is nasdty with Deathwing but is no good on its own. You pay way too much for too little with SM bikes, Ravenwing cost even more. The bikes work because they are a delivery system for Deathwing. Give one half squadron a powersword, the other a meltagun or flamer and thats it.

"Despite the ability to deep strike, the deathwing are still footsloggers... goes against what I want to do with the army."

You misunderstand how marines deploy, all chapter bikes - even the Whitescars - are not fast moving light cavalry, but an airmobile force. Bikes are deployed by Thunderhawks too, they are used for local mobility. Deathwing are not an anchor for Ravenwing but position holders. Ravenwing advance, Dethwing teleport in to hold objectives and point assault and Ravenwing move on. Ravenwing and Deathwing work hand in hand. This justfies their huge points costs.

The ravenwing list should start with some cheap choices to maximize its use of the few good things in the codex:

2 x naked predators with hb/autocannons
1 whirlwind

Go from there.

Let me take this opportunity also to say that those who say the powerfist is worthless in bike squads are clueless.

My fists were always the MVPs with my old ravenwing army (3 x 4 bikes with meltas, 3 attack bikes w/meltas, master on speeder w/2 speeders, 3 x 3 speeders).

Bikes would rush in, shoot things up, then charge and finish them off. They'd finish off vehicles with fist attacks, kill space marine squads with no fists, kill tau by the barrel, and so forth.

A T5 guy with a powerfist can do a serious number on anyone without a power weapon and a few bad rolls can make him take out a squad with a power weapon (as long as it ain't a fist -- odds of a marine sarge with pw killing a ravenwing sarge are about 50%).

Always buy the fist, especially since you already get the sarge.

I disagree with using a powerfist. You pay 120pts plus your upgrades for a three bike squad, anything you need a fist for will be able to trounce your small unit T5 or not. Ravenwing bikes should only assault units they can slaughter like light infantry, or to tie up something long enough for Deathwing to get into combat.

But without the Fist, they won't slaughter even light infantry in close combat. Four WS4 S4 attacks don't scare anyone. It's the Fist that does the killing. Against S3 opponents, three T5 models are as durable as six T4. Against S4 they're more like four and a half.

I'm with Longshot on this one.

I put fist on all my sgts. also. The increased T from the bike helps them stay around a little longer and with the exception of Daemon princes and GK grandmasters they have staying power most times. Full squads with meltas and attack bikes are also the way to go with all that twin linked bolter fire with meltas you can often TOF units and force saves on those hidden fists ect. especially within 12.

I can see powerfists on the vets if they cost 15 points like everyone else. 25? Hell no.

They'd be worth it at 35 imho.

It's extra tank busting, the ability to charge crisis suits or similar without fear, etc.

If your power weapon or no-weapon wielding guy wants to charge a havoc squad that's going to annihilate you next turn with missile launchers, what's going to happen? that's right, you're going to charge and lose combat.

Do it with a fist and you've got good odds of winning.

Shoot two meltaguns at a pred annihilator and miss them both, what're you gonna do without a fist? That's right. Die.

It will always pay for itself. Never had it do otherwise. Best example in my experience was an Iron warriors army I played in a tourney.

Terrain sucked and he went first, and I lost like 7 landspeeders and several bikes. I pulled out a tie - why? Because my bikes won combat with his shootie squads and popped extra vehicles with my fists. My opponent knew the landspeeders were the crux of my army - 12 of them total. But he neglected to finish off bike squads, so the fists ran rough shod through his army.

If you want to take on armor with close combat, why not just give him a melta bomb? As far as going into HtH, having 1 power fist isn't going to cut it. If the champion has a power weapon, or a CHEAPER power fist, he will eat through your 3 bikes before you can even hit back.

To each their own, I will not pay 25 points for a power fist when you may or may not use it.