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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/03/26 02:15:16
Subject: Imperial Guard 1500 Points
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Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot
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I've had a 1200 point list for my Guardsmen, but I felt it was time for a small expansion to the Emperor's hammer. Units in bold have not been purchased yet, so I'll gladly take any suggestions you all may have. Headquarters Command Platoon Command HQ JO w/ Iron Discipline Staff (4) w/ Missile Launcher Support Squad w/ 3 Autocannons Elites Storm Trooper Squad (5) w/ 2 Meltaguns, Deep Strike Storm Trooper Squad (5) w/ 2 Meltaguns, Deep Strike Hardened Veteran Squad (5) w/ 3 Meltaguns Troops Storm Trooper Grenadier Squad (8) w/ 2 Plasma Guns Storm Trooper Grenadier Squad (8) w/ 2 Plasma Guns Infantry Platoon Platoon HQ JO w/ Iron Discipline Staff (4) w/ Missile Launcher Squad Alpha w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Veteran Sergeant Squad Beta w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Veteran Sergeant Squad Delta w/ Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Veteran Sergeant Fast Attack Sentinel w/ Multilaser Sentinel w/ Multilaser Hellhound w/ Pintle Heavy Stubber Heavy Support Leman Russ w/ Hull Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons Leman Russ w/ Hull Lascannon, Heavy Bolter Sponsons I don't have my codex in front of me, but it comes in at about 1490 points. The general tactica is that the gunline (Infantry Platoon) will set up with the two Grenadier Squads and the PHQ and CHQ supporting from the rear, with the Infantry Platoon providing meatshield coverage to the more expensive stuff. The Elites all deep strike into the enemy line to take out their indirect weapons and heavy armor, while the Sentinels act as harasser units along one flank. I'm hoping that they (Sentinels) will survive long enough that they can be used to grab table quarters in the final turn of a game - I'm also considering upgrading their Multilasers to Autocannons or Lascannons. Any thoughts on that? The Russes will do their own thing - I won't let them lead an advance, but I definitely want to be aggressive with my tanks, since losing them doesn't mean I'm out of the fight, regardless of whether or not my opponent is fielding MEQ infantry or not. The Hellhound will provide the close-range anti-horde that I'll need against Tyranids and Orks. I didn't do a very good job converting my Rough Rider squad, so I'm going to use the fiery goodness of a Str. 6 flame template coupled with 6 Heavy Bolter/Stubber shots to act as my fire-suppression unit . Questions and comments welcome. CK
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill
Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/03/26 03:47:07
Subject: RE: Imperial Guard 1500 Points
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Unbalanced Fanatic
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A few of your assumptions seem flawed. "I'm hoping that they (Sentinels) will survive long enough that they can be used to grab table quarters in the final turn of a game - I'm also considering upgrading their Multilasers to Autocannons or Lascannons. Any thoughts on that?" Sentinals used aggressively die... quickly. Sometimes they can hide well enough to contest table quarters, but only if the enemy is under enough pressure to not try and hunt them down. But yes, I find the lascannons to be more usefull than the multilasers. "The general tactica is that the gunline (Infantry Platoon) will set up with the two Grenadier Squads and the PHQ and CHQ supporting from the rear, with the Infantry Platoon providing meatshield coverage to the more expensive stuff." Two things about this setup. First of all, if your PHQ and CHQ are both equipped with direct fire weapons and positioned so they can use them, a smart enemy will make them a priority infantry target. It doesn't take a lot of firepower to kill 10 guardsmen. Once they are dead your army is LD 7 and will start to run away. If your HQs are hidden and aren't using their heavy weapons then you are wasting points on them. I'd bulk up your CHQ by giving it a standard bearer and a mortar(optional - but I like it). This unit hides and doing so keeps the rest of your army in place. The second thing. The two Grenadier plasma squads are too expensive and useful to be kept as a reserve force. I find them to be good at holding forward positions that you don't want fast enemies hiding behind. Alternately they are good at either end of your infantry position, protecting the flanks against fast H2H troops. "The Russes will do their own thing - I won't let them lead an advance, but I definitely want to be aggressive with my tanks, since losing them doesn't mean I'm out of the fight, regardless of whether or not my opponent is fielding MEQ infantry or not." The Russ is a good tank with a lot of vulnerabilities. I'd use them as infantry support and mobile bunkers that your sentinals cans use to screen them while they advance. I like the Deep Strike element. are the Melta Vets going that way too? If not then how will you use them? Overall looks like a pretty well rounded list.
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The 21st century will have a number of great cities. You’ll choose between cities of great population density and those that are like series of islands in the forest. - Bernard Tschumi |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/03/26 04:48:36
Subject: RE: Imperial Guard 1500 Points
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Dakka Veteran
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I like the list. The hellhound is a good choice. I do have a general question however. If as a guard player, you rarely face Terminators or high AV vehicles, would missile launchers be a better choice that a lascannon?
One Q regarding the list:
Why do you take a lascannon on the hull of your leman russes?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/03/26 06:44:58
Subject: RE: Imperial Guard 1500 Points
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Take the direct-fire heavy weapons out of your HQs -- as Samwise pointed out, if they can be seen and shot, they will be gone faster than you can say "fragmissile". If you want to beef them up, add some assault weapons -- they can hide until the enemy closes, then add some firepower to your gunline.
Instead of the 'Hound, you could consider finding a few extra points (like your autocannons squad) and giving Chimerae to your two Grenadiers units. This will give you the added option of transporting them if needed, give you two tanks that can reach out and touch something at 36" rather than the 24" of the Inferno, and that don't scream "shoot me before you get close" to the opponent the way the 'Hound does.
I really like the list, though -- characterful and Guardlike, not too min-maxed.
Oh, and on the Sentinel thing -- totally up to you. Between the Russes, 3 lascannon-toting squads, and the rain of meltagunners, you should be OK on anti-tank. Whether the multi-laser or autocannon is better depends on your common opponents/the purpose of the sentinels. If they're gonna hide to contest table quarters, stick with the cheaper multilaser. If they may stand, shoot as best they can, and die, get a little more bang for your buck with the autocannon.
-Adso
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/03/26 12:54:47
Subject: RE: Imperial Guard 1500 Points
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Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot
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Thanks all for the quick responses. Now, in response to your questions:
@Samwise: I don't intend to use the Sentinels aggressively, but at the same time, I'm not planning on hiding them. At this point, I see them as more of a wild card unit - they can prove incredibly effective at grabbing a table quarter in Turn 6, or even reduce an enemy squad to non-scoring just in time to tally up who's controlling an objective. Granted, they have no resiliency to speak of, and are fairly slow for what is supposed to be a fast recon unit, but I like them because of the tactical freedom they present me, even if their potency remains to be a lacking factor.
The logic behind my PHQ and CHQ each having direct fire weapons is that they are minimalist units, and are being fielded strictly to allow me to pack an extra anti-tank weapon. All of my line squads are led by Veteran Sergeants, and all of the Storm Troopers and Veterans are Ld 8 anyway. The two command squads only are valuable because of their Iron Discipline ability, which is worth losing if my opponent is going to focus a significant portion of his army's firepower on the destruction of these 10 Guardsmen. I haven't ruled out swapping their Missile Launchers for assault weapons though, and right now I'm thinking that they'd make fine additions to my suicide drop infantry Meltagun units (of which the 3-Melta Vet Squad is already a part of). If not, they'll be Flamer countercharge, or maybe double-Plasma anti-MEQ charging units.
I should have noted that the two 8-man Storm Trooper Squads are not reserve forces. I plan on using them, but in a straight fight where I'm going to need something to stop the five Terminators in a Land Raider from barreling out and straight into my army, I plan to keep at least one back to that they can sally forth at the last turn and unleash a (x2) doubletap of BS4 Plasma on the baddies that would otherwise tear my gunline a new one. The BS4 Hellgun suppression is surprisingly more effective than people give it credit. Even against high-save units like Marines or Terminators, They increase kill-efficiency by up to 33%.
@rryannn: I don't think I'm a good person to ask when it comes to the Missile Launcher versus Lascannon. Since the first three games I played with my Guardsmen were at 1000 points, involved Iron Warriors, a Land Raider, and a 5-man Terminator squad, I'll vouchsafe on the Lascannon every time. In fact, my old organization had the gunline squads with an Autocannon and a Plasma Gun each, with the 3 Lascannons acting as an anti-tank squad. I realized the importance of immense amounts of high-AP fire when my opponent dumped out 5 Terminators only 6" from my frontline squad.
I also recommend using Meltaguns instead of Flamers as your countercharge special weapon of choice if you fight a lot of Marines with Terminators. Having one of the Storm Trooper Squads with Meltaguns in the backfield saved my butt three different times in that game.
I took the Hull Lascannon on the first Russ because when I built it, I thought it would be a good idea to have a secondary offensive weapon in the event the Battlecannon every kicked the bucket. It also appealed to me to have a more reliable anti-tank weapon on my MBTs. The kit was an old one at that, and only had options for a Lascannon and a Heavy Flamethrower, as well as only two HBs, which I ultimately put on the side sponsons. The second tank is emulating the first for redundancy purposes.
Brother Adso: One of the few guidelines I gave myself when I was making this list was that I wanted to theme the army around the concept that they are master infantrymen (Their standard soldiers are Storm Troopers and their Conscripts are regular Guardsmen, hence, no actual Conscripts in this list), and are adept at urban combat, preferring to leave their transports behind where they can shuttle supplies, men, and weapons to the front lines. Hellhounds follow this ideology, since they are urban support units designed to clear out enemy forces entrenched in positions that would be impossible to take with a mere infantry charge. My army's Russes are supposed to me close-support vehicles, but I strayed somewhat from this by neglecting to give them Heavy Flamethrowers on the Hull or Sponsons.
I agree with you that mobility is a good idea. However, Chimeras are too fragile for my tastes, and I usually play on a dense enough board that I can avoid enemy contact until I see fit to engage.
Thanks again for all the feedback.
CK
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"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling, which thinks that nothing is worth war, is much worse. The person, who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stuart Mill
Black Templars (8000), Imperial Guard (3000), Sanguinary Host (2000), Tau Empire (1850), Bloodaxes (3000) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2007/03/27 13:16:27
Subject: RE: Imperial Guard 1500 Points
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Dakka Veteran
The Hammer
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Don't forget about the drop capability of those multi-laser sentinels - 3 S6 shots in the flank can ruin almost any tank's day.
Sane additions. Army looks good, though still a tad light on infantry for my taste...to fill in those last few points, if your actual total is 1487 or lower, I'd actually vote to scratch the pintle heavy stubber from the hellhound and buy the PHQ the HI. (cmon guy - you know you want that cheap, cheap LD10)
BTW with a Hellhound in your force, it might not actually be a bad idea to expand with IFVs to 1750 or whatever. If AV12 is fragile, ditch the hellhound, the heavy stubber, and downgrade those hull lascannon to heavy bolters to crowbar in another Russ! Vehicle kits all cost about the same - might as well collect for target saturation. Besides, we all know that fluff of yours started out as a justification to avoid having to paint those extra nine bodies to hit platoon strength...(j/k)...more Panzer, less Grenadiere!
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When soldiers think, it's called routing. |
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