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After some months playng 40k (since October!!), and some games with 1500 pts, i decided to go further...and add 200pts to my army list (well...it wasn't really me...the local store tournament will expand to 1700 ...)

So, please, tell me what you think!

1 Farseer (HQ) @ 80 Pts
     Doom [25]

6 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 96 Pts
   
7 Harlequin Troupe (Elites) @ 198 Pts
     Harlequin's Kiss (x5)
     1 Shadowseer
          Harlequin's Kiss;

9 Dire Avengers (Troops) @ 152 Pts
     1 Exarch
          2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults
          Bladestorm
     1 Wave Serpent @ [120] Pts
          Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Linked Shuriken Cannon
          Spirit Stones

10 Guardian Defender Squad (Troops) @ 95 Pts
          Scatter Laser

10 Guardian Defender Squad (Troops) @ 95 Pts
          Scatter Laser

7 Warp Spiders (Fast Attack) @ 218 Pts
     1 Exarch
          Powerblades; 2 Deathspinners
          Withdraw

1 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 60 Pts
     Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Shuriken Cannon

1 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 60 Pts
     Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Shuriken Cannon

1 Falcon (Heavy Support) @ 185 Pts
     Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; Scatter Laser; Pulse Laser
     Spirit Stones
     Holo-fields

1 Falcon (Heavy Support) @ 185 Pts
     Linked Shuriken Catapults; Starcannon; Pulse Laser
     Spirit Stones
     Holo-fields

1 Wraithlord (Heavy Support) @ 155 Pts
     Flamer (x2); Bright Lance; Missile Launcher

Models in Army: 61


Total Army Cost: 1699


The Guardians, the Wlord and the Doomseer, will be deployed together, in a area where the guardians can have some cover. This will be my stactial fire support.
The Fire Dragons will ride the Falcon with Starcannon (or the one with the Scatter&Shurican...i think it will depend of  the eneny)
The Spiders will support the Avengers in the Wave, while the Vypers will support the Harlies

This is my (maybe not so good...) strategie.

What do you think?

(Sorry for the bad english)

cut the harlies by two and let them ride in the 2nd falcon, with the points left over give both falcons and the wave serpent vectored engines.

Why does everyone advise for Harlies to have a Falcon transport? We buy the Shadowseer for a reason right?

In regards to the list, ElSapo, I really like it. Seems very balanced and the fact that you have almost every choice available in the codex is really cool. One question, are your Guardians effective?

I agree with strafed. The Shadowseer is the delivering system for Harlies. Cheaper than a Falcon...and with plasma grenades!
If i choose to transport them in a Falcon, i would remove the Shadowseer and give them a Troupe Master with PW (or maybe both...because of the plasma g!). I think 6 is too small...and every casualitie will remove a kiss. So, using 8 Harlies with 6 kiss (one is with the Seer), i will remove 2 "naked" Harlies before it realy hurts!

The guardians!...well...I like them! They are effective...for what you pay for! For 95pts you'll have a 10W unit with a 4 S6 shoots. Put them in cover and they will survive long enough. They will be death! You can beat on that!...but that is why i use them deploy them correctly and they will hold lots of punhisment!...In a older list i used 3 squads of 10 w/ Scatter...by Mathammer, 2 death marines/turn!

We have been over this before,

The shadowseer is NOT a delivery system. This game is no longer a game of static armies that face off and blast away at each other. (unless your 'nids) The massive prolification of mechanized, highly moble lists in 4th prevent the veil from ever doing that job. Mechanized Infantry, Fast Gunships, Pods, Guess Ordinance the lists of things that can get close and level the squad is endless. Falcons ensure they get to their target safe and sound.

the Shadowseer is an insurance measure incase the math blows up in your face. (i.e. you accidentally K.O. the opposing squad in 1 round)

Posted By IntoTheRain on 04/18/2007 11:55 AM
Guess Ordinance

 

Still can't target harlies under the VoT.  I agree with everything else, though.  Put your harlies in a falcon and take the seer for his plasma grenades.

I don't play Eldar, so no practical experience here.

But VoT seems like as good a delivery system as hiding in cover. IOW, makes it harder to target them, and makes you think twice about trying.

Even with mech infantry, you have to get within easy assaulting range before you shoot; and that is a gamble. If even 3-4 harlies survive, they can make mince-meat our of an infantry unit.

In practice it's not very hard to get a shot at harlequins in the open. I played against a couple of armies based on massed (20-30) harlequins at Adepticon, and even with fortune and good rolls on saves, 65-75% of them died to shooting.

Harlies are as fragile as every other Eldar.
I'll not try to cross the board with a Harlies unit...even with VoT. It would be suicide! Using cover is the key! They ignore difficult terrain, so they wouldn't have a problem to cross a 5" florest..and then fleet (again, ignoring difficult terrain) and charge 6"!

Maybe I'll try both units, and then i'll figure wich is better!

What about the rest of the list?

Hmmm, on the rest of the list, I'm not sure what 10 guardians with a scatterlaser are going to accomplish that can't be accomplished better by all the str6 shooting on the skimmers. But 10 guardians with a missile launcher (for 5 pts more per unit) can do antitank, plink at carnifexes, shoot AP4 plasma missiles at clustered fire warriors, kill the odd marine in the open--and they can do it from a longer (i.e. safer) range.

Not clear on what the farseer's role is. He has to get close if he's going to doom things, which comes with its own set of problems. If he's just there to babysit the Wraithlord, a warlock in one of the guardian squads is a cheaper option. If you want a cheap HQ, maybe look at a cheap autarch with fusion gun to ride with the dragons (reducing their unit to 5).

problem with guardians are their bs 3, so one shot weapons will average 3 hits per game. give them 24 shots per game with scatter laser, they'll hit something.

That's why you take 2 of them.

But don't take my word for it.  Try the army out and if you find that 44 long-range str6 shots is overkill but only 2 long-range str8 shots is inadequate for tankhunting, then the place to make the switch to more str8 is with the guardians.

Posted By Flavius Infernus on 04/21/2007 5:44 AM

problem with guardians are their bs 3, so one shot weapons will average 3 hits per game

That's why you take 2 of them.

But don't take my word for it.  Try the army out and if you find that 44 long-range str6 shots is overkill but only 2 long-range str8 shots is inadequate for tankhunting, then the place to make the switch to more str8 is with the guardians.

well he has 2x falcons, an anti-tank wraithlord, a squad of fire dragons, and harlequins with rending. that looks like enough tank hunters to me.

if you feel that this is still not enough, id put the eml on the vypers, they can fly around get in position to take shots, and hunt side/back armor.

i

Yeah! Taoofs is wrigth! I will never give a single shoot weapon to a guardian squad. Scatter or Sh Cann are the best choice for a guardian squad.  Starcannon is expensive!

I play a similar list last nigth, against swarm Nids. It was 1800pts list, but the only diference was a extra guradian squad.. The result was a drawn.

The overall performance of the lista, was good. I'm pleased with it. Harlequins are great! They kill 3 Zoanthorpes, a squad of 3 warriors and a squad of 10 Gargoyles.

Maybe i'll remove the WLord and one of the Falcons and use 2 Fire Prisms. If i'll do that, i'll give a EML to the WS.

I'm considering drop the Spiders squad for another of Harlies. What do you think?