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Hi guys,
Here is my second take on an all out melee list with tyranids. It's themed that way so please no suggestions to "dakka-it-up".

So here is goes

HQ

Hive Tyrant, winged, Adrenal Glands (I and WS), Toxin Sacs,  Implant attack, Flesh hooks, Warp Field, 2x Scything Talons
213 points

5 Warriors, leaping, extended carapace, adrenal glands (I), rending claws and scything talons
190 points

Elite

4 Warriors, leaping extended carapace, adrenal glands (I) rending claws and scything talons
152 points

Lictor
80 points

Troops

8 Genestealer , extended carapace, scything talons
192 points  

8 Genestealer, extended carapace
160 points

10 Hormagaunts, adrenal glands (I)
110 points

12 Hormagaunts , adrenal glands (I)
132 points

Fast

3 Spore mines, bio acid
36 points

1 Ravener, rending claws and scything talons
40 points

Heavy Support

3 Zoanthropes, Warp Blast, Psychic Scream (unsure if Synapse is not better)
195 points

1500 points total

Well, that's it. I know it's pretty weak against skimmer lists, but I juts love the image of Tyranids clawing their way through the enemy lines. I hope the Winged Hive Tyrant can kill/bind the most dangerous foes. The Hormagaunts will run headlong against shooty squads and with they 19-24" charge range can avoid rapid fire range alltogether. Hope that is enough to give the rest time to close to the enemy without being to badly shot down.

Would you have fun/ hard time against it?

Greets
Schepp himself

I always have fun regardless of whether I win or lose, so, yes, I would have fun against it. As for a hard time, I don't think my eldar would have a hard time against it, but only because every unit in my 1500 Eldar army can either fleet or is in a transport (actually I only have two units in transports, 1 Falcon and 1 Wave Serpent), although they wouldn't easily win against it either. I think really the key to beating any Tyranid army is engaging it on your terms instead of their terms. If you can do that, then you stand a pretty good chance of winning. If not, you're screwed.

I think I would try to make the list move a little faster...

More raveners, less lictors. Give everything scuttling, that can take it. Maybe drop 2 zoanthropes to get more bodies in the list, and give the last one synapse (a back up to the hive tyrant). Maybe find a way to put spine guants in there instead... you still get the effect of a horde of clawing bugs, but this way you can actually feild a horde. If you are worried about skimmers.. perhaps remove all the zoanthroes and get a venom cannon on the tyrants and perhaps a 2nd tyrant.

No way is there any venomcannon-toting bug finding itself in my lines.

Making it a bit faster...mhh...I will play with my army list a bit. The Lictor is in the list because I like it so much...I mean hey, stylewise it's a bomb, admit it!

I fear to drop the zoanthropes in numbers, because I seriously lack any 2+ or 3+ troops. The Ap fire will surely find it's way to crush the zoanthropes. And three of them seem like a decent bet that some will survive to get some S10 bolts off (anti tank and stuff).
The Synapse isn't bad I think, the warriors should be in the second wave and support the hormagaunts just when they start to lose combats. And if the AP4 fire is wittling down the warriors, then the Genestealer will be happy and start rending... thats the plan anyway.

Thanks for comments so far!

Greets
Schepp himself

I would also drop the Zoans, you have plenty of tank busting already. Any Nid brood with rending will take apart a tank, and the Flyrant will kill them without breaking a sweat. Besides, once you are in CC, the tanks can't shoot you.

And what about skimmers? I don't have anything that can touch/catch them except the zoanthropes. Ignoring them will be an option, but I guess I can't power than tactic through all the time.

Greets
Schepp himself

I think it is a pretty decent list.

Just remember, you can't fleet with leaping Warriors.

I think the list is a little too Warrior heavy. I would stick with one unit and use the points to get another Raveneger or two. I would also drop the spore mines as they are unreliable.

Your fast attack should be 3 squads of 2 Ravengers. That will serve you better then the warriors, I think.

To be honest, I would take out the warriors and the Lictor and throw in an infiltrating Broodlord and retinue of 11 genestealers. Being able to start 12" away from your opponent out of LOS is priceless. Or at the least 18" away in LOS. This will cause your opponent to focus his fire mainly on this unit, thus allowing you to move the rest of your stuff in quick. Honestly, I would ignore skimmers. As long as you are in HTH they can't hurt you.

Mhh...I suppose you're right, the faster ravener are only slightly more expensive than the warriors (2 points) with more attacks (4 to 3), but with a worse armor save.

The only problem will be to keep the hormagaunts in line. I don't want to gamble the flying Tyrant to keep some lousy gaunst fearless, but with this aspect of the army crumbling, it can cost points fast.

The Lictor combined with the spore mines makes them rather reliable. It's highly likely that the spore mines arrive on turn 2 and can kill some members of a devestator squad (or equivalents). Three barrage templates have a decent chance of hitting due to the fact that you can choose where to place the second and third marker (most of the time).

With a full melee Army, the enemy can easily "screen" his shooty squats against melee assaults. No chance for me to get through.

But I agree that the warriors, lictor and spore mines are a somewhat expensive combo. The Warrior squads are mainly in the list because I have the models and also like them (same with the Lictor)

I also played with the idea to dumb down the Hive tyrant (so without warp field, adrenal glands and implant attacks) so I can buy some more Raveners. Do you think he can do something good even without those updates?

The Broodlord idea ain't that bad, but it's a pretty expensive bulletcatcher for my taste. The slowness of the Broodlord made him a no-go for me. Maybe I will try him out. I have a model lying around somewhere.

Greets
Schepp himself

Get rid of the spore mines, go for Forgeworld Meiotic Spore Sacks. 3 for 105 points, always deep strike, pie plate. Gold.

Broodlord has never worked for me, other than as a very expensive fire magnet. In five games, he made it to combat only once. He's too slow, infiltrate notwithstanding.

Yeah, I played with the idea of the big spore mines. Only the price is scaring me away. FW prices in Germany are even higher than in the UK/USA.
Especially the 2D6+5 Armor penetration persuades me.

But 36 Points for the Spore mine swarm ain't that expensive after all.

Greets
Schepp himself

If it were my list, I'd work in a couple of venom cannons for anti-skimmer. Since you're dead-set against them, I'd say screw the skimmers, and just go all-out on speed.

To keep with your theme I'd drop the bigger squad of warriors, the zoanthropes, the spore mines, and a squad of those pricey stealers. Instead I'd beef up the hormagaunts into S4 I5 deathgaunts and take a friggin' PILE of them.

The list I lost to in the final round of the Boston GT had two squads of 32 of these bastards, and I just couldn't shoot them fast enough. At 1500 you can't fit in quite that many, but if you take a real horde of them and just pile them into combat, they should be able to beat most things in combat, reducing the need for synapse.

Oh...that's a...different approach.
Yeah, Venom Cannons could be golden against skimmers, but what can you do?

The Deathgaunts sounds interesting, but personally, they are very very fragile for their cost. I mean the Gaunts I use are already 11 Points and die like flees. Sure, the look of a 32 brood of them is nice, but my plan was to tie some things up with them, thus blocking line of sight and negating the possibility to fire for those squats.

I agree though, that the list seems to need more bodies, though.

Thanks for the comment!

Greets
Schepp himself

when i had my Gaunt based list it consisted of 64 hormies split up as was required, a flying tyrant, some warriors 4 good measure, and i had a fex in thr... tho you wud b goin 4 raveners instead for their speed... usually made people cry as each gaunt got a stupid amount of attacks on the charge... eg, enough to make marine squads cry... even had cases of 5 man termie squads losing to a 32 strong brood...

but then, i only had the flying tyrent to kill tanks, and skimmers always buggered me...

Don't dismiss those HGaunts. With those two upgrades, they can really chew through a lot of opponents. While they are a bit more fragile than the stealers, they have assault range of 19-24". That means they never need to be in rapid fire range, unlike the stealers. Plus, folks keep underestimating how much distance they can cover, and will shoot something else that is 'scarier'.

OTOH, realize that they have 'only' S4, and no rending. No matter how many you throw at a Wraithlord, it will just laugh; and it will take 8 charging to kill a Termie. So you will need stealers/raveners to back them up. And they need synapse.

For skimmers..... you could use winged warriors. Or use gargoyles, and just never shoot.

hmmm, tru... i ran the maths... 32 Hguants, kills 4 termies in the first round of combat, which you get first bc you have a higher initiative... pretty tasty???

Hm...While I agree that pimped up hormies are surprisingly effective, especially due to their huge attack range, I don't think they are the weapon for all tasks. Especially Terminators can be brought down by rending creatures (be that warriors,raveners or genestealer) pretty good. No need to go the "torrent of attack"- route there. Most of the points you pay for a hormagaunt are for the attack speed anyway. For me it's only logical that you use them as a tie up unit in the first place. Killing stuff is a welcomed bonus, but not more.

But to another topic: What is you guys opinion on the Flyrant layout? Shall I use the decked out one or save 50 or so points and run him just plain out of the stock?

Greets
Schepp himself

I will answer your list in accordance with your style.

HQ

Hive Tyrant, winged, Adrenal Glands (I and WS), Toxin Sacs,  Implant attack, Flesh hooks, Warp Field, 2x Scything Talons
213 points

Here is where I first disagree with you. I would drop most of these upgrades. In my opinion the best flyrants are 'cheap' 143pts with two scytalons and toxin sacs. The only other upgrade I would consider is Psychic Scream.

Why? Your monster is winged so he picks his targets. All the upgrades beyond his normal five close combat attacks are largely wasted. S6 is nice, but against non MeQ can be omitted (new price 131pts). Everything else is designed to help take out characters. This is a mistake. Genestealers have the statline to kill IC's, flyrants slaughter rank and file. sure youcan go talon to toe with a chaos lord or marine commander. But why do so, he may well have some nasty wargear that will ruin your day.

5 Warriors, leaping, extended carapace, adrenal glands (I), rending claws and scything talons
190 points

Well grown, though I would stick at two broods of three tops. They are needed mainly for synapse cover as the flyrant will be elsewhere.

Elite

4 Warriors, leaping extended carapace, adrenal glands (I) rending claws and scything talons
152 points

Again cut the brood to three.

Lictor
80 points

I will go against the flow of advice and say keep the Lictor. Without your shooty elements you need something that will get up front and tie up an enemy shooty unit. It doesnt need to win.

Troops

8 Genestealer , extended carapace, scything talons
192 points  

Drop the scytalons. On a pointys per attack they look like good news, but buy more stealers instead.

8 Genestealer, extended carapace
160 points

10 Hormagaunts, adrenal glands (I)
110 points

Drop the adrenal glands, gaunts are needed only to tie up the enemy until bigger bugs arrive.

12 Hormagaunts , adrenal glands (I)
132 points

Fast

3 Spore mines, bio acid
36 points

Largely worthless. Spore mines fill up one of your precious FA slots.

1 Ravener, rending claws and scything talons
40 points

You need more, at least two broods.

Finally get flying warriors, they are needed to provide fast backup for the flyrant, who weill not last on his own. Give them +1I, rending and scytal. 41pts each.

Heavy Support

3 Zoanthropes, Warp Blast, Psychic Scream (unsure if Synapse is not better)
195 points

You dont need synapse with the warriors you have. I question why you want Zoanthropes, as they 'shoot'.

If you rid yourself of them and make 95pts of savings elsewhere try a Trygon. Its big, fast, very nasty in close combat and would act as a centerpiece for your army.

Interesting post, Orlanth.

Excellent advice on the Flyrant. I always thought that he should be able to kill every single model, either IC, MC or rank and file, but your argument is valid indeed.

Amen on the Lictor, that was the reason I would like to have him in my lines (apart form he style reasons)

The scything talons on the Genestealers were a modeling choice. Needed the redning claws for other bugs, the option seemed pretty decent...on thing lead to another...

Flaying warriors are interesting, but the reasons you stated contradict your first comment about the flyrant, if he chooses his fights, he shouldn't be in trouble anyways. And it's not that my army is that slow anyway. Flying warriors may be a bit faster, but my whole army is between the enemy in no time. And for 41 points a pop...I don't know...T4 with 5+ Save seems like a nasty combination to me, especially because they are in rapid fire range when they can attack. I ignore the use of cover in this case.

What do you suggest on Raveners? 2x2 or 2x1?

No love for the spore mines, eh? Well...I can understand that. Pretty gimmicky.

To the shooty aspect of the Zoanthropes: I don't like the imagine of Tyranids "holding a gun"...the image of a psychic blast doens't strike me as that offensive. I also think that the spine bank of the Carnifex is ok...but sadly a melee Carnifex is so overwhelmingly bad...

The Trigon is indeed nice...That guy and the big spore mines would be the first things from forge world. I am still a bit bitter that the ordinary Carnifex can't be a close combat monster like the trygon...

Thanks a lot for the imput! All of you that is.

Greets
Schepp himself

I have proved over and again the effectiveness of the CCfex in my army list.  To be totally honest, He doesn't ALWAYS get into battle, but he doesn't have to (although when he does, it's rather fun <evil grin&gt.  Many, many things will flee from a S10 T7 W5 fex.  It's all in how you use it.  and don't be afraid to use it either.  It's insanely survivable against most things.  And if you have enough fast things to tie up the enemy, it is easily there to mop up the rest.  I can not stress enough the advantage of Biovores with this situation.  With those two units, you can effectively control much of the enemy's movement.  A little strategy goes a long way.  But hey, that's me and it works for me.  Just a thought.