Switch Theme:

Help me make a decision please, IG 1750  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Hey guys,
 
I was under the impression that if any element of the platoon is in reserve than all elements of the platoon had to be in reserve.  In a recent thread in the YMDC, I'm convinced that the US GTs will allow me to deep strike platoon elements individually.
 
So here is the conundrum, here is my list, and I can't figure out which options I should take.
 
Current list:
Doctrines:  Drop Troops, Veterans, Close Order Drill
 
HQ:  
junior w/Honorific, + veteran w/Banner (76)
    chimera w/multilaser, HBolter, HStubber (97)
Sentinel w/multilaser (45)
Grey Knight Brother captain w/ PHood, PCannon (111)
 
Elites:
5 veterans w/ 3 plasma (75)
5 veterans w/3 melta (75)
 
Troops:
Platoon command squad (40)
IG w/lascannon, plasma (95)
IG w/lascannon, plasma (95)
IG w/lascannon, plasma (95)
 
Iron fist squad w/lascannon, plasma (95)
    chimera w/multilaser, Hbolter, HStubber (97)
 
Fast Attack:
Hellhound (115)
Hellhound (115)
Sentinel w/multilaser (45)
 
Heavy support:
Basilisk w/ indirect (125)
Russ w/Lascannon, sponson HBolter (165)
Demolisher w/Hull HBolter, sponson plasma cannon, extra armor, dozer blade, somke, search light (189)
 
Exactly 1750
Doctrines:  Drop Troops, Veterans, Close Order Drill
 
HQ:  
junior w/Honorific, + veteran w/Banner (76)
    chimera w/multilaser, HBolter, HStubber (97)
Sentinel w/multilaser (45)
Grey Knight Brother captain w/ PHood, PCannon (111)
 
Elites:
5 veterans w/ 3 plasma (75)
5 veterans w/3 melta (75)
 
Troops:
Platoon command squad (40)
IG w/lascannon, plasma (95)
IG w/lascannon, plasma (95)
IG w/lascannon, plasma (95)
 
Iron fist squad w/lascannon, plasma (95)
    chimera w/multilaser, Hbolter, HStubber (97)
 
Fast Attack:
Hellhound (115)
Hellhound (115)
Sentinel w/multilaser (45)
 
Heavy support:
Basilisk w/ indirect (125)
Russ w/Lascannon, sponson HBolter (165)
Demolisher w/Hull HBolter, sponson plasma cannon, extra armor, dozer blade, somke, search light (189)
 
Exactly 1750
Here are some options:
 
1: Swap the Pcannon for the strom bolter on the grey Knight (-30), swap hull lascannon for hull heavy bolter on the Russ (-10), + 4 special weapons (10 points each) for the infantry command squad and use them as another drop squad.
Pro: avoide rule issues regarding Pcannon (ie, shooting at turbo boosted bikes, does it ignore cover saves?), gain another unit for deep striking goodness, reduce grey knight cost
Con: Loss of Pcannon, loss of another lascannon (reducing the overall number of lascannon in the army to 4!)
 
2: Swap hull lascannon for hull heavy bolter for the russ (-10), swap the demolish for a russ with 3 heavy bolters (-34), +4 special weapons for the infantry command squad, spend 4 points somewhere else, (smoke + search lights on something?).
Pro: Get to keep Pcannon, reduce overall vehicle cost, keeping the russes focused with 3 heavy bolters each, gain another long range ordnance
Con: Loss of demolisher's S10 AP2 pie plate, loss of 2 plasma cannons, loss of demolisher's durability, loss of another lascannon
 
 
3: Swap the grey knight (111) for another squad of vets with 3 special weapon (75), (111 - 75), 36, look for 4 points from somewhere (smoke and search light off of the demolisher?), add in 4 special weapons for the command squad.
Pro: Gain 2 more deep striking units for killing, gain another scoring unit
Con: Loss of grey knight, vulnerability to fear of darkness
 
These are the only 3 things I can think of that would be relatively easy to change and allow me enough time to paint and assemble the models.  The infantry platoon command squad in the current list isn't doing anything.  They kind of provide another LD bubble for units, but with Close order Drill (COD), I can give infantry squads LD 8 if I put them in base to base. 
 
I really like the psycannon, but it also tend to cause more rule discussions than I'd care to deal with, so maybe dropping it would be a good thing...
 
I just can't decide.  That's why I'm asking for help.
 
Also, what weapons should the command squad take?  Plasma guns or melta guns?  They are going to die either way next turn if they drop.  I'm leaning towards all plasma guns for the command squad so they have longer range in case they can't deep strike.
Thanks.
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I'm not sure why exactly you're taking the grey knight as an ally. I mean I guess I understand wanting to avoid fear and all, it gives my guard army fits too, but I'm not sure it's really worth it. You've got a good load out on your JO w/ honor and the standard. Hopefully the rerollable high leadership should be enough.

It seems to me like you're spending a lot of points just trying to combat fear with no other goals in mind. Sure he's a good character w/ a psycannon but he doesnt have much syngegy with your list. He's also quite costly for a single wound chap.

Anyways, if you must try and stop fear I would suggest an inquisitor. First off, he's not a knight so daemons dont get the sustained assault rule from him being there, correct me if I'm wrong. It'd be a shame if you prevented fear only to get clobbered by daemonbomb, no?

Price wise the inquisitor stacks up about the same. You have two options here: HQ or elite. Elite will only run you 70 points w/ psycannon and hood or 90 w/ termi armor. Of course he's only LD 8 so its really not that good at stopping fear. So if we're trying to stop fear, elite looks like no go.

HQ will cost you more, but he's got a better LD. 95 points for an HQ inq w/ hood and psycannon. I recommend emperor's tarot too. Rerolling first turn can be great. It helps a ton against dropping or podding armies and in escalation can be fun. With tarot he costs the same as your grey knight buddy with a worse save, but with tarot and three times as many wounds.

Unfortunately, we need a retinue for the HQ inq: 3 minimum. I'd vote 3 mystics so you can shoot at deepstrikers/ podders/ daemons. It works wonder's with a demolisher. Lots of people wont drop as close if all their troops might get shot by an AP 2 blast on the way in. I use an elite inq for this purpose and run him really cheap w/ tarot and some mystics and just stick him next to the demolisher for good times. Back to the point, with three mystics it's now a 128 point inquisitor. Not sure where the extra points are going to come from, you could drop the lascannon from the russ for some points. Or you could skip tarot entirely and just take the mystics that way he's only 113 and not too over budget.

As far as spec weapons in platoon hq's and dropping in general both plasma and meltas are good. As you've already got some meltas in the vets to pop tanks I'd go with plasma as they are better all around and way better against infantry or meqs. Flamers are also really nice and cheap. With 3-4 flamers you can kill quite a few marines if you get good template coverage. Another options would be Spec weapons attached to your HQ. 2 flamers and a demo charge is a really cheap, really potent unit. The flamers are nice and the possibility of a AP 2 blast going where you want it can be great. Heck, if they pop some termies they've way more than paid their points back.

If you drop a sentinel and downgrade the las to a hull hvy bolter  you can put 4 plasma in your platoon HQ and change your grey knight to a HQ inq w/ tarot, hood, psycannon, 3 mystics. Or you can skip the tarot and keep the hull las if you like.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





What about just taking the lord with hood, tarot, and 3 mystics? It costs 98 points and I won't be tempted to try and shoot with him. I like the idea of mystics giving me out of turn shots at deep striking units as they are coming down.

That leaves 13 points back, still a long ways off of getting to 40.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





My only issue with the list is the number of men that you're bringing to the table. I mean, I pack as many if not more men into my mechanized army than you've got in this drop army. Not good.

In order to get more men, I'd recommend dropping the grey knight and the chimera from the AF squad, along with the FA sentinel, which would net you ~250 points. From there, you can buy 2 more las/plas squads and a command squad. If you must get a hood in there, I'd take an Inquisitor lord w/hood, 2 mystics and a familiar. That's it. It runs 83 or so points and gets you a scoring unit with the ever-needed hood.

I just noticed that your command has a chimera and a sentinel...nononononononono! The command with the chimera should be hiding behind the russ until it explodes, or behind area terrain providing a nice big LD bubble. Also, you need to find points for ID. You just do. Those points allow you to get your inquisitor and another unit of hardened vets. If you can find the points, I'd take improved comms on the bassalisk.

I think you're putting the chimeras in there for mobility, no? If you, you really shouldn't as dropping will get you where you need to be without having to spend 100 points on an AV12 pillbox.

Finally, you might want to consider light infantry. I know that it's a big change from the almost-mech thing that you've got going atm, but it ensures you have LOS to everything and gives you a HUGE advantage on the 1st turn. Oh, you also should replace the las cannon on the russ with a heavy bolter.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Thanks for your comments but it is way to late to change the list that much even if I wanted to.

This is mech guard without the mech doctrine.  I found it too ristrictive in building the army.  At the minimum you had to include 4 chimeras.  I don't think or play this army as a drop army.  Its really a mech army with deep strike capable units, namely the vet squads.

I response to your comments, what's wrong with the command HQ squad taking a chimera? They don't have to start in it, they can still hide in the back and provide LD. I don't think you can always count on dropping to get to where you need to go, what happens in a mission without deep strike?

I played with ID for a long time, in about 30 games, I've never had to use it. So I dropped it to save points.

The number of AV 12 vehicles I have along with the 2 AV14 tanks have worked out so far. They provide a large amount of firepower balanced with a good deal of mobility and survivability. 2 chimeras and 2 hellhounds are a good match.

I know the reasoning for the lascannon vs the heavy bolter on the russ hull. I know that most on dakka view the lascannon as out of place on the russ, but I like it with the lascannon. There was a thread a long time ago that I started discussing the use of the Russ and its configurations, in the end I still decided to stick with this configuration.

My only concern regarding the army is the grey knight and the inclusion of the psychic hood. I've decided to go with an inquisitor lord with mystics instead.

I've had very good success with the current version of the army.  In the 30 odd games I've played, I've only lost a handful of times.  Although that could very well be related to the skill of players in my local area.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I agree with ether dude on his points if you want to make the list an all drop guard. You'd definately need more bodies. WIth all drop the chimeras would be a really bad inclusion as they suck off too many points that you'd need for a reasonable number of bodies.

If you want the list to be heavy mech and only have portions of dropping then I'd drop the sentinels. I assume you plan on dropping them to hit side armor or something along those lines. Even if you want to run them along with your tanks and just harass flanks and stuff with the scout move I think the points could be better spent. Personally I'd drop them both for another vet squad. Probably with plasma, so then you'd have two with plasma and one with melta. With only two squads of dropping troops, even with improved comms, you might have troubles getting a squad to drop in when you want one. Three squads will make this much smoother and I think cause more damage for their points than the sentinels will.

Another option is the attached spec weapons squads off the HQ. Two flamers and a demo charge are a nice dropping unit. I think they're 63 points for the two flamers and the demo charge? Dont have the codex on me right now but I remember them being cheaper than vets and the demo charge is always a fun option. If you want more drop troops I'd fill the elites section with vets then think about spec weapons with flamers and demo before turning to dropping sentinels. Personally I've just have better luck with demo charges, even though they are more random than the sentinels.

Back to your question about the knight vs inq. I really think the inq will serve you better. Plus you can have some really great modelling opportunities for an inq and his retinue. I'd go with three mystics if you're not giving him a weapon as they are cheaper than familiars, right?

I'm not sure on running him with no gun. He's quite expensive as is, and you'd be paying all those points to just stop fear and shoot at deep strikers. For only 20 or 30 points you can give him a psycannon which I think takes advantage of his abilities a bit better. Sure he's more expensive, but you're already paying for a multi-wound BS 4 character with a 3+ save.

He's not going to be that much of a target even if you give him a gun if you're concerned about that. Against non drop armies they wont bother shooting him if he's got no gun and even with a psycannon he's a pretty small target that still has 3 ablative wounds with the mystics and a decent save. Full drop armies might try and shoot him so their other troops can get in closer, but you get to shoot them first. Plus then he saves some more expensive units from their firepower. Not really sure what I'm arguing here. I guess I'm just saying that if you dont give him a gun in lots of games he wont have anything to do, aka against non dropping armies. So maybe rethink the psycannon. BS 4. Couple shots. Not bad if you're already buying the inq and mystics for other reasons.

I'll also plug the tarot again. For the price of a marine it's a great buy. Normally it's expensive because you've got to take an inq to get it, but you're already buying one anyways. Why would you not want a reroll for that cheap? I mean, if we're taking the lord to stop fear and dropping stuff he's really becoming an anti drop swiss army knife. He's got the hood for the powers, mystics for shooting, and having a much better chance of going second against drop armies is well worth the points. If you do win the roll of the tarot you just bought yourself a whole extra turn essentially.

I understand the urge to keep him cheap. He's already pricey though if you want the hood that bad just because you need the HQ inq for the LD and the cheapo elite version wont work. But if you're already buying him think about the tarot and psycannon. They are much cheaper options if the inq is now essentially free and both good investements if you can get the points imho.

Alternatively, you can go with the elite inq and mystics if you are willing to skip the hood. Much cheaper, 32 points for inq w/ 2 mystics. Still have the same options for tarot and psycannon.

Hopefully that helps you decide the most cost effective solution to your problems.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Army Lists
Go to: