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Made in au
Drone without a Controller




Perth, Australia

First up. Apologies for reserecting ancient topic.....

I did do a search on the forums and found:

A) many discussions about LOS in general

B) at least several discussions about setinel combat specifically.

But none of these discussions seem to reveal a general concensus.

At the risk of starting a mass argument......
Perhaps people would give opinions about how the following example would be played at their local gaming spot?

2 Imp Guard setinels locked in combat with 4 or 5 ork warbikes. The setinels are standing side by side approx 4" apart - Legal coherency distance. The warbikes are spread in a line between the setinels and out to the sides.....

Leman russ behind the setinels is ruled as not able to take a shot over the combat at the killer kans standing behind the bikes. This despite a LOS that gives an almost unrestricted view of the Kans from a models eye view....(over 2 of the bikes)

I guess this situation comes under combat blocking LOS. Is it correct to play the entire combat front as level 3 when  LOS  is so easily drawn and  only a fraction of the combatants are actually  size 3?

Should point out, I was just an observer in the game and the 2 players were happy to play it that way. Without trying to cause problems, I did suggest that the Imp Guard player was probably a bit hard done by. But it did seem to be RAW??

"Tau - the close combat army"
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




That is the way it reads to me. My understanding that the melee is a big swirling mess, and so the sentinels would be moving around the combat area.
   
Made in be
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets



Right behind you...

Yeah, I agree with coredump and the players of the game.  Despite the physical location of the Sentinels on the tabletop, GW has said the CC is considered to be a swirling melee with no LOS through possible (although I think certain situations of elevated position may allow it).

Armies in my closet:  
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


I Agree. Close combats block line of sight up to the height characteristic of the models involved. Since the Sentinels are size 3, the combat blocks line of sight over it completely.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




Between the Sun and the Sky

Also, to add to that already said, creatures such as Hormagaunts and similarly driven and zealous individuals may find it appropriate to jump or climb upon whatever they may find (dead bodies, rocks, etc.) to attack their higher-located adversaries. In other words, the entire combat is, yes, size 3.

Catch me if you can.
 
   
Made in au
Drone without a Controller




Perth, Australia

Thanks Everyone.

Agree with all that has been suggested. (This would have to be a first for me).

But admit to being a little incredulous about this happening.

Would the same thing occur if the vehicle being assaulted did not have a weapon skill?
ie. was some sort of non skimming tank?

Some might argue that the combatants are not locked in combat per se, so therefore the leman russ could take a shot at the can. (persumably it would count as obscured).

When it comes to seeking cover I know what I would rather be hiding behind. Give me a tank over a setinel any day.

"Tau - the close combat army"
 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA


Vehicles without a WS never get locked in combat therefore the rules for close combats blocking LOS would not apply to them.

While you are right that a tank blocks more physical line of sight than a sentinel what the rule represents (IMO) is that vehicles with a WS get locked into combats like infantry and the whole combat is swirling around in a big mess; it is just too hard for anyone to shoot through the whole thing.

On the other hand infantry assaulting vehicles without a WS is a pretty straightforward affair: They go running up to the vehicle screaming, shooting and clubbing it. They either blow it up or it drives away, the vehicle itself wouldn't do much 'swirling' in the combat.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
 
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