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After eight years of Black Templars and three years of Imperial Guard, I'm beginning to explore new possibilities for army expansion. I've had my moments as a horde army commander with the Guard, as a CC army commander with the Templars, but now I'd like to try something that is in even smaller numbers than Space Marines. I considered Demonhunters, but wasn't interested in another CC-heavy army. I looked into Godzilla nids, but I'm not much of a fan for non-Imperial, save for the Tau.

And then I happened upon Deathwing.

The idea of Terminators as basic troops intrigues me, but brings to question their current effectiveness as an army. I know almost nothing about them, but would like to know more before picking up the DA codex and perusing through the Deathwing Section. I've heard that they can pack quite a punch, but that their small numbers gives them a bit of a glass jaw.

Any and all insight into the playing style, competetiveness, and general effectiveness of a Deathwing army is much appreciated. I'm not near a hobby store, so it will be a while before I can take a look at the codex itself. Thanks again.

CK

@CoK:

Deathwing is generally looked down upon with the latest codex release. For starters they lose the second heavy weapon, so no more 2 Asscans per unit. I want to say they are a bit more expensive than vanilla marines...

Generally the codex was looked down upon, however I think that a mixture of Raven and deathwing would be really cool...But I think the codex really shines with mech Marines...I have put together a decent mech marine list using the new DA codex.

The issue with the deathwing as troops is that you have to take the special character Belial, who's not bad, but he's not Lysander as well. Alot of people will tell you to build a Lysander 1st and 10 list, which is Lysander with Terminator retinue, a librarian in term armor with retinue and 2 small scout squads with teleport homers and as many terminators you can fit in depending on your point level.

If I were to use the DA codex, I'd go with something like this:

Belial with Lightning Claws - 130pts
Terminator Squad with AC, Company Banner - 270pts (This squad would be CC armed to take advantage of the banner)

Troops:
Terminator Squad with AC - 245pts

Same as above - 245pts

Same as above - 245pts

Fast Attack:
Ravenwing bike squad w/meltabombs - 125pts

same as above - 125pts

This leaves you 115pts short of 1500, so you could go with a Landspeeder for table quarter grabbing...

The reason I'd go with bikes is that in the DA codex, they all are quiped with Teleport homers and DA's are allowed to deep strike half of the total amount of terminator squads in the army first turn guarenteed! So I would drop in 2 squads, turbo boost the bikes and try to summon the rest of the gang. Sort of like a demon bomb, but not as good.

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Thanks,
Chappy P!

ok i can chime in on this

i played DW for many years and hade a blast-30 terminators led by a libby and a couple fire support dreads-small elite army that was hard to kill and took skill to play......then the new dex came out

 

things they did that were good-

.deathwing assault-kinda nifty not having to roll for your half your termi squads when they deep strike in on turn 1, if you can use them somewhere

.made them fearless so no more pinning checks

.mixed assault and shooty terminator squads

 

and thats about it

 

now for the bad-

-limted 5 man squads-no survivability

-almost no waregear

-a lackluster named character as a mandatory HQ

-no transport options of any kind-unless you field costly and fragile sqauds of RW bikes with thier built in homes, or some land raider points sink in the heavy support slots

-1 heavy weapon-ok you want to limit the asssault cannon, it would be great to make it a 0-1 per squad so it doesn't  hurt the other weapons options. but thats not what they did.

-no vetran skills-WTF? the first copany of the first founded legion have no skills?

 

as you may have noticed i am not happy with the nw dex, it killed my DW, that being said-

can it still win?

yes, still viable but far more difficult with a pure list now.

the new dex was written in such a way as to encourage combined arms-1 army with add ons(DW/RW) as opposed to 1 chapte, 3 seperate armies.  and if the new BA dex is any indication that they are continuing the tone dwon campaing on marines then i expect most termi armies will get similar rules.

 

my personal take on terminator armies-do DW with allies , go ahead and take belial and 2 termi squads to fill out your mandatory HQ/2 troops and then fill up on grey knight terminator allies and a second HQ/brother captain so you can do variable squad size, keep both your (better) CC and shooting ability and have accces to all the GKTs nifty wargear options.

as for the hybrid DW/RW armies

thats what i run because i managed to make something of what was leftover after they raped my old DW and RW armies.

it does ok, its points expensive and fragile, but it is very fluffy

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i112/mughi3/multi-wing.jpg

 

 

 

 

I admit, I don't have any real experience running DW, but I'm putting together a straight up terminator army that consists of Belial, a chappy or librarian, and 35 terminators with whatever options I can afford. On paper it looks good to me, and isn't costing me anything beyond the time I take to paint Grey Knights on a one to one basis for a guy that works at my FLGS(Already more than halfway there with what he's paid me in figs already!). I figure if it doesn't work out, I can always trade out the termies I decide not to use to other people for the bugs I'm working on  after I finish up my DW.

I must disagree with alot of the comments here, Deathwing was not killed, or raped as so many put it. Deathwing has always been an odd list and to be honest overpowered, and frankly assault cannons should have been yanked from the damn weapon lists instead of made into one of the best weapons in the game, with the new codex what has been done is that the Deathwing now is more balanced towards a mix of shooting and assault.

Now that I am done ranting, I would recommend something similar to that pointed out by Mughi. Oh and I would like to point out that you round up for the number of squads that deepstrike in.

Belial with Terminator Squad with AC, Company Banner - 270pts (This squad would be CC armed to take advantage of the banner)

Brother Captain (GK HQ)

Deathwing Terminators with a Heavy Flamer, 1 Thunder Hammer, and 3 pairs of Lightning Claws.

Deathwing Terminators with a Heavy Flamer, 1 Thunder Hammer, and 3 pairs of Lightning Claws.

Deathwing Terminators with a Cyclone Missile Launcher, 1 Thunder Hammer, and 3 pairs of Lightning Claws.

Grey Knight Terminator Squad with 3 Psycannons (one on leader)

1 x 6 Ravenwing Bikes with Melta-Bombs, Melta Guns, and an Attack Bike with a Multi-Melta (both the attack bike and the other 3 bikes should seperate)

1 x 6 Ravenwing Bikes with Melta-Bombs, Plasma Guns, and an Attack Bike with a Heavy Bolter (both the attack bike and the other 3 bikes should seperate)

This list will give you alot of choices on deployment, and will take advantage of the ravenwing scout rule, and their combat squads, and the 1st turn deepstrike.

The 6 seperate units you will deploy, and then scout with will give your opponent fits if he goes first, and if he doesn't you will be able to drop 3 terminator squads with a mix of weapons designed to harm him the most.

I think while deathwing have lost some of their hitting power and survivability, they have become much more versitile. I like the deathwing army that includes devestators , which can give the army a much needed punch from shooting. Plus the new librarian psychic powers are pretty good.

Well there are Deathwing heavy lists which include things like predators and devastator squads. . .

. . . and there are "Pure" Deathwing lists, which include only the traditional Deathwing units of Terminators, Land Raiders, and Dreadnoughts.

A "Deathwing Heavy" list is probably the stronger of the two. . . but I've been running a Pure Deathwing list with an emphasis on heavy armor units. . . and have actually been doing quite well! (8-0, 1 tournament champion win so far).

So, the list IS viable from a competitive standpoint, and it is certainly a lot of fun to play! I would highly recommend it.

Thanks for the resposes, all. I've been away for a while, and hadn't been able to check back on this thread until now. It might be some time before I am able to begin a deathwing army, but I'll be sure to keep y'all posted.

CK

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.  I played a doublewing (deathwing/ravenwing) force at the LVGT.  I didn't do as well as I thought (1-3-1) but did finish in the top half of the field.  This was the only marine army that I have played.  It consisted of:

Beliel

Chappy in termie armor

Termie squad w/ banner, apothocary, th/ss, hvy flamer, 1 lc

Termie squad w/ donkey cannon, 2 lc

Termie squad w/ donkey cannon, 2 lc

6 ravenwing bikes, hvy bolter attack bike, ls tornado

ls tornado

dread w/ donkey cannon & ml in drop pod

The army worked very well and if I would have play tested it before the GT, I probably would have done better.  I was way to passive with my force.  I think that you need to be bolder with an army such as this.  I kept my deepstriking safe and didn't scout with my bikes.  I do believe that the lack of terrain hindered me greatly since my heavy weapons were limited in range and was not able to hide.  Looking back, I might have dropped the speeders and worked something out where I could have added in another dread w/ lc & ml for some extra anti-tank.

I do think that combining deathwing with vehicles or heavy weapons is a very good pairing.  A couple of predators w/ lc are the way to go.  If you want to stick to the deathwing theme, you can always add in a couple of land raiders, but as we all know, they are fire magnets.