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Question for the Tau players.  How effective do you think a pure infantry tau army would be?  I know that tau can cram a lot of firepower onto their crisis and broadside suits to deal with an opponent's vehicles.  But how much am I giving up by not using vehicles?  I know mobility is going to be a problem (can't think of a way around that one), however I plan on having my army put a lot of lead (plasma?) downrange to discourage assault.  I'm also figuring in a couple units of kroot for counter-charging the inevitable stragglers.  I'm just looking for some advice on the pro's and con's of having a 1500 to 2000 pt. army designed around pure infantry.

You can have the core of your army still be infantry with a light mix of vehicles. Personally, I think that the main strength of Tau lies in the mobility but that's just a personal opinion. The 30" Str 5 weapons on the average trooper are beastly. The best mix of units to compliment 6x 12 man Fire Warrior teams are:
1) Broadsides. Can't have a stand and shoot force without them. I recomend ASS so that you can maneuver a bit around terrain. Just personal preference.
2) Pathfinders. Even though they come with a required devilfish, you can use it as a throw away vehicle to stop charges. The marker lights are a must when you have so many weapons firing. +1 BS on a FW team or a Broadside team at the right time can win games.
3) Paranah. If you aren't taking any heavier vehicles, these are almost required. Think of them as cheap Fusion gun delivery systems.
4) Suicide Suits. Strap 2 fusion guns or a Missle Pod and a fusion on a crisis, DS them and go to town on armor. I equip mine with 2 fusion and a shield generator. They soak up quite a bit of fire when they touch down. They are pretty expensive for a suicide squad but sometimes you really really need that hit against rear armor on a LR etc. These aren't nearly as much a main-stay of the list as the above 3 units are, but they can help in a pinch.
5) Counter Charge. The worst case scenario with foot tau is getting charged. I throw a unit of kroot near whatever assault unit looks like it will get to my lines first, right behind my gun line. Make your own decision about CC but I get mighty scared when I see anything near my lines.

Giving up on vehicles will not hurt. Just don't spend more than 300pts in fire warriors and you will do fine (make sure points are spent in broadsides and crisis, lots of crisis).

This may sound weird to the experienced vet, but in the end Tau vehicles are not that special.

Using hammerheads will result in a stronger list, but they are not necessary.

Make sure you throw around some defensive bonuses if you take lots of suits. Those anit-tank units will be pointed at your suits at every oportunity they have. Shield drones are the best but one shield generator will do in a pinch.

Farsight's the best foot Tau list.

I don't know if I agree about that. Sure, farsight is badass, but keeping out ethereals, kroot, more than 1 unit of broadsides and more than one unit of pirahnas is pretty gimpy in anything more than 1850.

You can just keep buying crisis suits with shield drones, which to add into Farsight is a great buy. You get enough Crisis suit squads full of drones and you wind up kind of like a bunch of monstrous creatures. Tauzilla? Hurr.

I'm pretty sure Farsight comes out tops up to 2500 (when you run out of crisis suit slots), possibly even better than Mechanized until the advent of the Lash.

Though even the Lash is not that scary on demon princes given the obscene number of plasma rifles Farsight's list is going to have. Lash sorcerers will suck though.

Posted By onlainari on 09/14/2007 9:08 AM
Giving up on vehicles will not hurt. Just don't spend more than 300pts in fire warriors and you will do fine (make sure points are spent in broadsides and crisis, lots of crisis).

This may sound weird to the experienced vet, but in the end Tau vehicles are not that special.

Using hammerheads will result in a stronger list, but they are not necessary.

as a vet tau player through 2 editions i could not disagree more

in 4th ed footslogging tau=dead tau

vehicles and suits are what make a tau army competative.

if your looking for a strong list you need to play to your armies strengths. tau are good at moble firepower, moving and shooting is key.

if you want footslogging play IG where you can get heavy weapons in the squads, better LD and cover save bonus's

the problem with infantry tau is that they have limitations which are balanced out by thier mobility. if you go foot sloggin horde style you will get hit by cover save ignoring weapons your S5 FW pulse carbine weapons can't hurt, fast or DSing unis will get to you and get you into CC, your WS is a joke as is your intiative and your only T3

 

just some examples

in 3rd ED at an RTT i fought an infantry heavy tau army with my old ravenwing. i started with 27 models (17 bikes, 10 land speeders) he had 40+ fire warriors plus a fish, a couple broadsides a hammerhead a crisis suit commander and a full  stealth suit team. with my mobility and his lack there of he couldn't get away from me. i also out-shot him with more heavy weapon shots. at the end of the game he had his fish, a hammerhead minus main guns, 2 shield drones and a wounded crisis suit commander left on the table.

 

recently in 4th we did a 2 on 2 battle

2 tau armies

mine fully mechanized(5 fish with troops inside, 3 hammerheads and 1 crisis suit commander) and another with mostly foot troops, a criris team, a braodside team, a hammerhead and a squad of pirahanas

VS

2 emperors children forces with lots of sonic weapons, demonettes, bikes etc...

at the end of the game the mostly foot slogging tau army was down to the hammerhead, and a pirahana. i on the otherhand lost 2 fish and 1 squad of pathfinders.

the lesson-mobility is the key to a tau army, while it is possible to win without it, it is a sevre handicap to play it that way.

 

Right now my basic army strategy is to have two groups of broadsides (2-3 a piece + shield drones) in either either corner so they can take out vehicles hiding in corners and to blast any troops that stray into the middle of the table. Having the broadsides in the corners should also shield them from some of the return fire as they will only ever be able to be seem by part of my opponent's army. Then I will have 2 groups of firewarriors to hold the center with a unit of kroot to charge/counter-charge as necessary. The mobile component of my army is going to be 1 unit of firewarriors and 2 units of crisis suits. However I think I'm gonna have to break down and either a pirhana or a devilfish or two. I'm undecided about stealth suits and sniper drones, not sure what I'm gonna be facing.

Posted By Arcoslippy on 09/16/2007 1:01 AM
Right now my basic army strategy is to have two groups of broadsides (2-3 a piece + shield drones) in either either corner so they can take out vehicles hiding in corners and to blast any troops that stray into the middle of the table. Having the broadsides in the corners should also shield them from some of the return fire as they will only ever be able to be seem by part of my opponent's army. Then I will have 2 groups of firewarriors to hold the center with a unit of kroot to charge/counter-charge as necessary. The mobile component of my army is going to be 1 unit of firewarriors and 2 units of crisis suits. However I think I'm gonna have to break down and either a pirhana or a devilfish or two. I'm undecided about stealth suits and sniper drones, not sure what I'm gonna be facing.

just my $.02

instead of trying to build specific counter lists,  it is best to build a single well rounded take all comers list.  especialy if you ever play tournament/league environment games.

remember where your strengths and weaknesses are and try to find a balance that fits your play style.

 

How useful are stealth suits and sniper drones? I've heard of some people swearing by them and others swearing off them.

Stealth suits are OK but they take up valuable crisis suit space, so I say skip them mostly.

The 3 stealths with 6 gun drones squad is kinda nice though.

Posted By Arcoslippy on 09/19/2007 4:57 AM
How useful are stealth suits and sniper drones? I've heard of some people swearing by them and others swearing off them.

im in the swear off them camp

stealth have to get way to darn close which is usually bad for tau. they also have limited weapons options

 

also because sniper drone teams cannot move and shoot or hold objectives with only 3 shots per unit i tend to avoid them as well.

the only thing in a tau army i avoid more than those 2 units is vespid.

It's hard to say what stealth suits are even supposed to be used for. Cheap crisis suits maybe? Their main weapon is anti-horde, but they can be upgraded to an anti-tank weapon. They are some kind of hybrid between fire-warriors and suits, but I just can think of where either of those alternatives wouldn't be better. I'm willing to write it off as an unfocused unit and take more Crisis suits or fire-warriors in its place. As a side note, if my commander could deep-strike with the stealth suits, I'd definatly take a unit of them. The cheap burst cannons compliment the fragmentation/cyclic ion pretty well. But as I can't, I'll just stick with his 2 bodyguards with TL burst and shield drones.

I'm not a Tau player, nor have I seen many Stealth Suits in action, but it seems strange to call them unfocussed simply because they can take an AT weapon. If you can just exercise self-control in not taking that option, they are perfectly focussed. You might as well call Dark Reapers unfocussed because their Exarch can get a shuriken cannon!

Static Tau work when you fill up the HS slots, take a Shas'o with C&C node, and Pathfinders. hism akes sure your shooting works. You need those broadsides and you need enough that you can afford to lose a few. I would take two teams of them, and then fill up with sniper drones.
A wall of kroot helps, but can be worked without. I do find that static Tau can make better use of an Ethereal than a mobile list, but an Ethereal is always a gamble anyway.

However apart from model count you dont really gain much by static Tau, and it can be risky. The only de factounit advantage you have is the ability to take a 14 strong team. That is twelve Fire Warriors including a Shas'ui and two gun drones. The gun drones just add to the squad size, and are the first to be removed as casualties. They are worth it in my opinion, especially because carbines are rarely used (with good reason) but the pinning test can cause can save you much trouble - from time to time. You need the Shas'ui anyway because Ld7 is too risky.

Finally dont expect anyyhing Tau do to 'discourage assault' except by not being in range. Ultimately for that you need mobility.

Over 1700 points, Shadowsun becomes the most important model in a static list.

and that is why static tau fail. a 30" S5 gun is nice, unfortunately it isn't as nice as a las cannon, plasma gun  or an auto cannon when your facing down that loaded land raider, flyrant, wraithlord etc...

aside from other tau or necron line troops almost every army has fast assault based units that will get to you.  once they do they will either whipe out the tau unit or tie it up so that it doesn't do its job(shooting). the only way to counter that is to be mobile enough to get away from it.

I haven't been keeping up with Tau innovations lately, but I remember a few years back when Stealth Suits were the mack-daddy elite choice for a Tau army.  What's caused this change? 

Man, where's Torgoch?

Stealthsuits are still extremely viable, just as viable as before. They just take a player with a lot of talent to work.

If you take that talent and give them crisis suits instead, there's no real boost to power level. However, you take a beginner, there will be a massive difference in power level between stealths and crisis (crisis are much easier).

Finally, crisis suits can kill falcons, TMC's, and obliterators.

I take 1 unit of stealths because I can use them properly, they never die, they always score if there in an objective, thus they are valuable. They do not however kill stuff (except last game against guard ).

Posted By Iorek on 09/21/2007 4:29 AM
I haven't been keeping up with Tau innovations lately, but I remember a few years back when Stealth Suits were the mack-daddy elite choice for a Tau army.  What's caused this change? 

Man, where's Torgoch?

the main reason is range and weapons options. both crisis and stealth have access to the armory for systems and both a full squad of suits equals out to 6 wounds. both also get the assault jump move.

the real difference is in the fact that stealth are limited to a burst cannon with 18" range and up to 3 fussion guns with a 12" range. the fussion gun is basicaly a melta which is nice but if your close enough to use it and then jump away 6"  if you failed to kill the units(s) you were after your so close that your stealth isn't likely to save you from getting shot to pieces after your opponant makes thier moves. and any fast unit has the range to get to you for assaults. ive eatem many a stealth unit either from shooting or assaulting it with my bikes.

with a crisis suit you have a range advantage. i play with the fireknife variant(missle pod/plasma rifle) and i can hop out and blast away with 2 S7 shots and a S6 plasma shot from 24" away and then jump away another 6" . nothing is shooting me unless it is indirect fire, in a drop pod or a fast moving skimmer or bike that manages to line up a shot on me.

and even a nid player would be hard pressed to make an assault move when i am effectively 30" away behind terrain.

 

granted some peoiple still like stealths but in my experience crisis suits perform better.and survive better.

The reason you take stealths is due to terrain. You normally have enough terrain in your DZ to hide two crisis teams and your HQs but probably not enough to hide a third elite slot with crisis in it. Thats where stealths come in. Due to their infiltrate, stealth and shorter range, they operate further forward and as such will use different terrain to JSJ behind.

I think at the end of the day its down to a personal preference. I'd prefer a bit more variety than taking three identical elite slots and when i play that one guard player once in my life, the stealths will be worth it!

Stealths need the corrdct numbers. One team only - too many and you are competing for tghe available cover and will lack the longer ranged crisis. The mediocre burst cannon armed stealth suit is the best Meq killer point for point of all the battlesuits, at 10pts ashot its easy to forgive the fact that it doesnt ignore armour. Stealth suits dont look it but they are more cost effective at killing Meq than Fireknife over 12".

I deploy my team either as four suits (optimum efficiency), or six suits with team leader two drones and bondibng knife (to get the most out of a sibngle Elites slot). I have XV15's and have no desire to upgrade, but even if I did burst cannon on every suit.

If i want to close in anti-tank I prefer suicide gun drone squadrons shooting rear armour. I like to play by the background so drones are the only Tau unit I callously throw away. They are reasonably good at the job too, 5+ reroll, then 5+ to damage, excepting only Land Raiders and Monoliths. Both get the full attention of my railguns instead.